Failed First Habitation Check - All Because Lithium Battery Not in a Box!

[daash]

I despair at the knowledge of "dealer experts" and will be taking my vehicle elsewhere for its hab check. Mine failed because the lithium battery was not housed in a box. It is, however, securely strapped in with a steel, battery retaining clamp. The ignorance of dealers leads me to despair.
Is anyone aware of any authority who publicly issue guidelines for lithium? I've checked the NCC website but can find nothing in relation to the issue.
Cheers all.

 

[Tombola]

I thought lith ion had more energy per kg that Lith iron. ?

Edited

 

[GMLS]

Worth having gas system checked by approved company

Agree but unless something has been disturbed, personally I'm comfortable using one of these

 

[eddie]

Just for the record, the OP said that his 1st habitation check had failed as his LiFePO4 battery wasn’t in a battery box. I said is ‘had’ to be in a battery box in case his lithium battery ‘leaked acid’ which obviously tongue in check as Lithium batteries do not have acid.

Since some posts have muddied the waters with differing Lithium chemistry types.

LiFePO4 batteries are inherently safe and unlike Lithium ION batteries do not pose a fire risk, and neither type will leak acid.

If anyone is told a LiFePO4 ’has’ to be in a battery box, I suggest you refer the statement to your supplying dealer.

 

[eddie]

I thought lith ion had more energy per kg that Lith iron. ?

Edited

There is a balance of energy delivered over safety. Gromett really is the expert

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[Mzracer]

yes

See my post above.

I have never used ION in posts until no 89 when I asked if you if I used that word at all, are you mistaking this for someone else? I know what Fe is and I know that LiFe is very well used instead of LiFePO4 in other leisure sectors.

 

[eddie]

I am 100% sure. Lithium batteries both LiPo (Lithium Polymer) and LiFe (Lithium Iron) do not care which way up they are.

Lithium ION is not Lithium Iron which is LiFePO4 used in motorhomes

 

[Mzracer]

Lithium ION is not Lithium Iron which is LiFePO4 used in motorhomes

Exactly I said Iron not ION

 

[eddie]

Exactly I said Iron not ION

You still have it wrong, but I think your heart is in the right place despite me being a fool

Lithium ION and Lithium Iron are different, you quoted “I am 100% sure. Lithium batteries both LiPo (Lithium Polymer) and LiFe (Lithium Iron) do not care which way up they are”

’Iron‘ is LiFePO4” the other type is Lithium ION not Iron which is LiFePO4

I really think if you re-read the whole thread properly, you’ll see that my posts were taking the piss out of the dealer that failed the hab check.

And my gentle ‘pushes’ in the rules direction we’re trying to keep you onside as I get that you were trying to help. Regarding the forum owner, he has one rule be nice, no name calling as he simply bans people who are rude or call people names.

So I’ll start again, I’m Eddie, you seem a decent bloke, we could be forum buddies

 

[Gaston aires]

Here's a photo of my install. I'm going to shorten the clamp retainers today.

View attachment 728967

This is way too tidy to pass a test. Real installations look like a storks nest.

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[Mzracer]

So I’ll start again, I’m Eddie

I am Barrie. Thanks for the intro.

 

[Gromett]

There is a balance of energy delivered over safety. Gromett really is the expert

I am no expert sorry. But I can give info as I understand it.

All Lithium batteries as far as I am aware are Lithium Ion batteries. In that they all use Ions of lithium as a charge carrier.
An ion is an atom or group of atoms with a positive or negative charge.

There are different chemistries for Lithium batteries. Some using Iron, Zinc, Nickel, Cobalt and others in varying combinations.
There is also different electrolytes. The liquid type most will be familiar with and the polymer types that I have most seen in remote controlled cars and planes.
There are different cathode and anode materials. Graphite and Silicon being the most common for anodes as far as I am aware. and ironphosphate, nickel, cobalt most common for the cathodes.

In conclusion. All lithium batteries are Ion batteries.
A lithium polymer battery should actually be called a lithium Ion Polymer battery.
A LiFePO4 battery is still a Lithium Ion battery and is generally non flamable and very rugged but has a lower energy density although this has dramatically improved over the last 10 years.
Other popular chemistries are NMC (Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide) LiNiMnCoO2 and NCA (Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide)

I believe NMC is what is used for long range cars and LiFePO4 for cheaper shorter range ones.

BUT. They are All Lithium Ion Batteries. Just varying chemistry, electrolyte, cathode and anode materials.

I have posted this video a few times before. It really is well worth a watch for anyone who is interested in the subject.

 

[JJ]

Thank goodness some new members of Fun "wade" into a "discussion" before knowing much about the Funsters involved.

It leads to such an amusing thread!

Thanks Folks

JJ

 

[Mzracer]

Thank goodness some new members of Fun "wade" into a "discussion" before knowing much about the Funsters involved.

It leads to such an amusing thread!

Thanks Folks

JJ

No problem it is a pleasure.

All I do is to try and help people, said Funster has an unusual sense of humour and that clearly caught me off guard, I just answered a point honestly and openly without looking back at his experience and posting, why would I do a forensic investigation on anyone's past, I am not here for that. And nothing I said was wrong, the bun fight was over ION which I had never said.

If you were to extract the messages which you mention and read them with no knowledge of either person involved then you would 100% see one forum member (new chap) trying to help another very established member.

All part of the rich tapestries of life.

 

[JJ]

No problem it is a pleasure.

All I do is to try and help people, said Funster has an unusual sense of humour and that clearly caught me off guard, I just answered a point honestly and openly without looking back at his experience and posting, why would I do a forensic investigation on anyone's past, I am not here for that. And nothing I said was wrong, the bun fight was over ION which I had never said.

If you were to extract the messages which you mention and read them with no knowledge of either person involved then you would 100% see one forum member (new chap) trying to help another very established member.

All part of the rich tapestries of life.

Well at least you know you are right!

Call me a coward or a woozy but I would never ever challenge Mr Eddie VanBitz (or any of his family) on the subject of motorhome electricity systems.

However... Egg Chasing and Big Blokes knocking each other down... that is a different kettle of fish!

JJ

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[Mzracer]

Call me a coward or a woozy

No I have done with calling people names on here!! JJ will be what I call you.

 

[Coolcats]

If you are really concerned and the tester maintains it does not British standard and will not budge I would simply print a copy of the response from ncc and attach it to the report with a note added at their comment to see attached.

Alternatively ask the people who installed it to verify that it meets the standard required.

Personally I would not be concerned move on and don’t use them again for hab checks.

I would ask for the relevant UKCA or CE standard regarding storage of lithium in a vehicle so you can read more on what is required if no such standard exists you could refer them to trading standards as it could be assumed they are trying to obtain money (fitting a battery box) under false pretences.

 

[autorouter]

Iron!

Lithium ION is a completely different beast!

All lithium batteries are Lithium Ion. An ion is an atom that has lost or gained an electron, and is charged. In a lithium battery, electric current flows because the lithium ions move.

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are a type of Lithium ion battery that contains Iron ions and Phosphate ions. It's not helpful to call a Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) battery a 'lithium iron' battery because of the potential for confusion with the more general term 'lithium ion'.

Edit: I didn't notice, Gromett has already said this.

 

[eddie]

All lithium batteries are Lithium Ion. An ion is an atom that has lost or gained an electron, and is charged. In a lithium battery, electric current flows because the lithium ions move.

Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are a type of Lithium ion battery that contains Iron ions and Phosphate ions. It's not helpful to call a Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) battery a 'lithium iron' battery because of the potential for confusion with the more general term 'lithium ion'.

Edit: I didn't notice, Gromett has already said this.

Exactly ! Which was the point being misunderstood

 

[Basildog]

Agree but unless something has been disturbed, personally I'm comfortable using one of these

Whilst a Gas Leak Detector is a useful bit of kit to have in your tool box it’s not a substitute for a proper gas tightness test.

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[richssouthuk]

Here's a photo of my install. I'm going to shorten the clamp retainers today.

View attachment 728967

I love this would be interested in chatting to you more about your install as I am looking to do the same, I have a 460AH Fogstar battery which will obviously not fir into the manufactured battery recess and a Victron MPPT to install with inverter. Looks like a tidy job, I have a HAB check coming up so may leave it till afterwards to do my install.