Failed First Habitation Check - All Because Lithium Battery Not in a Box!

daash · Mar 17, 2023

I despair at the knowledge of "dealer experts" and will be taking my vehicle elsewhere for its hab check. Mine failed because the lithium battery was not housed in a box. It is, however, securely strapped in with a steel, battery retaining clamp. The ignorance of dealers leads me to despair.
Is anyone aware of any authority who publicly issue guidelines for lithium? I've checked the NCC website but can find nothing in relation to the issue.
Cheers all.

Basildog · Mar 19, 2023

Riverbankannie said:
I have never had a hab check on a PVC. I check around the windows and vents myself and , as others have said, if it works, I can put in my own tick. I will pay for routine servicing and gas tank test when the time comes.

I would check your own gas tank annually and touch up any stone chips / paint damage , at the very minimum.

Riverbankannie · Mar 19, 2023

Basildog said:
I would check your own gas tank annually and touch up any stone chips / paint damage , at the very minimum.

Yes, I usually slide underneath at least once a year, might have to wait a bit for my lumber fracture to heal this year though

hja · Mar 19, 2023

Am I missing something here? Globe car pvc. Original battery wasn’t in a box, from new. It was under the front passenger seat. Lithium battery is there now. Installed by eco tree. I don’t expect any issues with it when van goes for hab service in May. (Yes, we do have our vans serviced, we are happier that way. I know it’s not foolproof)

daash · Mar 19, 2023

It's a new vehicle and the warranty terms are here: https://elddis.co.uk/help-support/warranty
The problem is, it is quite wooly. What do they mean by the vehicle must be serviced? It certainly does not mean the engine. So it begs a question I will ask the dealer ,"what is a service".
I am extremely sceptical, I am now convinced by fellow Funsters; get a damp check (for warranty purposes only) and get a gas check by a gas safe engineer.
I am staggered to note that gas in motorhomes do not require professionally installing or checking by a qualified gas safe engineer just a "competent person." My supplying dealer does not strike me as being manned by a "competent person".
It reminds me of a guy I used to work with who's work was questionable. When I asked why he was nicknamed Zeus I was told "Zero Effort Unless Supervised".

Langtoftlad · Mar 19, 2023

daash said:
Even the damp check is a moot point; it's a panel van. Are these habitation checks just money for old rope or do they have a genuine, useful use?

I have a PVC, new in 2017, I had one habitation check in 2018 and haven't bothered since, until this month - and guess what...

Badknee said:
Wherever there’s a hole cut in a vehicle there could be damp ingress. Roof lights,

...they found damp in and around the rear roof light.
I'm taking it for further investigation & repair tomorrow.

So I would suggest, a proper habitation check is probably worth it

Tombola · Mar 19, 2023

Had a good few hab checks from habcheck.com (yeah I know) since having lithium and all passed with them just being clamped down.

Basildog · Mar 19, 2023

I am actually taking our PVC to the Autotrail factory next week for a habitation check .
Have never really bothered with Hab check on lots of new Caravans and Motorhomes , but we will be selling this one later in the year , the way people are these days as much as it goes against the grain

busby · Mar 19, 2023

daash said:
Even the damp check is a moot point; it's a panel van. Are these habitation checks just money for old rope or do they have a genuine, useful use?

Big Con,,BUSBY.

Minxy · Mar 19, 2023

daash said:
Even the damp check is a moot point; it's a panel van. Are these habitation checks just money for old rope or do they have a genuine, useful use?

busby said:
Big Con,,BUSBY.

It's difficult to say for sure as even PVCs can leak via windows, skylights, holes in the roof etc, and they DO have some timber in the ceiling and/or walls even though they are minimal when compared to many MHs. If damp goes unnoticed then it could cause a lot of damage - so long as the owner keeps an eye on them and checks seals etc fairly regularly there's no reason IMV to have a damp check, but if not then it does give some 'comfort' to them.

Bessy765 · Mar 19, 2023

Our A class Burstner just need a damp check every year to maintain the damp warranty. Our lithium are installed one under each. Front seat with a Kevlar shroud fitted and of course strapped down. (Not original fit)

meanders · Mar 19, 2023

We have always had a professional I trust to do habitation checks. They spot things I would probably miss. For my own peace of mind it is money well spent. I use a local guy who has more work than he can cope with, but have used Ash in the past when visiting Jasmin Camping. I had a dealer (Marquis) do just one. They didn't vent the battery area in the box under the seat, and the spark while connecting test gear blew it up in his face.

VXman · Mar 19, 2023

Lenny HB said:
Most German vans a hab check isn't needed defiantly not required on Hymer's and Carthago's. Brit manufacturers normally stitch you up and require a hab & damp check to keep the damp warranty.

Burstner require annual water ingress checks for 10 years. Odd because they are owned by Hymer. Presumably they are not built to the same quality as a Hymer?

Langtoftlad said:
I have a PVC, new in 2017, I had one habitation check in 2018 and haven't bothered since, until this month - and guess what...

...they found damp in and around the rear roof light.
I'm taking it for further investigation & repair tomorrow.

So I would suggest, a proper habitation check is probably worth it

Habitation check isn't anything to do with damp. A separate 'water ingress' check is needed for that. Some dealers may combine the two but I just request the water ingress check as that is all that is required for the warranty.

Lenny HB · Mar 19, 2023

VXman said:
Burstner require annual water ingress checks for 10 years. Odd because they are owned by Hymer. Presumably they are not built to the same quality as a Hymer?

Read again, I said hab check, Hymer's still need a damp check.

Folkranger · Mar 19, 2023

daash said:
I despair at the knowledge of "dealer experts" and will be taking my vehicle elsewhere for its hab check. Mine failed because the lithium battery was not housed in a box. It is, however, securely strapped in with a steel, battery retaining clamp. The ignorance of dealers leads me to despair.
Is anyone aware of any authority who publicly issue guidelines for lithium? I've checked the NCC website but can find nothing in relation to the issue.
Cheers all.

What's a habitation check?

Lenny HB · Mar 19, 2023

Folkranger said:
What's a habitation check?

It's a way of parting with loads of money to be told what you already know. :rofl:

Folkranger · Mar 19, 2023

Lenny HB said:
How can it fail a hab check mind you I have never had one just have the damp check for the warranty. The hab side I take care of myself.
Even damp checks are a rip off why should the customer pay to find the manufacturers errors even more so with a PVC. Some PVC's don't require a damp check I think Malibu is one.

My first dealer service said no damp check, nothing to check due to construction.

Jim · Mar 19, 2023

daash said:
This is really useful info fellow Funsters. So, a hab check is not compulsory to maintain the manufacturer's warranty but a damp check is?

This will help.

Motorhome Habitation Check

Some say that Annual Motorhome Habitation Checks are an essential part of owning a motorhome. Others are not covinced,

www.mfun.uk

Jimbohorlicks · Mar 19, 2023

daash said:
I despair at the knowledge of "dealer experts" and will be taking my vehicle elsewhere for its hab check. Mine failed because the lithium battery was not housed in a box. It is, however, securely strapped in with a steel, battery retaining clamp. The ignorance of dealers leads me to despair.
Is anyone aware of any authority who publicly issue guidelines for lithium? I've checked the NCC website but can find nothing in relation to the issue.
Cheers all.

Just be careful switching hab check companies as they may not want to take on your warranty repairs should the next hab check and water ingress check find issues. ELDISS will try to wriggle out of any warranty work if they can so its best to keep your hab checks up to date. I had an advisory on mine for a loose fire blanket, and it was something I fitted as an aftermarket safety, not supplied with the van.
Just be glad they checked your battery and pointed the lack of a box out to you.

Lenny HB · Mar 19, 2023

Folkranger said:
My first dealer service said no damp check, nothing to check due to construction.

If you are referring to your DL it is still required to keep the water ingress warranty.

VXman · Mar 19, 2023

Lenny HB said:
Read again, I said hab check, Hymer's still need a damp check.

Speed reading

Folkranger · Mar 19, 2023

Lenny HB said:
If you are referring to your DL it is still required to keep the water ingress warranty.

How do you do a damp test on an alluminium sandwich? other than checking window hatch and joint seals for visible water ingress.

Minxy · Mar 19, 2023

Folkranger said:
How do you do a damp test on an alluminium sandwich? other than checking window hatch and joint seals for visible water ingress.

You've answered it yourself ... it's a visible water ingress check, same as with Carthago. Basically they drench it with loads of water then see if any of it leaks into the hab interior, lockers etc.

dickydo · Mar 20, 2023

Fdhadi said:
If it’s the first Hab check and it has “Failed” then surely the dealer needs to be reported for supplying a vehicle this way. How did the vehicle pass a PDI Check originally?
Personally, I honestly don’t see a problem if the battery is secured.

PDI check

pull the other one

daash · Mar 28, 2023

I have written to the NCC, AWS and the CCC thus far NCC have responded.

From Me:
Dear blah, blah, blah

"I have a failed hab check because my Lithium Battery is not in a box. It is secure, safe and has been professionally fitted (see photo). As you are no doubt aware, a Lithium battery should not be in a box as it requires circulation and it contains no acid.

With the above in mind, and after checking with a few other NCC Approved Workshops there appears to be a certain level of misunderstanding regarding modern, lithium batteries. Are you, as an organisation, able to offer best advice to your membership in this matter and is this information available to me, a user of your services?
===============================================================
Dear Sir
Thank you for your recent email regarding the storage of Lithium batteries.

Our technical department have reviewed your query and confirmed that, as Lithium batteries do not give off gases under normal operating conditions, there is not a requirement for them to be fitted in a battery compartment (ie ‘boxed in’) provided that it they are adequately secured within the vehicle.

However, should your Lithium battery develop a fault whilst operating there is a chance of gases being emitted and so our recommendation would be that the battery is installed in a ventilated area.

We hope this is of assistance

Kind Regards

Jo Chubb
NCC Information Service
thencc.org.uk
NCC, Catherine House,
Victoria Road, Aldershot, Hampshire, GU11 1SS

robnchris · Mar 28, 2023

I'm still smiling at the title they have "Engineers" I went through 4 yrs of study at University taking endless exams and all my working life in heavy industry to have the title bestowed on me.
Personally I wouldn't let any of these monkeys any where near our motorhome.

daash · Mar 28, 2023

I believe in Germany a doctor is a doctor and an engineer is an engineer. In this country a doctor is a doctor and an engineer can be anyone who decides to call themselves an engineer. What is wrong with being called a fitter, welder, electrician, installer; absolutely nothing but they are not engineers.

daash · Mar 28, 2023

Response from the Caravan and Camping Club:

Contacted User
The Club has no ability to inspect a vehicle, there are organisations
that can do this for you. It will depend on the purpose of the report,
If this is for DVLA contact them to find out what they require, it may
be an IVA: https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-approval.

For a dispute we recommend using this organisation as they are
independent: IAEA - the Institute of Automotive Engineer Assessors,
http://www.iaea-online.org/find-an-engineer

For information DVLA have recently changed the external appearence
requirements:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motor-caravan

We don't agree with what has been set out and are in dialogue with them
to try to get some changes, however don't hold your breath.

Kind regards,

My response:

Hello

Thank you for your response.

Your response to a general question is not considered.

There is a lot of misinformation around regarding lithium batteries and the CCC should be able to provide general safety guidelines for their use in caravans and motorhomes.

For example:
https://www.campingandcaravanningclub.co.uk/advice/equipment/guide-leisure-batteries

This document requires updating as it talks about safety vis a vis lead acid but not lithium.

The question remains outstanding: Do lithium batteries have to be in a box?

I notice that the author of your document "Banner Batteries" do not sell lithium batteries and http://www.wickyworld.co.uk no longer exists. Do you think it is time the document was updated to reflect the current marketplace?

I look forward to hearing from you.

CCC’s response:

Thank you for your reply.

We are in the rather long-winded process of updating all our expert guides. Lithium has been well covered in the magazine and the section on it does need some expansion. While looking at the guide I spotted a typo' too, most annoying!

Sadly John Wickersham is no longer with us. Though Banner were very generous in assisting us pull this article together in reality it's all about lead-acid, we work more closely with GS Yuasa these days. A

To answer the question there's not normally any need to mount a lithium unit in a box, also VRLA lead-acid types can often be room fitted too with a vent tube to the outside. Our primary concern for lithium is 'cheap' product with no provenance, good quality units have their own battery charge control and need a simple fixed 13.6 (ish) volt DC feed, no need for clever desulphation or equalisation modes.
=======================================================================
For context. I did not know who John Wickersham was and that he had passed. Herewith a link: https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/news/john-wickersham-a-tribute

daash · Mar 28, 2023

I now have my "failed" hab check in my possession. It's noticeable that it does use the term Pass and Fail for individual line items.
I would be grateful for any comments before I refer back to the tester. The vehicle is based on a Fiat Ducato Panel Van.

Phill D · Mar 28, 2023

If you are really concerned and the tester maintains it does not British standard and will not budge I would simply print a copy of the response from ncc and attach it to the report with a note added at their comment to see attached.

Alternatively ask the people who installed it to verify that it meets the standard required.

Personally I would not be concerned move on and don’t use them again for hab checks.

Jimbohorlicks · Mar 28, 2023

I wouldn't let it worry you , its not really worth arguing about.

Failed First Habitation Check - All Because Lithium Battery Not in a Box!

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