Electric Motorhomes at Scale, Can't be Far Away Now.

If the manufacturers come up with an EV motorhome, the life expectancy of the batteries is roughly 7yrs, maybe less. At what cost to replace (lease?) and I will assume it will be a dealer only fitment.
 
Platelet said:
If the manufacturers come up with an EV motorhome, the life expectancy of the batteries is roughly 7yrs, maybe less. At what cost to replace (lease?) and I will assume it will be a dealer only fitment.
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That's largely been proven to be rubbish! Most ev batteries seem to lose capacity faster when new but are averaging about 2% a year.

How long do electric car batteries last? | RAC Drive

Unlike in many smaller electronic items, battery losses in cars are small and incremental. Find out how they degrade and get recycled.
www.rac.co.uk www.rac.co.uk
 
Platelet said:
If the manufacturers come up with an EV motorhome, the life expectancy of the batteries is roughly 7yrs, maybe less. At what cost to replace (lease?) and I will assume it will be a dealer only fitment.
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I think you have fallen for the most common anti EV myth sorry.

The batteries for the most part last if not outlast the vehicle. Yes some do fail early especially those without active thermal management like the Nissan leaf.
But properly designed ones and especially the newer ones with LiFePO4 (as opposed to NMC and NCA for instance) chemistry outlast the vehicle and go onto a 2nd life before being recycled.
 
Platelet said:
If the manufacturers come up with an EV motorhome, the life expectancy of the batteries is roughly 7yrs, maybe less. At what cost to replace (lease?) and I will assume it will be a dealer only fitment.
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That's the warranty. Lots of ICE cars only have a 3 year warranty.

And there are businesses that are popping up that are repairing battery packs. And others that are figuring out how to install after market packs. So your old clunker might have a longer range then when new after a refresh.
 
Platelet said:
If the manufacturers come up with an EV motorhome, the life expectancy of the batteries is roughly 7yrs, maybe less. At what cost to replace (lease?) and I will assume it will be a dealer only fitment.
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Electric cars in UK last as long as petrol and diesel vehicles, study finds
www.theguardian.com

Electric cars in UK last as long as petrol and diesel vehicles, study finds

International research team based findings on 300m records from MOT data to estimate failure rates of all cars
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

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Don't see many charging spaces big enough for a camper van let alone a Motorhome. Plenty of EC cars parked in them with charging cables not connected or lying under the car.
 
Coolcats said:
the converters will use sky hooks and air walls to save weight. Mind you saying this you only have to look at what Zeppelin did with thier old airships beautiful interiors (of the time) and light weight furniture



View attachment 990017
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As an aside, the Zeppelin museum in Friedrichshafen is worth a visit
 
cyberyacht said:
As an aside, the Zeppelin museum in Friedrichshafen is worth a visit
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Thanks and agree it is worth a visit, sometimes I can be a bit slow as I have had ZF gearbox’s in my track cars fabulous gearing, never realised they were Zeppelin !!! Until I spotted the ZF symbol doh!

You may have visited the nearby Dornier museum they have a DO 31 just by the entrance again a cracking bit of engineering.

And Bad Walsee Hymer museum isn’t far which is an interesting visit as it isn’t all about Hymer.

The DO 31 video.
 
Coolcats said:
Thanks and agree it is worth a visit, sometimes I can be a bit slow as I have had ZF gearbox’s in my track cars fabulous gearing, never realised they were Zeppelin !!! Until I spotted the ZF symbol doh!

You may have visited the nearby Dornier museum they have a DO 31 just by the entrance again a cracking bit of engineering.

And Bad Walsee Hymer museum isn’t far which is an interesting visit as it isn’t all about Hymer.

The DO 31 video.
Click to expand...

I never realised their history either interesting!
 
Hi folks
Interesting discussion
Couple of points.
While there are no sites I have seen with Diesel pumps, most have a filling station within a few miles or so. It takes us about 15 mins to fill up fuel(s) Diesel and gas and then we are on our way. The idea of stopping at a service station for 45mins each day to recharge does not add a thrill to our holiday.
While we don't tow, have you seen any charging points that can accommodate a trailer? There are some interesting reports of having to unhook a trailer or caravan in order to charge and EV. Imagine having to do this every day! Range is also hammered when towing.
I spoke to a van driver the other day who uses an EV transit. He has a range of 100 miles, and has to plan his route and day around charging. He is forced to have his lunch at charging time and this can be anything from 10:30 to 4pm.
We need to talk to those who use EVs for real world facts.

In short, I think we need to develop better fuels for ICEs rather than force everyone to go down the EV route. Over the last 50 years we have developed amazing internal combustion engines. They are now very efficient and clean. We have developed non oil based fuels but they are too expensive at the moment. More work need to be done on the fuels so all the work on ICEs is not wasted.
EVs are great for city cars, and short hops while ICE vehicles are best for big loads and long trips.

Thoughts?

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Blaydon said:
Hi folks
Interesting discussion
Couple of points.
While there are no sites I have seen with Diesel pumps, most have a filling station within a few miles or so. It takes us about 15 mins to fill up fuel(s) Diesel and gas and then we are on our way. The idea of stopping at a service station for 45mins each day to recharge does not add a thrill to our holiday.
While we don't tow, have you seen any charging points that can accommodate a trailer? There are some interesting reports of having to unhook a trailer or caravan in order to charge and EV. Imagine having to do this every day! Range is also hammered when towing.
I spoke to a van driver the other day who uses an EV transit. He has a range of 100 miles, and has to plan his route and day around charging. He is forced to have his lunch at charging time and this can be anything from 10:30 to 4pm.
We need to talk to those who use EVs for real world facts.

In short, I think we need to develop better fuels for ICEs rather than force everyone to go down the EV route. Over the last 50 years we have developed amazing internal combustion engines. They are now very efficient and clean. We have developed non oil based fuels but they are too expensive at the moment. More work need to be done on the fuels so all the work on ICEs is not wasted.
EVs are great for city cars, and short hops while ICE vehicles are best for big loads and long trips.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I agree that 100 miles is pointless for a motorhome. And trailers make the performance considerably worse. But that was a first generation BEV. But there are already vans with real world ranges of over 200 miles. It'll only take a few more years before they become pretty practical for motorhome use.

And no, you won't have to spend 45 mins sitting around each time you want to drive for 4-5 hours. Rapid charging shouldn't have to be used that often. It's a lot easier to fit a charging point than it is to create a diesel filling station. So when you're parked up overnight, you plug in. Or when you're stopped at that interesting tourist spot for a couple of hours, you'll slow charge. And even if you do rapid charge, a 15 minute coffee'n'wee stop should be enough to give you another couple of hours of range.
 
Jim said:
FIAT Professional has started production of the all-electric E-Ducato at its Atessa plant in Italy, marking a significant step toward sustainable mobility in the light commercial vehicle (LCV) sector.

The Ducato leads Europe’s RV market, with 70% of motorhomes built on its platform and a 16-year streak as “Best Camper Base Vehicle” by Promobil readers. It holds strong market positions across Europe, with a 24% share in Italy and notable rankings in France, Poland, Spain, and Portugal.

The E-Ducato, designed in-house, features a 110-kWh battery delivering a range of up to 424 km (WLTP), rapid charging, and versatile configurations suited for logistics and service industries.

Atessa, Europe’s largest LCV facility, produces up to 1,200 vehicles daily, exporting 80% to 75 countries. This milestone underscores FIAT Professional's commitment to Italian manufacturing and the shift to electric mobility.

View attachment 990001
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People I speak to about the EV issue (those with mechanical/electrical knowledge) invariably say that the total conversion to non diesel/petrol engines is just NOT going to happen in the timeline quoted by the government. I think this is obvious if you look at where we are now. However, we don't allow reality to get in the way of aspirational stuff these days now do we? :giggle:
 
Dogstoat said:
People I speak to about the EV issue (those with mechanical/electrical knowledge) invariably say that the total conversion to non diesel/petrol engines is just NOT going to happen in the timeline quoted by the government. I think this is obvious if you look at where we are now. However, we don't allow reality to get in the way of aspirational stuff these days now do we? :giggle:
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Tell that to the Norwegians. 90% of cars sold were pure EVs last year.
www.ecowatch.com

Nearly 90% of New Car Sales in Norway Were EVs in 2024 - EcoWatch

According to new data from the Norwegian Road Federation (OFV), nearly 90% of new vehicles sold in Norway in 2024 were electric.
www.ecowatch.com www.ecowatch.com
 
Guigsy said:
Tell that to the Norwegians. 90% of cars sold were pure EVs last year.
www.ecowatch.com

Nearly 90% of New Car Sales in Norway Were EVs in 2024 - EcoWatch

According to new data from the Norwegian Road Federation (OFV), nearly 90% of new vehicles sold in Norway in 2024 were electric.
www.ecowatch.com www.ecowatch.com
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5 million cars in Norway.
34 million in the UK.
THE LATEST Department for Transport vehicle licensing statistics show there were just under 34 million cars registered in the UK at the end of June 2024.

I hope it all works out fine. I doubt very much that it will though.

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Guigsy said:
So when you're parked up overnight, you plug in. Or when you're stopped at that interesting tourist spot for a couple of hours, you'll slow charge.
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Nice idea but we stay on Stelplats and the likes. We only stay on 'Sites' when we need to do laundry and not always then. Therefore charging overnight is not an option as they do not have any power of if they do it is low output - 3amps.
Most of the sites I have stayed on have hook up systems that will trip if you try to run a kettle with the water heater on.
Yes, in time, the systems will catch up with demand. Realistically, I will be sitting in my home dribbling in my soup before that happens - and I am 62!
In the mean time - lets make sure we diversify and have a range of options to meet all users. And, make sure we do not put all our eggs in one basket. I would say EVs are AN answer to SOME questions not THE answer to ALL questions.
 
1000209550.webp
 
Guigsy said:
I agree that 100 miles is pointless for a motorhome. And trailers make the performance considerably worse. But that was a first generation BEV. But there are already vans with real world ranges of over 200 miles. It'll only take a few more years before they become pretty practical for motorhome use.

And no, you won't have to spend 45 mins sitting around each time you want to drive for 4-5 hours. Rapid charging shouldn't have to be used that often. It's a lot easier to fit a charging point than it is to create a diesel filling station. So when you're parked up overnight, you plug in. Or when you're stopped at that interesting tourist spot for a couple of hours, you'll slow charge. And even if you do rapid charge, a 15 minute coffee'n'wee stop should be enough to give you another couple of hours of range.
Click to expand...

I once did Canterbury to Katowice, SW Poland 1,000 milesfrom 0400 one till 1600 next day. Unusual but if one wants/needs to do it then at the moment that would be impossible in an EV.

I do not want a MH in which in an emergency I cannot do similar.

I think it will be some years coming, especially with quality build and similar payload to a diesel.
 
Blaydon said:
Nice idea but we stay on Stelplats and the likes. We only stay on 'Sites' when we need to do laundry and not always then. Therefore charging overnight is not an option as they do not have any power of if they do it is low output - 3amps.
Most of the sites I have stayed on have hook up systems that will trip if you try to run a kettle with the water heater on.
Yes, in time, the systems will catch up with demand. Realistically, I will be sitting in my home dribbling in my soup before that happens - and I am 62!
In the mean time - lets make sure we diversify and have a range of options to meet all users. And, make sure we do not put all our eggs in one basket. I would say EVs are AN answer to SOME questions not THE answer to ALL questions.
Click to expand...
You can charge from 20 to 80% in half an hour or less on a high speed charger now and they're getting faster all the time. There are a lot of ev myths by the detractors. It's like the myth before about the battery life.

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Guigsy said:
I agree that 100 miles is pointless for a motorhome. And trailers make the performance considerably worse. But that was a first generation BEV. But there are already vans with real world ranges of over 200 miles. It'll only take a few more years before they become pretty practical for motorhome use.

And no, you won't have to spend 45 mins sitting around each time you want to drive for 4-5 hours. Rapid charging shouldn't have to be used that often. It's a lot easier to fit a charging point than it is to create a diesel filling station. So when you're parked up overnight, you plug in. Or when you're stopped at that interesting tourist spot for a couple of hours, you'll slow charge. And even if you do rapid charge, a 15 minute coffee'n'wee stop should be enough to give you another couple of hours of range.
Click to expand...

Just for fun(!) I decided to put our last French trip into my homemade EV journey planner that I use when planning roadtrips. My theoretical electric MH has a 100kW battery with a real world range of 200 miles, and an average DC charging speed of 66kW (that's the average we've got over the past year or so with our EQC at public chargers so it seems a reasonable assumption). On that trip we stayed on a mix of aires and campsites, so I also assumed we would be able to slow charge at campsites.

Compared to the actual drive times I'd recorded in Polarsteps and on my Google timeline, I was quite surprised to see that over the 23 day/1900 mile trip, having to charge would only add about an extra 4hrs to our entire journey time. And 3 of those hours were all on the two days where we did long drives to get from the Med coast back to the tunnel. On the days where we travelled in a more relaxed way: about 4 hours driving with a lunch stop about half way, charging would cost us no time at all in most cases (assuming our lunch stop had a charger......which I noticed last year that most of them do).

Obviously things like charging infrastructure for large vehicles would need to improve to make this really feasible, and we need to resolve the weight/payload issues. But battery and charging tech advances should hopefully mean that not only does the range improve, but also charging speeds (meaning when you do have to stop just to charge, it shouldn't take very long at all). We're not there yet, but I think it shows we're not really that far off.
 
DangerMousy said:
Just for fun(!) I decided to put our last French trip into my homemade EV journey planner that I use when planning roadtrips. My theoretical electric MH has a 100kW battery with a real world range of 200 miles, and an average DC charging speed of 66kW (that's the average we've got over the past year or so with our EQC at public chargers so it seems a reasonable assumption). On that trip we stayed on a mix of aires and campsites, so I also assumed we would be able to slow charge at campsites.

Compared to the actual drive times I'd recorded in Polarsteps and on my Google timeline, I was quite surprised to see that over the 23 day/1900 mile trip, having to charge would only add about an extra 4hrs to our entire journey time. And 3 of those hours were all on the two days where we did long drives to get from the Med coast back to the tunnel. On the days where we travelled in a more relaxed way: about 4 hours driving with a lunch stop about half way, charging would cost us no time at all in most cases (assuming our lunch stop had a charger......which I noticed last year that most of them do).

Obviously things like charging infrastructure for large vehicles would need to improve to make this really feasible, and we need to resolve the weight/payload issues. But battery and charging tech advances should hopefully mean that not only does the range improve, but also charging speeds (meaning when you do have to stop just to charge, it shouldn't take very long at all). We're not there yet, but I think it shows we're not really that far off.
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Switching to battery power does require some behavioural changes. But it's not as drastic or constraining as most people instinctively think. Turns out that there's a threshold range people need, after which the benefits and added convenience rapidly reduces. And that required range is a lot less than you'd think. I'd want a bit more than 200 miles of real world range in a motorhome. But I don't think it'd need to be much more.

Give it another couple of years, and I think we'll have PVCs with 120-150kWh packs and 250 mile range. They'll demand a premium. But the price will drop over time. It'll be a few more years before coach builds will be practical as BEVs though.
 
The vehicle manufacturers, as you would expect, do quite a lot of research into people's driving habits.

As I understand it about 95% of daily journeys in cars can very comfortably be done in an electric car without having to recharge. A significant subset of the remaining 5% can presumably manage just by finding a place to recharge.

Motorhomes aren't driven exactly like cars. Also, I suspect that there is a wider range of usage patterns in the case of motorhomes.

Want to travel in the UK and rarely do more than 100 miles a day? Perfect.

Want to race south and then spend 3 months in Morocco? Diesel is your friend.

Want to cross at Calais and get to the Algarve in 2 or 3 days? Maybe it is possible, but what are the risks? How many of those charging points are down, and what may cause them to go down? How close is the next one if that happens? Do I then need to charge more frequently just to be sure?

I'll wait until the technology is bedded down much better before I risk it.
 
enark said:
All very good….

But what about the HV cable network to support it?

The power station capacity?

The trades to do the installation?

The planning to dig up the roads to do the connections?

Etc etc
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The national grid currently carries about 30% less peak electric than it did in the peak about 20 years ago. Vehicle batteries will do much of their charging overnight when demand on the grid is far lower. Yes, we're now generating power in different places, but it's not as bad a problem as some claim.

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2030 ....only 5 years away from total phase out of sales of ICE vehicles in the UK. So presumably, the manufacturers will be scaling back from production before 2030.

So if the EV system goes into meltdown for whatever reason then there will be no fall back.

It's like scuttling a ship on the basis that 'we will probably' have some really good lifeboats before she finally sinks.

Meanwhile, the wishful thinking brigade of lemmings carries on marching towards the cliff whistling planet-saving ditties as they go.

Total insanity in my view.

The 2030 date will be subject of a U-Turn .......I just hope the government announces one before it's too late.
 
Dogstoat said:
2030 ....only 5 years away from total phase out of sales of ICE vehicles in the UK. So presumably, the manufacturers will be scaling back from production before 2030.

So if the EV system goes into meltdown for whatever reason then there will be no fall back.

It's like scuttling a ship on the basis that 'we will probably' have some really good lifeboats before she finally sinks.

Meanwhile, the wishful thinking brigade of lemmings carries on marching towards the cliff whistling planet-saving ditties as they go.

Total insanity in my view.

The 2030 date will be subject of a U-Turn .......I just hope the government announces one before it's too late.
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The ban really isn't that strict. Hybrids are still allowed until 2035. And given that you can slap a powerful starter motor on a car, powered by something about the size of a drill battery and call it a "mild hybrid", it's not really very restrictive.

And Norway are already at 90% pure EVs. With far harsher conditions and much longer gaps between towns.

The only people that think the current timescales are insanity are car manufacturers that want to eek out more profits on their ICE investment, and the Daily Mail.
 
Guigsy said:
The national grid currently carries about 30% less peak electric than it did in the peak about 20 years ago. Vehicle batteries will do much of their charging overnight when demand on the grid is far lower. Yes, we're now generating power in different places, but it's not as bad a problem as some claim.
Click to expand...
Interesting, but Electric demand will grow along with the Pylons being planted across East Anglia

"To meet the UK’s projected 50% increase in electricity demand by 2035, the targets for low-carbon power generation have been increased in the Energy Security Strategy paper, compared to previous targets in the Energy White Paper. The table below includes both targets, alongside the Climate Change Committee (CCC) recommended capacity targets and current operational capacity for each energy type."

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