EHU surge protection

[Lenny HB]

I don't know if you can really answer the following question given your reply above, but I will ask anyway

IF you had a setup that already dealt with over and under voltage (something the Victron Multiplus does), would you personally get the AVS30 anyway for the claimed Surge Protection (something the Victron Multiplus does not do as far as I am aware)?

I was thinking of asking you and Raul the same question as the information on the protection in the Multiplus is a bit sketchy, I'm constantly thinking about what I going to do in the new van when it arrives.
I think the surge protection in the AVS30 is probably only varistors so I could add those myself.

 

[Hoovie]

I was thinking of asking you and Raul the same question as the information on the protection in the Multiplus is a bit sketchy, I'm constantly thinking about what I going to do in the new van when it arrives.
I think the surge protection in the AVS30 is probably only varistors so I could add those myself.

maybe a question to Victron is needed regarding native Surge Protection?
The cost of the Multiplus is such that if it does not manage it directly, having something like the AVS30 could be a worthwhile investment. Or possibly just a specific Surge Protector?
As has been alluded to in this and other threads, the problem is there is so much rubbish out there in terms of copied stuff, the hardest thing is knowing if what you have bought is actually genuine and actually does the job - and actual self-testing for Surge could be awkward!

 

[Raul]

Multiplus does not protect you from surges or spikes as such, but, you can narrow its input parameters in the settings, to disconnect as soon as the grid is out of spec. It does this at a speed of 16 ish milliseconds, using same path and relay used for UPS function. A better job would be a autotransformer before the multi , first in the path of the grid.
But this is expensive and heavy, a resettable varistor it’s a a better choice. Problem is, the surge has to discharge via a healthy supply earth. So the varistor is as good as the earth supply is.
If you can test the ehu supply earth before you connect the van, ( double isolator), you could close frost isolator, test for earth, then close second isolator to supply the van, or your multi.

 

[Hoovie]

Multiplus does not protect you from surges or spikes as such, but, you can narrow its input parameters in the settings, to disconnect as soon as the grid is out of spec. It does this at a speed of 16 ish milliseconds, using same path and relay used for UPS function. A better job would be a autotransformer before the multi , first in the path of the grid.
But this is expensive and heavy, a resettable varistor it’s a a better choice. Problem is, the surge has to discharge via a healthy supply earth. So the varistor is as good as the earth supply is.
If you can test the ehu supply earth before you connect the van, ( double isolator), you could close frost isolator, test for earth, then close second isolator to supply the van, or your multi.

I think a key requirement for this type of thing is automatic testing/protection. You could do what you say in your last sentence, but in reality, would you? Some might, but they would be in the significant minority I would think (I doubt very much if I would bother TBTH).

 

[Raul]

You’re right, in terms of practicality, and implementation of such exercise will be a faff. It’s just a explanation from my part to illustrate the logic of its functionality. Implementing it, I agree, a device that will light up automatically, or warn for missing earth will be more practical.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Hoovie]

You’re right, in terms of practicality, and implementation of such exercise will be a faff. It’s just a explanation from my part to illustrate the logic of its functionality. Implementing it, I agree, a device that will light up automatically, or warn for missing earth will be more practical.

Yup. I have quite a nice Plug-in tester that I tend to leave in a socket and apart from actual voltage, will indicate polarity issues, missing earth etc. I would say carrying such a tester should be standard for every motorhomer or caravan user considering their price and usefulness.

Of course, these are just 'viewers' of the situation and don't fix or directly protect against any problems.

 

[PeterCarole29]

maybe a question to Victron is needed regarding native Surge Protection?
The cost of the Multiplus is such that if it does not manage it directly, having something like the AVS30 could be a worthwhile investment. Or possibly just a specific Surge Protector?
As has been alluded to in this and other threads, the problem is there is so much rubbish out there in terms of copied stuff, the hardest thing is knowing if what you have bought is actually genuine and actually does the job - and actual self-testing for Surge could be awkward!

I was assured by Solletek that there were only two places that were assured to be genuine and that is amazon and there own website. if you order from amazon it is solletek who send them out directly from there warehouse.

 

[Glitch]

I was assured by Solletek that there were only two places that were assured to be genuine and that is amazon and there own website. if you order from amazon it is solletek who send them out directly from there warehouse.

Strange as their web site page for the AVS30 also shows RS Components as an official reseller as well?

 

[Old Gibber]

Thanks Lenny HB With cost in mind, I’ll get the AVS fitted and set at 260/180

Over voltage is much more harmful than undervoltage. Indeed the latter is not likely to cause any damage to equipment. However, most most mains equipment is not designed to run at anything above 240v and will be damaged by such high voltages.
Seems a wholly pointless exercise to me, and if going to these lenghts in the motorhome, what do you do in your permanent residence back in the UK?

 

[Hoovie]

Over voltage is much more harmful than undervoltage. Indeed the latter is not likely to cause any damage to equipment. However, most most mains equipment is not designed to run at anything above 240v and will be damaged by such high voltages.
Seems a wholly pointless exercise to me, and if going to these lenghts in the motorhome, what do you do in your permanent residence back in the UK?

Hope you are wrong! my voltage at home is invariably over 240V

e.g.

(the acceptable range is actually 230V +10%/-6% so over 250V is deemed acceptable)

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Old Gibber]

Hope you are wrong! my voltage at home is invariably over 240V

(the acceptable range is actually 230V +10%/-6% so over 250V is deemed acceptable)

Yes so was mine, and it took many years to get the electricity board to resolve it below 250v. In the mean time the overvoltage destroyed several pieces of electronics. I suggest you look at the rated voltage range on the back of some equipment like TVs.

 

[Lenny HB]

Hope you are wrong! my voltage at home is invariably over 240V

(the acceptable range is actually 230V +10%/-6% so over 250V is deemed acceptable)

Common if you are on a overhead supply.

 

[Hoovie]

Yes so was mine, and it took many years to get the electricity board to resolve it below 250v. In the mean time the overvoltage destroyed several pieces of electronics. I suggest you look at the rated voltage range on the back of some equipment like TVs.

well, mine is in working range so not worried (and nothing broken). Voltages quoted are nominal, not absolutes.

 

[Raul]

Solar grid inverters export energy into the grid, and disconnect if grid reaches 262v. The smooth 250-260v it’s not the issue here. Is when the grid is weak, that’s when it’s more prone for a spike, until grid evens out, as the energy is absorbed. This is when a big load brings the grid low (weak) to 200-220v, then the big load shuts down.This is when the low grid will spike well over 260v, while the area with 230-240 will not spike as much, as it has higher opposed resistance. Hope this makes sense,

 

[Hoovie]

Just as an aside, these are the defaults for the Victron Multiplus ....

Be interesting to know how fast it disconnects when it detects the low and high disconnect voltages. It switches from AC supply to Inverter so fast there is no interruption of output (the UPS function) so it probably does the high/low disconnect as fast?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Raul]

According to victron under 16 milliseconds.

 

[Silver-Fox]

For those amongst us is there any chance someone could use plain English on this subject

Is it worth fitting one of these devices and where to fit.

Just wondering

 

[Hoovie]

According to victron under 16 milliseconds.

That would be under 1 cycle (at 50 OR 60Hz). Remarkable and probably impossible to be any faster.
If disconnection provides full protection, that would suggest the Multiplus has surge protection as well?

 

[Raul]

Theoretically yes, that’s why I suggested to narrow the input parameters, so this out of spec to be triggered early enough to prevent a surge entering the input. Probably this is one reason, I have never ever had a surge, but did have disconnects on unstable grid supply. Perhaps I had protection without realising. I don’t activate weak AC, and no dinamic limiter either. Only clean AC in.

 

[Hoovie]

Theoretically yes, that’s why I suggested to narrow the input parameters, so this out of spec to be triggered early enough to prevent a surge entering the input. Probably this is one reason, I have never ever had a surge, but did have disconnects on unstable grid supply. Perhaps I had protection without realising. I don’t activate weak AC, and no dinamic limiter either. Only clean AC in.

Before I grabbed that screenshot, I didn't take notice how wide the default voltage parameters were on the Multiplus! I think I will be closing them in, and probably a fair bit!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Raul]

Yes that screen shot it’s default setting as it’s intended for stand alone with generator input. That’s the reason those parameters are such wide values. Usually, when grid setings are loaded, or ESS, the grid parameters are stricter and values are presets for each country code, accordingly.
You can narrow the input and still have grid assist as a stand alone system.

 

[Hoovie]

Yes that screen shot it’s default setting as it’s intended for stand alone with generator input. That’s the reason those parameters are such wide values. Usually, when grid setings are loaded, or ESS, the grid parameters are stricter and values are presets for each country code, accordingly.
You can narrow the input and still have grid assist as a stand alone system.

Made the change

Used the official range of 230V +10%/-6% for the High/Low disconnects with the default differences for reconnections.

(didn't uncheck the 'accept frequency range' option but I don't think we see that really fluctating do we? I never have anyway.)

 

[SpeedyDux]

Surge is what you get when the 240v power is reconnected by the Grid after a local power cut. I doubt if a nearby lightning strike is as common a risk.

If you are on EHU, I would suggest you disconnect your cable from the bollard until after power has been restored and the mains voltage is stabilised. At night you might not be aware that there was a power cut. Can you buy a surge protector that connects to the EHU lead itself?

 

[treblid]

I was assured by Solletek that there were only two places that were assured to be genuine and that is amazon and there own website. if you order from amazon it is solletek who send them out directly from there warehouse.

Strange as their web site page for the AVS30 also shows RS Components as an official reseller as well?

If you follow the Amazon link from the Sollatek website, you will be offered a 15% discount code (click on promotion message) if you have not purchased one before. Brings the total cost with P&P down to £72.80.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Hopefully, the one I ordered from Amazon that's arrived is a genuine one, and not one where they've just improved their spelling


Mike.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[TinaLes]

I think with all this speculation on The AV30, then maybe a quick phone call or e-mail to Sollatek would answer a lot of questions and maybe put our minds at rest.
Questions: Does it have anti -surge protection, if so what are the disconnect times.?
Where are the "Genuine" ones from Sollatek are manufactured, if other than UK, do they meet the UK /CE standard, presumably they do to be sold here, so hopefully they will confirm that.

I would be disappointed if it didnt have anti-surge protection, as I presume most buying it would assume it had.
LES

 

[Newfie]

Here is the data sheet for the AVS30

https://sollatek.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/AVS30-data-sheet.pdf

 

[treblid]

And the instructions explain you questions: https://sollatek.wpenginepowered.co...nglish-74107030-July-2020-115x193mm-V5-HR.pdf

 

[PeterCarole29]

Strange as their web site page for the AVS30 also shows RS Components as an official reseller as well?
View attachment 729593

I would say from that i have been told wrong, Its more likely the member of staff was wrong than the website.
Maybe if an administrater is reading this he can delete the post i did saying there is only 2 places

 

[PeterCarole29]

Hopefully, the one I ordered from Amazon that's arrived is a genuine one, and not one where they've just improved their spelling

View attachment 729843
Mike.

I have recieved mine today direct from Sollatek i will open it tomorrow.Yours looks genuine and very different from my counterfeit

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}