DVLA at it again - making up there own rules (1 Viewer)

[The Artilleryman]

DVLA have recently been refusing to change the tax class on any motorhome that is up plated to more than 3500KG. The letter they send out is incorrect, as they are saying that they cannot change the tax code, but only change the Maximum permissible mass (to the new weight).

This leaves the revenue weight & mass in service weights at 3500.

Clearly we could end up being done for being overweight.

Also ANY vehicle over 3500KG is automatically classed PHGV.

I have spoken to SVTech about this and they are aware of this issue and have raised this with several bodies including the NCC.

Clearly somebody at DVLA has got a bee in there bonnet about the number of motorhomes up plating and getting VED refunds and has decided to refuse to change the tax class.

One would hope this can be sorted quickly but I suspect not.

 

[Tigger-Tim]

Simple, some MP somewhere has a large motorhome.

I thought it was taken off her by the police!

 

[Molly A]

That's obviously where sir kier is going to get the money from.
Rich motorhomers

Do you imagine that this has been rushed through in the last two weeks???? Give your head a wobble!

 

[Platelet]

Again a misinterpretation of the legislation.

M1 only defines the vehicle as designed to carry less than 8 passengers, but again all motorhomes are based on commercial At the moment my V5c has a Max. permissible weight of 3850, but a Mass in service of 3500 (which is based on the Revenue weight 3500kg. This makes the V5c an inaccurate document, which could be used to allege it's over weight, although the VIN plate now states 3850.

This is the same argument I made a few months ago around the MH having 2 weights displayed. The ex factory weight and the converters new plate.

 

[Boldly]

Do you imagine that this has been rushed through in the last two weeks???? Give your head a wobble!

It was a joke in reply to the hard right on here hence the emoji

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Andysprinter]

Didn’t really plan on going above 3500kg with our Sprinter. It’s a steep learning curve to find out that’s not possible. We used VWE ( really good) and applied 6th June. Still not heard anything and of course any travel plans are on hold

 

[rod_vw]

Didn’t really plan on going above 3500kg with our Sprinter. It’s a steep learning curve to find out that’s not possible. We used VWE ( really good) and applied 6th June. Still not heard anything and of course any travel plans are on hold

I flew by the seat of my pants and have spent four weeks in Europe recently without a V5C just a scan of the old one. I've been traveling into Europe with a camper for best part of forty years and never been asked for it but sod's law says it will happen when I've forgotten it!
The main risk is if you have any kind of motoring incident, then you are very likely to get asked for it.

 

[nicholsong]

I flew by the seat of my pants and have spent four weeks in Europe recently without a V5C just a scan of the old one. I've been traveling into Europe with a camper for best part of forty years and never been asked for it but sod's law says it will happen when I've forgotten it!
The main risk is if you have any kind of motoring incident, then you are very likely to get asked for it.

In France you can be asked for proof of ownership, which the V5c states very emphatically on the front that it is not. I carry the Bill of Sale from when I bought the MH, although that has the UK registration no., before the Polish one, but the VIN nos. check.

 

[Bazzagas]

I flew by the seat of my pants and have spent four weeks in Europe recently without a V5C just a scan of the old one. I've been traveling into Europe with a camper for best part of forty years and never been asked for it but sod's law says it will happen when I've forgotten it!
The main risk is if you have any kind of motoring incident, then you are very likely to get asked for it.

We've just done 8 weeks and I forgot ALL the paperwork....on edge every time a vehicle with a blue light came up behind me..

 

[rod_vw]

In France you can be asked for proof of ownership, which the V5c states very emphatically on the front that it is not. I carry the Bill of Sale from when I bought the MH, although that has the UK registration no., before the Polish one, but the VIN nos. check.

I wonder how the hell would I do that with a vehicle that was bought new by me as a van (with some windows) and has been converted to a camper? As you see from my signature I have been doing this for the past twenty years.
As you say they would have to accept that I purchased a vehicle with a particular VIN whose sale description does not match how it now looks.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[nicholsong]

I wonder how the hell would I do that with a vehicle that was bought new by me as a van (with some windows) and has been converted to a camper? As you see from my signature I have been doing this for the past twenty years.
As you say they would have to accept that I purchased a vehicle with a particular VIN whose sale description does not match how it now looks

I do not know without Bill of Sale.

It is French Law, so ask the French.

 

[Joc]

I was in Morocco last year and got pulled by the rozzers for speeding (60 kmph in a 50 kmph country road stretch). They wanted to see EVERY document relating to the moho. They knew exactly what to look for on the documents! Even asked why it was registered and insured as an Adria but the "vehicle" was a Fiat Ducato?! Maybe they were just being arsy but, fortunately, I had all the correct paperwork .
My V5c only shows the Revenue weight, which has been upgraded to 3800 (paperwork excercise with DVLA when I bought the van new).

 

[markandy1994]

Same here, just under 4 weeks from start to finish. No problems whatsoever.

Just up plated mine last week
All seem to go ok...5 weeks it took...

 

[Molly A]

It was a joke in reply to the hard right on here hence the emoji

Fair play, although given the tenor of some of the comments yoh get on here, you can never be sure.....

 

[The Artilleryman]

Update

Checked DVLA web page and Revenue weight is now 3850kg and new V5c issued today.

Will be interesting to see if MPM & Mass in Service are both 3850 as well - they changed MPM to 3850, but refused to change Revenue weight - and it's PHGV.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[rod_vw]

Update

Checked DVLA web page and Revenue weight is now 3850kg and new V5c issued today.

Will be interesting to see if MPM & Mass in Service are both 3850 as well - they changed MPM to 3850, but refused to change Revenue weight - and it's PHGV.

Is it registered as M1 or N1? From my letter it's only the N1s that they are refusing to change.

 

[The Artilleryman]

It's M1 and my letter stated that as it was M1 revenue weight could not be changed - what a load of bol*****.

 

[rod_vw]

It's M1 and my letter stated that as it was M1 revenue weight could not be changed - what a load of bol*****.

I am a little confused by what you are saying.

You say the the DVLA website quotes a Revenue weight of 3850kg which means that it is automatically PHG but the letter that you have received states that they cannot change the Revenue weight because the vehicle was registered as M1.

My letter says that they cannot change the Revenue weight because my vehicle was registered as N1 and despite the Max permissible mass now being shown on the V5C as 4200kg but the Revenue weight is still shown as 3500kg.

My letter...

 

[The Artilleryman]

I think you missed my header Update and it looks like I forgot to press "Post reply" whilst we were away, to say that as somebody has had there V5c updated since my refusal, I had reapplied and it was on checking the status on this, that I posted #74

Similar letter to mine - dated 2 days later than mine - except M1 instead of N1 on yours, basically DVLA is talking bollocks. "Licensing status" does not appear on the V5c and "tax(ation) class" is dependent (in this case) on weight IE under or over 3500kg.

Revenue weight, MPM & Mass in service, in our case should ALL be the same - 3850kg for me & 4200kg for you - I'm not convinced that DVLA will get it 100% right this time, probably forget to change "Mass in service".

Also from what date will the "Taxation class" change take effect, first application was dated 8th May 2024, but I bet it will be from 1st August 2024.

 

[Howard B]

My V5c doesn't show anything in the vehicle category. How would I know if my van is N1 or M1?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[nicholsong]

My V5c doesn't show anything in the vehicle category. How would I know if my van is N1 or M1?

If it is classified as a 'Motor Caravan' it is automatically in category 'M1 (Special Purpose)' regardless of weight.

N1 is for vehicles designed to 'carry goods'

 

[rod_vw]

If it is classified as a 'Motor Caravan' it is automatically in category 'M1 (Special Purpose)' regardless of weight.

N1 is for vehicles designed to 'carry goods'

Hi nicholsong do you have any DVLA / Government document that quotes that Motor Caravan is automatically M1 (Special Purpose)?
From my post #44 I was able to find documents that indicated that a Motor Caravan was a Special Purpose vehicle but no mention of either N1 or M1.

 

[Orion]

Hi nicholsong do you have any DVLA / Government document that quotes that Motor Caravan is automatically M1 (Special Purpose)?
From my post #44 I was able to find documents that indicated that a Motor Caravan was a Special Purpose vehicle but no mention of either N1 or M1.

Here you go.

Vehicle Certification Agency

The VCA's classification of power-driven vehicles, trailers, special purpose vehicles, agricultural vehicles and non-road mobile machinery.

www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk

See Sections 2.2.2 & 5.2.5

 

[Nigel P]

In France you can be asked for proof of ownership, which the V5c states very emphatically on the front that it is not. I carry the Bill of Sale from when I bought the MH, although that has the UK registration no., before the Polish one, but the VIN nos. check.

How do they cope with hire cars and company vehicles where at best you may have a photocopy of a V5c but certainly no 'ownership' documentation.

 

[nabsim]

I bet that if you downrated from 3850 to 3500 they would make sure the tax changed instantly to the higher amount

You have to send the difference with the application for any remaining months lol

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tigger-Tim]

How do they cope with hire cars and company vehicles where at best you may have a photocopy of a V5c but certainly no 'ownership' documentation.

You take a VE103 certificate. Or at least I did each time I took my company car abroad.

 

[Orion]

Here you go.

Vehicle Certification Agency

The VCA's classification of power-driven vehicles, trailers, special purpose vehicles, agricultural vehicles and non-road mobile machinery.

www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk

See Sections 2.2.2 & 5.2.5

Should have been Sections 2.2.1 & 2.5.1

 

[rod_vw]

Should have been Sections 2.2.1 & 2.5.1

Unfortunately that refers to an M1 class vehicle being equipped as a Motor Caravan (Section 2.5.2), no mention that I can see if it were an N1 classed vehicle.

On the other hand it does say that an N1 classed vehicle is one with a maximum mass not exceeding 3.5tonnes so by that Section (2.3.1) it cannot be an N1 vehicle once they have agreed that it can have a maximum mass exceeding 3.5tonnes.

 

[Orion]

From my post #44 I was able to find documents that indicated that a Motor Caravan was a Special Purpose vehicle but no mention of either N1 or M1.

Maybe I misunderstood your question but I thought that Section 2.5.1 answered it with: “Motor Caravan”: A special purpose M1 category vehicle …”

Unfortunately that refers to an M1 class vehicle being equipped as a Motor Caravan (Section 2.5.2), no mention that I can see if it were an N1 classed vehicle.

On the other hand it does say that an N1 classed vehicle is one with a maximum mass not exceeding 3.5tonnes so by that Section (2.3.1) it cannot be an N1 vehicle once they have agreed that it can have a maximum mass exceeding 3.5tonnes.

I take it that it’s only a vehicle designated as a “Motor Caravan’, (irrespective of being < 3500kg PLG or >3500kg PHGV), that can be M1 - as stated in 2.5.1. And therefore. by omission a “Motor Caravan’ cannot be an N1 or N2 as that classification is solely for goods vehicles.

Although, given the strange things reported to coming out of the DVLA recently regarding up plating, I wouldn’t be surprised at any mix ‘n’ match of the above being put a V5C.

 

[Julie S]

Didn’t really plan on going above 3500kg with our Sprinter. It’s a steep learning curve to find out that’s not possible. We used VWE ( really good) and applied 6th June. Still not heard anything and of course any travel plans are on hold

I also applied to uprated my MH on the 6th of June using VWE who were brilliant. On the 16th of July I received a letter from DVLA asking for more info and giving me a list of accepted Businesses. When I phoned them I was told VWE had been removed from their accepted list!!! I have to restart the whole process. Dee at VWE has been supportive, but his hands are tied. Top guy....has offered me a refund.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Howard B]

I also applied to uprated my MH on the 6th of June using VWE who were brilliant. On the 16th of July I received a letter from DVLA asking for more info and giving me a list of accepted Businesses. When I phoned them I was told VWE had been removed from their accepted list!!! I have to restart the whole process. Dee at VWE has been supportive, but his hands are tied. Top guy....has offered me a refund.

So are DVLA saying VWE can no longer do the calculations for uprating the weight?