DVLA at it again - making up there own rules

[The Artilleryman]

DVLA have recently been refusing to change the tax class on any motorhome that is up plated to more than 3500KG. The letter they send out is incorrect, as they are saying that they cannot change the tax code, but only change the Maximum permissible mass (to the new weight).

This leaves the revenue weight & mass in service weights at 3500.

Clearly we could end up being done for being overweight.

Also ANY vehicle over 3500KG is automatically classed PHGV.

I have spoken to SVTech about this and they are aware of this issue and have raised this with several bodies including the NCC.

Clearly somebody at DVLA has got a bee in there bonnet about the number of motorhomes up plating and getting VED refunds and has decided to refuse to change the tax class.

One would hope this can be sorted quickly but I suspect not.

 

[nicholsong]

DVLA have recently been refusing to change the tax class on any motorhome that is up plated to more than 3500KG. The letter they send out is incorrect, as they are saying that they cannot change the tax code, but only change the Maximum permissible mass (to the new weight).

This leaves the revenue weight & mass in service weights at 3500.

Clearly we could end up being done for being overweight.

Also ANY vehicle over 3500KG is automatically classed PHGV.

I have spoken to SVTech about this and they are aware of this issue and have raised this with several bodies including the NCC.

Clearly somebody at DVLA has got a bee in there bonnet about the number of motorhomes up plating and getting VED refunds and has decided to refuse to change the tax class.

One would hope this can be sorted quickly but I suspect not.

I once had reason to delve into how the 'Revenue Weight; definition is arrived at, and although I do not have the references to hand, 'Revenue Weight' is directly related to the Max Permissible Mass.

Therefore if the MPM changes then the Revenue weight automatically changes.

In correspondence with DVLA You should concentrate on the above, leaving out the consequences of overweight etc.

One approach would be to ask them to quote the legal sources for the definition of 'Revenue Weight'. That research may lead them to the information I gave above. You could also involve the Legal Dept. at Dept of Transport, who represent DVLA as an Agency of DoT, and because DVLA do not have their own Legal Department. Bit like their Medical Department do not have any Doctors.

 

[David and Sally]

DVLA have recently been refusing to change the tax class on any motorhome that is up plated to more than 3500KG. The letter they send out is incorrect, as they are saying that they cannot change the tax code, but only change the Maximum permissible mass (to the new weight).

This leaves the revenue weight & mass in service weights at 3500.

Clearly we could end up being done for being overweight.

Also ANY vehicle over 3500KG is automatically classed PHGV.

I have spoken to SVTech about this and they are aware of this issue and have raised this with several bodies including the NCC.

Clearly somebody at DVLA has got a bee in there bonnet about the number of motorhomes up plating and getting VED refunds and has decided to refuse to change the tax class.

One would hope this can be sorted quickly but I suspect not.

Phew. Just sneaked ours in then a few months ago. I wonder whether this change of heart is backed by legislation.

 

[Boldly]

That's obviously where sir kier is going to get the money from.
Rich motorhomers

 

[68c]

Cannot see the lower tax for heavier vehicles anomaly lasting much longer.

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[Howard B]

Bugger, was going to do mine later this year for the cheaper RFL. Will hold off and see how it plays out.

 

[andyman]

Is it something to do with yours being M1. IE taxed on the emissions.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Phew. Just sneaked ours in then a few months ago. I wonder whether this change of heart is backed by legislation.

No, it's just somebodies (mis)interpretation of existing legislation.

Same as when expensive new cars were hit with high VED, they did the same to motorhomes - except motorhomes are based on commercial vehicles not cars.

 

[The Artilleryman]

That's obviously where sir kier is going to get the money from.
Rich motorhomers

Such a piddling amount as to be insignificant.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Cannot see the lower tax for heavier vehicles anomaly lasting much longer.

I can, it's lower as it's moving goods, rather than for pleasure.

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[The Artilleryman]

Is it something to do with yours being M1. IE taxed on the emissions.

Again a misinterpretation of the legislation.

M1 only defines the vehicle as designed to carry less than 8 passengers, but again all motorhomes are based on commercial vehicles, also it does not have anything to do with weight.

The only section on a V5c that can be changed (in this instance) is the Revenue Weight, which they are refusing to do.
This is a legal definition which they must abide by.

At the moment my V5c has a Max. permissible weight of 3850, but a Mass in service of 3500 (which is based on the Revenue weight 3500kg. This makes the V5c an inaccurate document, which could be used to allege it's over weight, although the VIN plate now states 3850.

 

[Vintage_Potter]

DVLA have recently been refusing to change the tax class on any motorhome that is up plated to more than 3500KG. The letter they send out is incorrect, as they are saying that they cannot change the tax code, but only change the Maximum permissible mass (to the new weight).

This leaves the revenue weight & mass in service weights at 3500.

Clearly we could end up being done for being overweight.

Also ANY vehicle over 3500KG is automatically classed PHGV.

I have spoken to SVTech about this and they are aware of this issue and have raised this with several bodies including the NCC.

Clearly somebody at DVLA has got a bee in there bonnet about the number of motorhomes up plating and getting VED refunds and has decided to refuse to change the tax class.

One would hope this can be sorted quickly but I suspect not.

I had my Adria upplated from 3500 to 3850 last month. Paper exercise only, great assistance from Van Weight Engineering. Tax class changed just in time to reduce my VED from £380 to £165. The DVLA failed however to increase the F1 maximum permissable mass to 3850 which should automatically be a part of their process but according to VWE requires the operative to access a different system.

So I'm legal at 3850KG in the UK but might have an issue with the gendarmerie if I venture across the channel. My email pointing out the issue has not received a response from DVLA yet but it was only sent a week ago.

I'm happy that my tax has gone down, that actually happened faster than I expected.

 

[Lenny HB]

I hope it gets sorted as I'm just about to up plate my van.

So I'm legal at 3850KG in the UK but might have an issue with the gendarmerie if I venture across the channel. My email pointing out the issue has not received a response from DVLA yet but it was only sent a week ago.

Did that to me a few years ago, it took them 4 months to get it right.

 

[WESTY66]

I had my Adria upplated from 3500 to 3850 last month. Paper exercise only, great assistance from Van Weight Engineering. Tax class changed just in time to reduce my VED from £380 to £165. The DVLA failed however to increase the F1 maximum permissable mass to 3850 which should automatically be a part of their process but according to VWE requires the operative to access a different system.

So I'm legal at 3850KG in the UK but might have an issue with the gendarmerie if I venture across the channel. My email pointing out the issue has not received a response from DVLA yet but it was only sent a week ago.

I'm happy that my tax has gone down, that actually happened faster than I expected.

When I uprated they missed my revenue weight off, I had to resend it all in to get it up to 5tons in revenue weight

 

[WESTY66]

I hope it gets sorted as I'm just about to up plate my van.


Did that to me a few years ago, it took them 4 months to get it right.

There’s no more uprating for carthagos, they’ve had their quota

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[Funnymunny]

I bet that if you downrated from 3850 to 3500 they would make sure the tax changed instantly to the higher amount

 

[Vintage_Potter]

That's an odds on bet for sure.

 

[Timbarnard61]

You got me worried so just dug out the v5 for the hymer, that arrived last Saturday 6th July shows a definite revenue weight upgrade from3500kg to 4000kg and taxation class private hgv but max permissible mass and mass in service still state 3500 so have they got it correct or not?

 

[Lenny HB]

You got me worried so just dug out the v5 for the hymer, that arrived last Saturday 6th July shows a definite revenue weight upgrade from3500kg to 4000kg and taxation class private hgv but max permissible mass and mass in service still state 3500 so have they got it correct or not?

No it's wrong a common mistake they make regularly.

 

[Timbarnard61]

Thanks will send it back with relevent letter and no doubt MOT Ins and new plate cert .

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[andyman]

Again a misinterpretation of the legislation.

M1 only defines the vehicle as designed to carry less than 8 passengers, but again all motorhomes are based on commercial vehicles, also it does not have anything to do with weight.

The only section on a V5c that can be changed (in this instance) is the Revenue Weight, which they are refusing to do.
This is a legal definition which they must abide by.

At the moment my V5c has a Max. permissible weight of 3850, but a Mass in service of 3500 (which is based on the Revenue weight 3500kg. This makes the V5c an inaccurate document, which could be used to allege it's over weight, although the VIN plate now states 3850.

What is the base vehicle, manufacturer conversion or home built.
Not completely certain on this, but if registered as M1 and then converted to a camper by a converter. It may need a CoC to change class.

 

[Timbarnard61]

Just to check the max permissible mass should show 4000kg and the mass in service 3500kg or should that be 4000kg as well ?

 

[Timbarnard61]

It's a fiat hymer uprated by sv tec from 3500 to 4000 with uprated suspension

 

[The Artilleryman]

What is the base vehicle, manufacturer conversion or home built.
Not completely certain on this, but if registered as M1 and then converted to a camper by a converter. It may need a CoC to change class.

Peugeot cab and AL-KO chasis. Bailey motorhome.

All M1 signifies is that it is a passenger carrying vehicle with 8 seats or less, so no change required.

 

[The Artilleryman]

Just to check the max permissible mass should show 4000kg and the mass in service 3500kg or should that be 4000kg as well ?

It should be 4000kg as well.

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[rob1234]

Just up plated mine last week
All seem to go ok...5 weeks it took...

 

[mpdcymru]

I once had reason to delve into how the 'Revenue Weight; definition is arrived at, and although I do not have the references to hand, 'Revenue Weight' is directly related to the Max Permissible Mass.

Therefore if the MPM changes then the Revenue weight automatically changes.

In correspondence with DVLA You should concentrate on the above, leaving out the consequences of overweight etc.

One approach would be to ask them to quote the legal sources for the definition of 'Revenue Weight'. That research may lead them to the information I gave above. You could also involve the Legal Dept. at Dept of Transport, who represent DVLA as an Agency of DoT, and because DVLA do not have their own Legal Department. Bit like their Medical Department do not have any Doctors.

definition of "revenue Weight" is to be found at Section 60A of the Vehiclees Excise and Registration Act 1994 (it is too lomg to reproduce here!)

 

[CAB96]

Again a misinterpretation of the legislation.

M1 only defines the vehicle as designed to carry less than 8 passengers, but again all motorhomes are based on commercial vehicles, also it does not have anything to do with weight.

The only section on a V5c that can be changed (in this instance) is the Revenue Weight, which they are refusing to do.
This is a legal definition which they must abide by.

At the moment my V5c has a Max. permissible weight of 3850, but a Mass in service of 3500 (which is based on the Revenue weight 3500kg. This makes the V5c an inaccurate document, which could be used to allege it's over weight, although the VIN plate now states 3850.

Is it just yours, or are there any others?

Is it cock-up or conspiracy (individual DVLA mistake or a change of policy, like the 2019 motorcaravan change?)

 

[The Artilleryman]

Not just mine SVTech were getting calls for about 2 weeks from customers who had been refused Revenue Weight increase on there V5c and they had spoken to DVLA about it, but without much success.

 

[rod_vw]

I believe I have the same problem, I will confirm when I can see the documents that have been delivered in the post. I'm not at home until next week.

If mine is incorrect I will be demanding that VED refund is made applicable to the date of the original application.