Ducato - 5th gear popping out

no if you read the post again the welds had failed and the teeth just spinning. you will only know for sure once you have removed the cover and inspected the damage
 
Thanks to everyone for this info. I've just got home to Cornwall after suffering Ducato disease yesterday, north of Glasgow. Fourth gear all the way, 55 mph and I'm knackered! As this thread is quite old now, can anyone recommend a current UK source of parts at reasonable cost?
 
Alastair said:
Thanks to everyone for this info. I've just got home to Cornwall after suffering Ducato disease yesterday, north of Glasgow. Fourth gear all the way, 55 mph and I'm knackered! As this thread is quite old now, can anyone recommend a current UK source of parts at reasonable cost?
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Sorry to hear of your woes Alastair, however, you really need to go to a Fiat Professional agent with your Chassis and Reg Nos, as they can identify which gearing was fitted, ie, number of teeth.
If you don't like their quote for the part ((and I'm sure you won't), you can then note the part numbers and do an online search for a better price. Mine had to come direct from Italy, as there wasn't a set of the correct parts anywhere within the Fiat dealerships here in Britain.

Good luck. (y)

Jock. :)
 
Thanks Jock - I'm planning on doing a strip-down at the weekend to see what's what, but will do as you suggest tomorrow. I had a look on e-bay earlier and someone is offering kits for the 2.8. Mine is a 1998 2.5 but as you say, until I know what is inside there isn't a lot of point in looking for bits!
Thanks again - I'll update when I've begun the surgery!
Alastair
 
Alastair said:
Thanks Jock - I'm planning on doing a strip-down at the weekend to see what's what, but will do as you suggest tomorrow. I had a look on e-bay earlier and someone is offering kits for the 2.8. Mine is a 1998 2.5 but as you say, until I know what is inside there isn't a lot of point in looking for bits!
Thanks again - I'll update when I've begun the surgery!
Alastair
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Once you are sure what parts you need Alastair, try these people for Fiat spares.
http://coastalmotorhomes.co.uk/site/

Cheers,

Jock. :)

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it would be worth checking the fiat eper system for the part number, if you enter you VIN number at the following link then hit enter it will display your vehicle details, then click the next button at the bottom to access the menu system. just use the menu to go into "transmission and reduction gears", then again to enter "transmissions gears", you'll then get some exploded diagrams with all the part numbers listed (for your vehicle).

http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi...INDOW_ID=1&KEY=HOME&EPER_CAT=SP&MAKE=F&SBMK=T

then remove the fifth gear with the synchro and access what's failed, for some it's the synchro, other the synchro and gear, for me last year it was just the dog teeth on the fifth gear so i only replaced the gear.

my mate owns a garage (independent) so i got the part through him, he actually sourced it from Pye motors strangely, about £170.

hope this helps
Lee
 
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That's great - thanks. From what I've read here, the basic problem seems to be the result of a variety of failures. I was thinking about it just now and wondering how often the problem recurs - once its been repaired does it eventually go again? I can't see anyone who has experienced it more than once but I may have missed it.
Off to catch up with my sleep now!
Alastair
 
My went into the garage on the back of the recovery truck in the end as it got jammed and i couldnt get any gears. it took a 5th gear kit and the gearbox to be repaired as well. wasnt a major cost, but i had a new clutch put in while everything was out.

Going back through the service history it looks like mine had a 5th gear kit fitted early on in its life, and i believe part of the trouble is through lack of use and not quite enough gearbox oil gets splashed around. When mine got rebuilt i had them put 3 litres in so it stands a better chance of reaching the 5th gear, that and using the van regularly and not going up into 5th too soon until its warmed up.

total poor design of the gear box in my view, but a common fault.
 
Big Lad said:
total poor design of the gear box in my view, but a common fault.
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It was a cheap and easy way to upgrade a four speed box, to a five speed box, and if I knew back then, what I know now, mine wouldn't have failed either. :(

Cheers,

Jock. :)
 
Just a quick update - I haven't had a chance to get to the van over the weekend because the farmyard where it lives has been full of cars belonging to visitors to the local classical music festival, but if the weather is good I'll make a start this week. Just put up an avatar - Mull last year, having forgotten to look at ground-level in my mirrors! Had to be pulled out by a recovery truck...
Alastair

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Ooops, that looks nasty, good job there wasn`t a big drop, did it cause any damage ?
 
No damage, apart from my pride! The ditch was about 5ft deep and the van ended up balanced as in the picture for four hours while the recovery people tried to find us, down a lane in a forestry view point!

Alastair
 
Well the strip-down was no problem - 15 minutes and the offending items were out. No jack needed and I didn't even have to take the wheel off.
Needless to say in my enthusiasm I let the synchro balls escape but managed to find them. The gear is a 58X35 and the teeth look very worn. The synchro has a couple of chipped teeth and although it has never been reversed I'm not going to risk it but will add it to the spares stock...
I tried my local transmission dealers for the parts and their reply was basically 'no way' but I think I've found the right ones on E-bay. We'll see -watch this space.
As regards oil, I've been trying to find a fully synthetic EP80W90, which is recommended somewhere on the forum, but with no luck. Any advice?
 
I can't advise re a source of the oil Alastair, as my mechanic pal buys his in bulk.

Alastair said:
The gear is a 58X35 and the teeth look very worn. The synchro has a couple of chipped teeth and although it has never been reversed I'm not going to risk it but will add it to the spares stock...
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That's exactly how I would describe the parts that came out of our gearbox too. We found the broken bits on the inside of the end casing, as a couple of years previous, I had attached very strong magnets to the casing, which picked up all the crap and swarf. ;)

Good luck with the source of the correct ratio gearing and synchro. (y)

Cheers,

Jock. :)
 
Thanks Jock - I couldn't find any big bits of metal but plenty of swarf, so I'll follow your example and attach some magnets, after thoroughly flushing the g/box...
Alastair

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The parts arrived today and I'm just deciding whether the weather will hold up while I do the installation! The kit I bought came from One Stop Gearbox Shop of High Wycombe, Phone:01494 956549, via E-bay and cost £230 - they advertise it as being for the 94 to 02 Ducato 2.8. While the chap I spoke to initially couldn't confirm they would fit my 1998 2.5 I took the risk and it seems to have paid off as the parts, the fifth gear cluster and synchro unit match the old ones exactly - I'll confirm that once they are fitted and the van is mobile again!
If anyone reads this in the future, it is a relatively easy task so don't be daunted by it - follow the advice provided by the other contributors and you shouldn't go wrong...
I hope those aren't famous last words.
Thanks again everyone

Alastair
 
Up and running again! The parts from E-bay were the correct ones. I've attached a picture of the drain plug - I've attached an additional magnet on the cover plate in case there are any bits left after flushing out.

Alastair
 

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Alastair said:
Up and running again! The parts from E-bay were the correct ones. I've attached a picture of the drain plug - I've attached an additional magnet on the cover plate in case there are any bits left after flushing out.

Alastair
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Hi Alastair,

I'm really pleased that you are up and running again, and at less than half the price Fiat charge for the parts.

Nice one. (y)

Jock. :)
 
I am in Northern Sweden and my fifth gear packed in half way through my trip here. I am in a 2.8 Peugeot. MPG with 5th gear was averaging 35 MPG, with only four gears it dropped to 25 MPG. This is mostly motorway driving at a casual pace. My local (Swedish) Peugeot dealer tells me it is a MG5T gearbox, hope that means something to someone, haha.
Anyway. I am going to buy the parts off Ebay and get them posted here to my daughters house and attempt the repair myself. I have looked at photos and videos of the repair and hopefully I will be up to the job.
I think I will strip the cover off before I start to count teeth and see exactly what I need.
This is the first time I have seen the synchro balls and springs mentioned. Are they easy to deal with and reassemble? Also, is the gasket a rubber gasket or silicone?
If anyone has any more pictures of the operation (Melchior) I would love to see them.
Any help and encouragement appreciated.
Stuart
 
Hi Stuart - it's a b***er when it happens but it is an easy fix. The parts I had came from e-bay and were advertised as being for the 2.8, although mine is a 1998 2.5 - they were fine. As you say, it's a good idea to check the number of teeth. The gasket is rubber and although mine didn't look brilliant it went back on and doesn't leak. I'm on the Santander to Plymouth ferry on my way home after two weeks touring through France and Spain with no further troubles (apart from improving the ventilation by typing to go through a tunnel that was too low... not recommended!
Good luck with it
Alastair

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If I was in UK I would have done it by now. Just scared of being stuck in Sweden. I am going to start the repair on Monday and will post my findings. Just a few worries such as are the syncro springs and balls a problem.
 
Sorry Stuart - I should have said that my problem with the springs and balls was my own fault for allowing the unit to come apart. It comes in one piece and carefully handled shouldn't be a problem!
Good luck again

Alastair
 
I got the cover off but the nut that needs a C spanner isn't budging. I have a small chisel and a lump hammer.
I am going to rebuild my energy over the weekend then try again on Monday. I used to be a heavy plant fitter so I am handy with a hammer, haha.
The difficult bit is laying on your back and trying to get a good swing.
I will also ask the local Pug garage what they use and try and borrow it from them.
Did your nut come off easy or was it a b***h?
 
double check there isnt a folded over locking tab
 
One tab at bottom was folded over so I straightened it. I will have to get a mirror to see if a top tab is folded over as well.
Another thing. I took the air filter box off (what a pain) but I cannot see the reverse switch that I have to remove to refill. It must be different to the one pictured.
Thanks for your speedy reply.

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Hello again - small chisel and lump hammer worked for me on the nut! From memory there was only one lock tab. I have to confess that although I was supplied with both the gears under the cover plate I only replaced the one with all the damage, containing the synchro, as others have mentioned doing, and its been no problem
Alastair.
 
Cheers Alistair. Hope you got home from your ferry ok..
Did you re-tighten the weird nut with your hammer and chisel?
How much oil did you refill with?
So many questions and so little time haha.
 
No problem! Hope my comments are of some help. Yes, I'm afraid I did use the hammer and chisel to replace it, tightening it as hard as I could. I'm sure its supposed to be torqued up but as long as its tight and the tab washer is bent back into place it isn't going anywhere...
As for the oil, I can't remember exactly how much I put in but I know I overfilled it, as mentioned in earlier posts, to aid lubrication. Getting the oil into the box was probably the most difficult bit of the job involving a long length of tubing and a funnel!
Got back from the trip - hope the rest of yours goes OK when you're mobile again

Alastair
 
I got the hammer and chisel out and the nut was not as tight as I thought. Phew. My problem is that I have the 5th gear and the syncro out and they look fine, no broken bits at all.
What to do now?
 

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