Dreams gone up in woodsmoke?

[Conal]

I, like others, am an addicted follower of @Nothernraider and have a separate fantasy life (unknown to my wife) where we sell our Autotrail Delaware, buy a suitable van for more adventurous journeys, and explore the globe! However today I read that woodburners are Satan’s children and will destroy the planet! My dreams have disappeared in woodsmoke.
Is it true that tiny particals from even the most efficient woodburners are that harmful, or is the risk one worth taking? Just asking to preserve the dream…..

 

[philann]

Drax is supplied by cutting down trees in Canada and transporting the pellets across the Atlantic. Not very sustainable really.

 

[Eggs]

Drax is supplied by cutting down trees in Canada and transporting the pellets across the Atlantic. Not very sustainable really.

They've got a yard near to Bury-St-Ed's there is always thousands of tons of sowtwood in there, mainly out of Thetford Forest. Nothing like importing from Canada but carting timber from Suffolk to Yorkshire is bad enough.

 

[Ivory55]

Did the drax power station tour and it has 4 trains every 24 hrs delivering wood chips. The train never stops, unloads and loads on the move.

 

[Eggs]

Did the drax power station tour and it has 4 trains every 24 hrs delivering wood chips. The train never stops, unloads and loads on the move.

I was having timber carted out of Kent into Suffolk because The Forestry Commission wouldn't sell to me because Drax were taking everything out of East Anglia, one of the reasons I packed up.

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[philann]

The numbers associated with Drax are amazing,
Biomass conversion at Drax led to it requiring 82% of UK biomass imports from the US in 2014 (60% overall of all US wood pellet export), a large factor in a 40% yearly increase in biomass export from that country; US sourced imports represented 58% of Drax's biomass use in 2014, with 22% from Canada.
an estimated annual total of 7.5 million tonnes in 2017. This is equivalent to two-thirds of Europe's entire energy biomass consumption in 2010, and requires 1,200,000 ha (4,600 sq mi; 12,000 km2) of forest to supply on a continuous basis.

As of 2013 there were plans to install 1 million tonne per year wood pellets pelletizing plants at Morehouse Parish, Louisiana, and Gloster, Mississippi, which would be shipped by road and rail to the port of Baton Rouge, Louisiana then shipped in 50,000-tonne cargo ships to UK.A port facility in Baton Rouge, Louisiana was completed by April 2015. In mid-2015 Drax reached an agreement with Peel Ports to construct a 3 million ton per year biomass importation facility at the Port of Liverpool, estimated cost £100 million.

 

[Jamesh]

The numbers associated with Drax are amazing,
Biomass conversion at Drax led to it requiring 82% of UK biomass imports from the US in 2014 (60% overall of all US wood pellet export), a large factor in a 40% yearly increase in biomass export from that country; US sourced imports represented 58% of Drax's biomass use in 2014, with 22% from Canada.
an estimated annual total of 7.5 million tonnes in 2017. This is equivalent to two-thirds of Europe's entire energy biomass consumption in 2010, and requires 1,200,000 ha (4,600 sq mi; 12,000 km2) of forest to supply on a continuous basis.

As of 2013 there were plans to install 1 million tonne per year wood pellets pelletizing plants at Morehouse Parish, Louisiana, and Gloster, Mississippi, which would be shipped by road and rail to the port of Baton Rouge, Louisiana then shipped in 50,000-tonne cargo ships to UK.A port facility in Baton Rouge, Louisiana was completed by April 2015. In mid-2015 Drax reached an agreement with Peel Ports to construct a 3 million ton per year biomass importation facility at the Port of Liverpool, estimated cost £100 million.

And I'm going to get rid of my woodburner?!

Not a chance!!!

 

[dash300]

With current political fuel uncertainty logs are becoming the gold standard, prefer watching my woodburner than repeats on TV!

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I’m investing in logs. I‘ve got wood…….

 

[Wabs]

Id be more worried about the crap that China is putting into air,,,I love a wood burner or open fire,, and that will never change

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[Coolcats]

I guess all these people who are anti pollution will be paying extra tax to pay for people to use electric instead of a wood burner ? Thought not.

I do believe we all contribute already via carbon tax’s including the ones that are placed on fuel flying plus lez Ulez etc.

 

[Coolcats]

Id be more worried about the crap that China is putting into air,,,I love a wood burner or open fire,, and that will never change

You mean the fuel used to manufacture products we all buy?

 

[Jamesh]

I do believe we all contribute already via carbon tax’s including the ones that are placed on fuel flying plus lez Ulez etc.

Yeap we contribute to Prius enviro puritan's tax subsidies.... Whilst they fly to klosters, Monarco and Caymen islands.....

 

[Wabs]

You mean the fuel used to manufacture products we all buy?

Exactly,and let’s face it, if we didn’t we all be running around in loin cloths and doing our hunter gathering bit

 

[TDub49]

Exactly,and let’s face it, if we didn’t we all be running around in loin cloths and doing our hunter gathering bit

What - you mean living sustainably and in tune with our natural surroundings . . .?

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[Wabs]

 

[Charente16]

Your customers were safe inside burning the wood , the people who were trying to be healthy being outside and walking their dogs have died breathing in the particles

If that was the case there would be no one alive around me, yet they are all 'hale and hardy' and most are older than me at 74 years young.
Although you might have a valid point, my ' woodman' has advised me that this year will be his last delivery as at 85 he has decided to give up and finally retire; he was a farmer before but kept up the 'forestry' side up as a side line. His sons' who took over the farm have no interest in keeping that sideline going; too much hard work, forget about the profit he made.......................

Times change, even here in the 'middle of nowhere' in France, its' now all 'Pellets'.

Robert

 

[SomeoneElse]

The thing is, unless someone knows how to take a moisture reading it will be incorret anyway. A reading is taken from a split log, not off the surface of it. Over 20% on the surface means nothing.

In reality both readings are taken and recorded. An external and an internal reading. As I said earlier three readings with three different approved meters and the average of the three used.
Quality of logs and reliability of deliveries has enabled us to keep existing customers and get new ones.

 

[jockaneezer]

We sold air dried logs as a sideline, but now we have to take them and get them kiln dried. We book up the lad's kiln for our sole use a few weeks in advance as that's the cheapest way, but it does mean we're transporting the logs quite a bit more than with the air dried ones, so probably in an effort to save the planet, we're actually speeding up its demise, but we're ticking the "environmental" box ?

 

[glenn2926]

We sold air dried logs as a sideline, but now we have to take them and get them kiln dried. We book up the lad's kiln for our sole use a few weeks in advance as that's the cheapest way, but it does mean we're transporting the logs quite a bit more than with the air dried ones, so probably in an effort to save the planet, we're actually speeding up its demise, but we're ticking the "environmental" box ?

That just about tells us all we need to know about the green rules

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[Ivory55]

What size is a log ? If 8 foot lengths are sold are they logs does it matter if they cut them smaller themselves ?

 

[Eggs]

We sold air dried logs as a sideline, but now we have to take them and get them kiln dried. We book up the lad's kiln for our sole use a few weeks in advance as that's the cheapest way, but it does mean we're transporting the logs quite a bit more than with the air dried ones, so probably in an effort to save the planet, we're actually speeding up its demise, but we're ticking the "environmental" box ?

Burning logs to dry logs only makes sense if there are subsidies still about, I doubt it?

 

[Eggs]

What size is a log ? If 8 foot lengths are sold are they logs does it matter if they cut them smaller themselves ?

Depends what quality the timber is, a wood mill will agree a spec, if it isn't right they will reject it.

I can rember talking to a forester at a trade show a few years ago who'd had a rejected load from the mill, his lads had measured using 'bar lengths" rather than using a foresters measure, all the timber was 6-8' under spec.

 

[Ivory55]

Depends what quality the timber is, a wood mill will agree a spec, if it isn't right they will reject it.

I can rember talking to a forester at a trade show a few years ago who'd had a rejected load from the mill, his lads had measured using 'bar lengths" rather than using a foresters measure, all the timber was 6-8' under spec.

I was thinking of having to test for moisture, what size is a log . If it’s X size is it a lump of timber and not need testing for moisture

 

[Eggs]

I was thinking of having to test for moisture, what size is a log . If it’s X size is it a lump of timber and not need testing for moisture

Woodsure/ready to burn have targeted the domestic market/merchants, so from around 10" in length.

Did I mention that woodsure own ready to burn who in turn are owned by Heatas

The best comparison I can come up with, if you are an honest gas engineer you've still got to pay Gas Safe to get a ticket every few years if you want to keep trading, basically a merchant will pay for a certificate, nothing more, nothing less.

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[Eggs]

In reality both readings are taken and recorded. An external and an internal reading. As I said earlier three readings with three different approved meters and the average of the three used.
Quality of logs and reliability of deliveries has enabled us to keep existing customers and get new ones.

More to the point, who's going to be hanging about while three of you are splitting logs, taking readings and doing paperwork? Most I know would tip and go, no time to fanny about in the winter.

Could you tell me more about this charity you run/help with that have firewood customers?

 

[SomeoneElse]

More to the point, who's going to be hanging about while three of you are splitting logs, taking readings and doing paperwork? Most I know would tip and go, no time to fanny about in the winter.

Could you tell me more about this charity you run/help with that have firewood customers?

No one is hanging about the rest of the volunteers are loading the vans ready for the days deliveries.
I don't run the charity I and the one of a couple of hundred volunteers.

 

[emjaiuk]

Interesting stuff. Are these figures for the UK, Europe or the world? Is the data based on all types of wood (i.e. wood pellets al la Drax power station, logs seasoned, unseasoned or kiln dried)? Are the particulates concentrated in urban areas? So many questions . . . .

I’ve no knowledge of other plants, but Charlton Lane on your list is our local ‘tip’, recently converted at a large cost and renamed an Eco-Park.
It burns rubbish, part of which may be timber on occasion.
As far as I am concerned, including it on a list of bio-mass plants devalues the whole list.

 

[Jamesh]

I’ve no knowledge of other plants, but Charlton Lane on your list is our local ‘tip’, recently converted at a large cost and renamed an Eco-Park.
It burns rubbish, part of which may be timber on occasion.
As far as I am concerned, including it on a list of bio-mass plants devalues the whole list.

Looks an efficient system much to be applauded unlike drax!

 

[highwood122]

Biomass power stations etc should be shut down or phased out and probably will once more Nuclear stations are built

the people that run this country abandoned nuclear development 30 years ago so as to burn all of our sea gas in mini gas powered generators hence Chinese and French involvement at Hinkley point and Sizewell, i personally would not buy a house within quite a large radius of either of these. SO the Russians dictate the price of our gas, the French and Chinese our electricity. it would not hurt so much if these massive increases we are to pay would make our country more independent of these kind helpful foreigners, and the politicians that made these decisions back along to make themselves look good found and striped of their fat pension for being totally not fit for purpose

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[autorouter]

he people that run this country abandoned nuclear development 30 years ago so as to burn all of our sea gas in mini gas powered generators hence Chinese and French involvement at Hinkley point and Sizewell, i personally would not buy a house within quite a large radius of either of these. SO the Russians dictate the price of our gas, the French and Chinese our electricity. it would not hurt so much if these massive increases we are to pay would make our country more independent of these kind helpful foreigners, and the politicians that made these decisions back along to make themselves look good found and striped of their fat pension for being totally not fit for purpose

This is what 'transition to a service economy' looks like.