Dreams gone up in woodsmoke?

[Conal]

I, like others, am an addicted follower of @Nothernraider and have a separate fantasy life (unknown to my wife) where we sell our Autotrail Delaware, buy a suitable van for more adventurous journeys, and explore the globe! However today I read that woodburners are Satan’s children and will destroy the planet! My dreams have disappeared in woodsmoke.
Is it true that tiny particals from even the most efficient woodburners are that harmful, or is the risk one worth taking? Just asking to preserve the dream…..

 

[Ivory55]

They are also good for making shed/barn frames, (or were on our farm) the biggest problem is sawing them

I don’t think that they bother using them nowadays, the sheds now are on an industrial scale, be it chicken or cattle sheds. They use large machine to clean them etc so the day of a few sleepers is gone really.

 

[MattR]

Smoke, particle and NOx pollution is nothing to do with climate change. One woodburner stove in the middle of the countryside won't cause any harm to anyone. A million woodburners in a city, on a windless day, can cause harm and trigger asthma attacks etc. Wood is a renewable resource, not a fossil fuel, so it doesn't contribute to CO2 accumulation and climate change.

Smoke, particles and NOx impact climate change. Smoke and particles can cool and warm the atmosphere and NOx contributes to greenhouse gasses.

 

[Trevor Wbm]

Lots of people did get to very old age using a wood burner every day of their life, so I wouldn’t be to worried, eating processed food on the other hand? ……..

Well yeah, and they're still very much in use over the cattlegrids near me, but the wood being burned now was cut a least a year ago and has been cut, stacked and drying since then.

 

[Northernraider]

Until they convince nearly all of rural france , belgium , Luxembourg, Germany austria , Italy , Greece etc to stop having woodburners and open fires i wont be batting an eye when i fit one in my vario . My carbon footprint is still far far less than even the most eco friendly house dweller.

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[autorouter]

Smoke, particles and NOx impact climate change. Smoke and particles can cool and warm the atmosphere and NOx contributes to greenhouse gasses.

Not to any measurable extent. It's a smoke-screen to blur the massive effect of CO2 from fossil fuels, and to a small extent methane from animals and gas wells.

 

[MattR]

Not to any measurable extent. It's a smoke-screen to blur the massive effect of CO2 from fossil fuels, and to a small extent methane from animals and gas wells.

I would disagree with the measurable extent and am not convinced that it is to blur CO2 and methane. It is likely to be under reported / considered as nitrogen is so fundamental to agricultural production, cutting its use would be so controversial.

 

[The Wino]

Trees are part of the natural carbon cycle. They grow, they store carbon, they die, they release carbon. A tree is part of a forest. Ideally others grow while some are harvested. If more trees are burnt than are growing sustainably, then yes there is a net carbon release. But the idea is to manage forests sustainably, not just cut them down regardless, as is happening in Brazil for example.

They are only net carbon zero if there are no fossil fuels used in growing harvesting processing and transporting them.

 

[L' Hobo]

I don’t think that they bother using them nowadays, the sheds now are on an industrial scale, be it chicken or cattle sheds. They use large machine to clean them etc so the day of a few sleepers is gone really.

Amazing, I went past, what was, our old farm, a few weeks ago and some of the substantial sleeper framed barns my father built 75yrs ago, are still standing and being used as is the concrete 'pill box' WW11 defences built shortly before then. They must have use different quality of material in those days??

 

[Ivory55]

Amazing, I went past, what was, our old farm, a few weeks ago and some of the substantial sleeper framed barns my father built 75yrs ago, are still standing and being used as is the concrete 'pill box' WW11 defences built shortly before then. They must have use different quality of material in those days??

Just looking at the chicken sheds they build now seem to be a standard model, all to suit max production and profit. Automatic feeders etc and less man power. Just don’t see railway sleepers, only concrete ones for a roadway. Think it does not count as permanent and don’t need planning etc.

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[L' Hobo]

It suddenly struck me that this thread and discussion, by a number of second vehicle motorhome owners, would certainly interest some students of............human behaviour perhaps???

 

[L' Hobo]

Just looking at the chicken sheds they build now seem to be a standard model, all to suit max production and profit. Automatic feeders etc and less man power.

You may well be right, most of our sleeper barns were built by our 'gang' of farm labourers during the winter to reuse a readily available (cheapish) material and keep the men in work.
Most farm labourers (except for key workers like Ostler and Foreman,) in those days, were 'self-employed' no work, no wages and no dole!

Even our wheat stacks were excellently thatched by 'so-called' unskilled labourers, God help them if water got in and spoilt the grain, ours never did thank goodness!

 

[Ivory55]

You may well be right, most of our sleeper barns were built by our 'gang' of farm labourers during the winter to reuse a readily available (cheapish) material and keep the men in work.
Most farm labourers (except for key workers like Ostler and Foreman,) in those days, were 'self-employed' no work, no wages and no dole!

Even our wheat stacks were excellently thatched by 'so-called' unskilled labourers, God help them if water got in and spoilt the grain, ours never did thank goodness!

A gang of workers is not seen now, a handful at most now.

 

[SomeoneElse]

On to page three and no mention of the Ready to Burn regulations which comes fully into force in May 2022.
All the small suppliers around here are already registered and supply certificated wood. IE wood that has a moisture content of less than 20%.
The charity I volunteer at has had to buy 3 moisture meters and take reading of readings of each load and calculate the average. We also have to keep a record of the source of the trees.

 

[Ivory55]

To save messing about with moisture test they will get sawdust and mix with waste engine oil and make in to bricks to burn. Haha

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[Eggs]

On to page three and no mention of the Ready to Burn regulations which comes fully into force in May 2022.
All the small suppliers around here are already registered and supply certificated wood. IE wood that has a moisture content of less than 20%.
The charity I volunteer at has had to buy 3 moisture meters and take reading of readings of each load and calculate the average. We also have to keep a record of the source of the trees.

Perhaps as it would be commercial in your case, to joe public a merchant will still be able to sell unseasoned wood as long as the customer as a minimum of two m3. I'd like to know who's going to police it.

 

[RedFrame]

Just a few biomass power stations in the UK burning wood.

Biomass Plants - UK Electricity Production

electricityproduction.uk

Add all the farms that will be burning wood for the next 19 years until the subsidies run out.

RHI Biomass Boilers | Renewable Heat Incentive Biomass Boiler Grants

RHI biomass boiler grants using the Renewable Heat Incentive is a generous UK support mechanism paid on a kWh basis for heat produced from renewable energy, including biomass.

www.farm2000.co.uk

Cheers
Red

 

[autorouter]

It is likely to be under reported / considered as nitrogen is so fundamental to agricultural production, cutting its use would be so controversial.

What has NOx got to do with agricultural production?

 

[MattR]

What has NOx got to do with agricultural production?

Have a gander: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/...plainer-greenhouse-gas-agriculture-livestock/

or this: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210603-nitrous-oxide-the-worlds-forgotten-greenhouse-gas

or this: https://www.sustainability-times.co...-a-far-more-powerful-greenhouse-gas-than-co₂/

 

[daveclare]

One of the best things we ever bought. Kept us sane and warm throughout the covid period. 20KW's of sheer heaven. Even during a British summer.

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[SomeoneElse]

Perhaps as it would be commercial in your case, to joe public a merchant will still be able to sell unseasoned wood as long as the customer as a minimum of two m3. I'd like to know who's going to police it.

Our full load is 80cuft 2.25cu metre.
We have to supply storage instructions but there is no enforcement of the end user. We must keep are large amounts of documentation that can be inspected on demand by DEFRA and the local authority. I expect enforcement and fines will be for documentation failures.
Only the minority of users have the over 2cu metre loads.

 

[Eggs]

,

Our full load is 80cuft 2.25cu metre.
We have to supply storage instructions but there is no enforcement of the end user. We must keep are large amounts of documentation that can be inspected on demand by DEFRA and the local authority. I expect enforcement and fines will be for documentation failures.
Only the minority of users have the over 2cu metre loads.

It's bonkers, a merchant could show readings of 18% in August, by January that same wood would be over 20% due to taking on moisture out of the air, so it won't be fit for sale. Unthought out rule.

Most of the merchants I've spoken to aren't going to take any notice of it until fines start getting dished out.

 

[Ivory55]

,

It's bonkers, a merchant could show readings of 18% in August, by January that same wood would be over 20% due to taking on moisture out of the air, so it won't be fit for sale. Unthought out rule.

Most of the merchants I've spoken to aren't going to take any notice of it until fines start getting dished out.

It’s just to keep the luvies quiet

 

[kevenh]

It’s just to keep the luvies quiet

The actors & actresses are not bothered, are they?

 

[autorouter]

Not to any measurable extent. It's a smoke-screen to blur the massive effect of CO2 from fossil fuels, and to a small extent methane from animals and gas wells.

OK, so I was wrong, it is measurable. When/if it's converted to N2O, it's about 300 times more effective as a greenhouse gas, but it's about 1000 times less concentrated in the atmosphere. So about 300 times less of a climate change cause than CO2. Something needs to be done, sure, but it's not a reason to get distracted from reduction of CO2 emission from fossil fuels.

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[Eggs]

It’s just to keep the luvies quiet

More to do with dipping merchants pockets to join the woodsure scheme, imo.

 

[MattR]

OK, so I was wrong, it is measurable. When/if it's converted to N2O, it's about 300 times more effective as a greenhouse gas, but it's about 1000 times less concentrated in the atmosphere. So about 300 times less of a climate change cause than CO2. Something needs to be done, sure, but it's not a reason to get distracted from reduction of CO2 emission from fossil fuels.

Did you see the articles I linked to?

 

[Madcaravanner]

Is that AKA the "Cratch"...

Wood burner in a van... I'd be making sure it is absoloutly airtight other than the vents, not using a Heath Robinson Gas bottle conversion

And I'd have a "Fire Angel" on board.

Cheers
Red.

No mate
The Craitch is the front of the boat that's open or covered with a canvas cover

The weedhatch is in the stern positioned over the propellor so that you can reach in and remove any rope /plastic/fishing line/coats / knickers from around the prop - you have to be careful making sure it's sealed or you can sink quite quickly if you don't

 

[Eggs]

No mate
The Craitch is the front of the boat that's open or covered with a canvas cover

The weedhatch is in the stern positioned over the propellor so that you can reach in and remove any rope /plastic/fishing line/coats / knickers from around the prop - you have to be careful making sure it's sealed or you can sink quite quickly if you don't

When I had my boat the stern cover was known as a pram cover or pram hood, those were the days.. down the weedhatch trying to free the prop in mid winter!

 

[gus-lopez]

Our full load is 80cuft 2.25cu metre.
We have to supply storage instructions but there is no enforcement of the end user. We must keep are large amounts of documentation that can be inspected on demand by DEFRA and the local authority. I expect enforcement and fines will be for documentation failures.
Only the minority of users have the over 2cu metre loads.

You just keep a dry piece of wood to one side & use that for the readings.

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[Eggs]

You just keep a dry piece of wood to one side & use that for the readings.

The thing is, unless someone knows how to take a moisture reading it will be incorret anyway. A reading is taken from a split log, not off the surface of it. Over 20% on the surface means nothing.