Dreams gone up in woodsmoke?

[Conal]

I, like others, am an addicted follower of @Nothernraider and have a separate fantasy life (unknown to my wife) where we sell our Autotrail Delaware, buy a suitable van for more adventurous journeys, and explore the globe! However today I read that woodburners are Satan’s children and will destroy the planet! My dreams have disappeared in woodsmoke.
Is it true that tiny particals from even the most efficient woodburners are that harmful, or is the risk one worth taking? Just asking to preserve the dream…..

 

[gus-lopez]

At least we don’t burn railway sleepers now, haha

Speak for your self.
When they replaced all the track locally we had dozens. Sealed fire it's no problem.

 

[Ivory55]

Speak for your self.
When they replaced all the track locally we had dozens. Sealed fire it's no problem.

They always burnt well when I was a kid on the open fires we all used to have. The rotten ones only get dumped anyway

 

[bigtwin]

Nice figures. How much had the emissions reduced between say 1940 and 2003?
I would hazard an awful lot, they’re probably nowhere near as high now as they were when my mum was little. For some reason you’re not complaining about their emissions.

True but, how much has vehicle emissions increased between say 1940 and 2003?
I would hazard an awful lot.

To draw meaningful conclusions it’s necessary to consider all of the factors influencing the issue.

Ian

 

[pampam]

Conal,i started off the thread about mucky woodburners,not because of pollution of atmosphere,but because i cant be bothered to dust …….ive grown lazy with old age,
years ago i lived in a caravan,it had a stove and wrapped around the flu was a chrome water tank with a tap…. It was a brilliant water heater. ,follow your dream but if you put wood /solid fuel stove in your van always have fresh air coming in and a monoxide detector best wishes pampam

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[Jamesh]

Tell the Zealots to go boil there heads, the change of direction will change again if it suits big banks, Pharma or a Governments power lobby

Or the environmental zealots too!

 

[cyberyacht]

SpeedyDux wrote "We haven't reached the end of the Pleistocene Age"

Is that something to do with Aardman Animations?

 

[Coolcats]

Twenty years ago or so we were told to buy diesel vehicles to save the planet now they are devil engines. Ten years ago we we’re told that burning wood was carbon neutral now it’s killing us.
I wish these bloody “experts” would make their minds up!

Not true in that it was the industry 'Experts' who perpetuated this myth for the metro chemic al companies who have quite a large financial interest wanted to keep thier revenues going. One Man that had it right way back in the 60's and who was laughed at and ridiculed was James Lovelock He is an absolute Genius he also puts his hands up when he gets things wrong. Hover he has been warning about Climate change since the last Millenia.

 

[highwood122]

hi, if wood burners are so bad then why does this country have wood burning power stations.the pine forests near me have been chopped down to feed them and wood pellets are imported from usa to help kill us off quicker. the powers that be are very quick to point out how many trees they have planted that are about 12 inches high but they dont say how many 40footers cut down. and dont get me started on the sapplings that are imported,along with every disease known to trees

 

[pampam]

I would also say that to compare wood burning and engine emissions is rather pointless ,altho obviously some scientists seem to be commisioned to do this,the vehicle engines are finer and will therefore stay circulating in the air longer whereas woodburners emit heavier particles which should come to ground much quicker(as proved by my tv screen)and we all know ash from wood is good for garden.
so i suppose its how the powers that be want to spin it

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[Coolcats]

hi, if wood burners are so bad then why does this country have wood burning power stations.the pine forests near me have been chopped down to feed them and wood pellets are imported from usa to help kill us off quicker. the powers that be are very quick to point out how many trees they have planted that are about 12 inches high but they dont say how many 40footers cut down. and dont get me started on the sapplings that are imported,along with every disease known to trees

Biomass power stations etc should be shut down or phased out and probably will once more Nuclear stations are built

 

[Coolcats]

I would also say that to compare wood burning and engine emissions is rather pointless ,altho obviously some scientists seem to be commisioned to do this,the vehicle engines are finer and will therefore stay circulating in the air longer whereas woodburners emit heavier particles which should come to ground much quicker(as proved by my tv screen)and we all know ash from wood is good for garden.
so i suppose its how the powers that be want to spin it

But that's probably the marketeers spin not what the climate scientists are saying

 

[dulvil]

Worry not, until 15 years ago I had a firewood yard and sold 500-600 tons of logs a year within a ten mile radius of my yard, the vast majority of my customers are still fit and well.

Your customers were safe inside burning the wood , the people who were trying to be healthy being outside and walking their dogs have died breathing in the particles

 

[Eggs]

Your customers were safe inside burning the wood , the people who were trying to be healthy being outside and walking their dogs have died breathing in the particles

Sorry, do you not think my customers didn't have dogs to walk in the same atmosphere, or do you think they all lit fires at the same time and stayed indoors until every woodburner burnt out?

 

[Nanniemate]

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[VXman]

hi, if wood burners are so bad then why does this country have wood burning power stations.the pine forests near me have been chopped down to feed them and wood pellets are imported from usa to help kill us off quicker. the powers that be are very quick to point out how many trees they have planted that are about 12 inches high but they dont say how many 40footers cut down. and dont get me started on the sapplings that are imported,along with every disease known to trees

I guess power stations have some kind of filters to minimise pollution. Also burning processed wood is not going to have the same pollution levels as chucking a dirty damp branch picked up from somewhere.

 

[The Wino]

I guess power stations have some kind of filters to minimise pollution. Also burning processed wood is not going to have the same pollution levels as chucking a dirty damp branch picked up from somewhere.

I think it's a lot more to do with finding something they can say is green but easy to turn on and off when needed. I can't see how shipping wood pellets around the world is green. I do however suspect that the burning is much more tightly controlled than woodburning stoves at home in terms of the likely emissions.

 

[Eggs]

Just a few biomass power stations in the UK burning wood.

Biomass Plants - UK Electricity Production

electricityproduction.uk

 

[TDub49]

Wood burners contribute significantly to atmospheric pollution, that’s why they are bad

• Burning wood accounts for 38% of PM2.5 emissions, compared with 12% from road transport.
• Emissions of fine particles from domestic wood burning more than doubled between 2003 and 2019, from 20,000 to 41,000 tonnes.

Interesting stuff. Are these figures for the UK, Europe or the world? Is the data based on all types of wood (i.e. wood pellets al la Drax power station, logs seasoned, unseasoned or kiln dried)? Are the particulates concentrated in urban areas? So many questions . . . .

 

[Ivory55]

I guess all these people who are anti pollution will be paying extra tax to pay for people to use electric instead of a wood burner ? Thought not.

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[jockaneezer]

I would expect the vast majority of firewood sales will be conducted by cash and therefore harder for the government to tax ?

 

[kevenh]

all these people who are anti pollution

is there a pro-pollution set of people?

 

[Eggs]

I would expect the vast majority of firewood sales will be conducted by cash and therefore harder for the government to tax ?

Small time wood guys like tree surgeons who are selling a byproduct, yes, but when you are buying in hundreds of tons a year at many thousands of pounds a lot has to go through the books.

 

[Ivory55]

I would expect the vast majority of firewood sales will be conducted by cash and therefore harder for the government to tax ?

Someone I know of was saying getting less as they have to buy in now to meet demand, I guess it depends on what scale one operates

 

[Ivory55]

is there a pro-pollution set of people?

Anti pollution but make endless pointless journeys in diesil motorhome. Humans see themselves as. Perfect but other humans are all the problem. Human nature.

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[autorouter]

Smoke, particle and NOx pollution is nothing to do with climate change. One woodburner stove in the middle of the countryside won't cause any harm to anyone. A million woodburners in a city, on a windless day, can cause harm and trigger asthma attacks etc. Wood is a renewable resource, not a fossil fuel, so it doesn't contribute to CO2 accumulation and climate change.

 

[kevenh]

nothing to do with climate change

Other than trees are storing carbon until they get burnt

 

[L' Hobo]

Worry not, until 15 years ago I had a firewood yard and sold 500-600 tons of logs a year within a ten mile radius of my yard, the vast majority of my customers are still fit and well.

Well you would say that, wouldn't you!

PS Why was it, 15yrs ago, you went into the coffin making business???

 

[L' Hobo]

Speak for your self.
When they replaced all the track locally we had dozens. Sealed fire it's no problem.

They are also good for making shed/barn frames, (or were on our farm) the biggest problem is sawing them

 

[iandsm]

Interesting stuff. Are these figures for the UK, Europe or the world? Is the data based on all types of wood (i.e. wood pellets al la Drax power station, logs seasoned, unseasoned or kiln dried)? Are the particulates concentrated in urban areas? So many questions . . . .

I have just had a woodburing stove fitted. The new regulations require these to be fitted to comply with the clean air regulations which come into force in 2022, if fitted by a HETAS engineer and certificated as such they are exempt the DEFRA regulations which, as I understand matters will ban the use of non compliant wood burning shoves in Clean air areas. Our newly fitted stove is 85% efficient as compared to an open fire (around 35%) and is totally room sealed, it exceeds the DEFRA regulations and the new legislation and the amount of emissions is minimal, such as to be insignificant provided we use only kiln dried wood, which of course we do as its the only commercially available wood. People could just burn any old bits of unseasoned of wood with a moisture content of over 18/20% and that would be in breach of the regulations.

I didn't take the decision to have the wood burner without a lot of thought but having been assured by the manufacturer and the supplying and fitting company I am satisfied that it will not present a health hazard to anyone and not only coplies with but far exceeds the present and the new regulations. The cost of gas and electricity, at least in my case, will be going up very considerably as my contract ends with the energy company so I will be saving some money as its cheaper to burn wood. Only trouble is the purchase and fitting of the wood burner is very expensive so It will take several years to pay for itself. The advantage is a cosy warmth with a real flame and an alternative source of heating and cooking when that nice Mr Putin or some other maniac does something the cut of our national energy supplies.

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[autorouter]

Other than trees are storing carbon until they get burnt

Trees are part of the natural carbon cycle. They grow, they store carbon, they die, they release carbon. A tree is part of a forest. Ideally others grow while some are harvested. If more trees are burnt than are growing sustainably, then yes there is a net carbon release. But the idea is to manage forests sustainably, not just cut them down regardless, as is happening in Brazil for example.