Domestic solar system

[the1andonly]

If you going to have storage battery, then hybrid inverter is recommended. There are two flavours: low voltage LV and high voltage HV, same as the battery packs, LV 48v and HV 360-400v.
High voltage hybrid inverters I would consider is store edge from solar edge, Fronius gen 24 and maybe sma.
Low voltage hybrid can be done with a. Second inverter like Victron, coupled to existing, or, there’s few 48v hybrid. Sma has sunny bow coupled with sunny island on 48v.
Batteries you mentioned, the pylon’s had few complains in the past, some folk had issues with some modules and no help from manufacturer.
BYD it’s a strong premium brand, haven’t heard any fails so far, they come in HV and LV packs..
Panels, I have a preference for top 5 brands of the tier 1.

Would using Ultramax batteries be appropriate/ cheaper.
Are triple solar still trading?

 

[Raul]

Would using Ultramax batteries be appropriate/ cheaper.
Are triple solar still trading?

They are still trading, you have to register. They stock large amount of good panels JA Solar Q Cells. As for the ultramax maybe two 24’s in series. Roamer are more competitive, if you ring them with a bespoke 48v pack. Also eve cells are attractive now, one bank of 280ah at 48v it’s a 14kwh of storage. You can get them from the Liverpool guy with £155 each cash on collection.

 

[MisterB]

They are still trading, you have to register. They stock large amount of good panels JA Solar Q Cells. As for the ultramax maybe two 24’s in series. Roamer are more competitive, if you ring them with a bespoke 48v pack. Also eve cells are attractive now, one bank of 280ah at 48v it’s a 14kwh of storage. You can get them from the Liverpool guy with £155 each cash on collection.

Who is the Liverpool guy? That's a good price if they're Grade A cells from what I've been looking at

Another question for anyone who has built their own battery bank, is it better to have one large battery (ie 1@ 16 x 280ah cells) or several smaller ones (ie 3@ 16 x 100ah cells)

The reason i ask is with regards to adding more batteries later, would it be ok to have different sized batteries in the battery wall, for example if I started off with one 13kw battery then added a 4kw batter further down the line would it be an issue or if I intend adding batteries further down the line should they all be the same capacity?

PS, can anyone recommend any 'battery building forums' where I may be able to get additional help/advice please?

 

[MisterB]

in answer to my own question!!

DIY Solar Power Forum

Love building DIY solar electric projects? Come hang out :D

diysolarforum.com

 

[Raul]

There is a listing on eBay, if you read the description it says exactly as above. You need to contact the guy, and as you buy 16 cells the price comes down a bit. The caveat is no warranties and no return, so on pick up you need to test the cells. I don’t have a resistance meter. The cells need to have as low as possible, or within spec resistance. If high resistance, then the cell has degradation.

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[MisterB]

There is a listing on eBay, if you read the description it says exactly as above. You need to contact the guy, and as you buy 16 cells the price comes down a bit. The caveat is no warranties and no return, so on pick up you need to test the cells. I don’t have a resistance meter. The cells need to have as low as possible, or within spec resistance. If high resistance, then the cell has degradation.

Thanks - I intended sticking with Fogstar anyway as they are guaranteed and not a lot more in cost,but was interested to learn more about them.

The more I read (research?) the more confident I am in building my own battery bank. It's a whole new world for me but I'm enjoying the ride so far ....

 

[drpeej]

If you are in a position to transfer to Octopus Energy, about a month ago they doubled the flat SEG payment from 7.5p to 15p per kWh.

From our perspective, it makes a very useful contribution.

We are with Octopus Go Faster. The SEG is still 4.1p on that tariff but we gain massively from the cheap energy during the night

 

[tinks703]

We have had solar for approx 12 years, we paid just under £12000 for a 4 kw system.
The solar system paid for itself years 7and 8. As I have a Fit number we are earn £2000 per year and have 13 years to go with the Fit arrangement as it was at the time of installation.
The installation was carried out in 3 days day 1 scaffolding day 2 panels and electrically done days 3 scaffolding removed. Yes it was expensive and bit of leg pulling.
I would do it again with the addition of storage batteries(which would mean very little being earned from solar but would reduce our elect bill).
Also I would fit a air source heat pump which I will do in 3 years time as the current models produce water temperature of around 55c which means 45c at the radiators.
I have also considered a verticle axis wind turbine as a back up to the solar system.
Think about it if I was building a house doing up a older house I would be totally independent of any gas or electric company and with rainwater collection, total independence. You can dream on.

 

[mikebeaches]

We are with Octopus Go Faster. The SEG is still 4.1p on that tariff but we gain massively from the cheap energy during the night

Interesting. Are you able to say what rates you are paying for electricity from Octopus on that tariff, and also what your standing charge is?

We moved to Octopus in the spring when we had a solar and battery package installed in February and selected a 10-month fixed price contract to buy electricity at circa 41p per unit, but only circa 25p daily standing charge. However, to my surprise, the company informed us about a month ago that they were cutting that price to circa 34p a unit, in line with the Government's energy price cap. We are a relatively low user of electricity and until now have easily generated sufficient for our own use plus a significant surplus. I realise that will change as we enter the darker months of winter.

And, for us, it was a bonus when the export price was doubled from 7.5p to 15p.

From the beginning, our account has been in credit and a couple of months ago Octopus has put us on a direct debit holiday for the foreseeable future (we were previously only paying £1 a month in any case, just to ensure a live dd was in place).

 

[drpeej]

Here are our rates (till March at least). I think we may get a shock come March although the solar yield will be increasing again then.

We now have 2 EVs which we charge almost exclusively at home.

Peter

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[mikebeaches]

Here are our rates (till March at least). I think we may get a shock come March although the solar yield will be increasing again then.

We now have 2 EVs which we charge almost exclusively at home.

Peter


View attachment 679747

Gosh those do look very good prices. Your situation is clearly quite different to ours currently, as we don't have any electric vehicles at the moment. So your total consumption of electricity will be much higher, because of running the cars. No doubt we'll move to at least one EV at some stage. I think a tipping point on that decision will be when there is a financially viable V2H system readily available, where the battery in the car can be used to extend total electricity storage for the house, when it isn't required for driving.

Octopus does seem way more innovative than other suppliers, but equally I sometimes find it challenging to get my head around all of the various options they offer. And perhaps more importantly, weighing up which of the many different tariffs might work best for us? But overall, we're pleased with what we've got at the moment. And enjoying having our own environmentally-friendly power station up on the roof.

 

[stevec]

We have had solar for approx 12 years, we paid just under £12000 for a 4 kw system.
The solar system paid for itself years 7and 8. As I have a Fit number we are earn £2000 per year and have 13 years to go with the Fit arrangement as it was at the time of installation.
The installation was carried out in 3 days day 1 scaffolding day 2 panels and electrically done days 3 scaffolding removed. Yes it was expensive and bit of leg pulling.
I would do it again with the addition of storage batteries(which would mean very little being earned from solar but would reduce our elect bill).
Also I would fit a air source heat pump which I will do in 3 years time as the current models produce water temperature of around 55c which means 45c at the radiators.
I have also considered a verticle axis wind turbine as a back up to the solar system.
Think about it if I was building a house doing up a older house I would be totally independent of any gas or electric company and with rainwater collection, total independence. You can dream on.

Is this with a south facing roof. Currently considering but roof facing east.

 

[mikebeaches]

Is this with a south facing roof. Currently considering but roof facing east.

Our roof faces predominantly east, but just a few degrees towards south.

We only had our solar installed in February, so still very early days, but one of the things that has (pleasantly) surprised me is the level of solar generation later in the day, when the sun has completely passed the panels.

On good days, when there is plenty of UV around, it's amazing just how late and how far the sun is away from the roof, but the pv output just continues, albeit at a lower rate than when the sun's rays are overhead and directly on the panels.

I'm sure if the roof faced due south the output would be even higher, but nonetheless easterly seems to work OK.

 

[Al n Val]

Is their a funster on here near and willing enough to do me a survey/quote for a decent solar installation Raul

We have stupid energy bills atm which will only get worse, circa £5k estimated for the coming year

Bearing in mind we are 70 years olds are we too late to do this kind of thing

thanks for any help
Al

 

[drpeej]

Is their a funster on here near and willing enough to do me a survey/quote for a decent solar installation Raul

We have stupid energy bills atm which will only get worse, circa £5k estimated for the coming year

Bearing in mind we are 70 years olds are we too late to do this kind of thing

thanks for any help
Al

We are the same age and assuming that you have the funds available, I think its a solid investment.

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[Al n Val]

We are the same age and assuming that you have the funds available, I think its a solid investment.

no problem with fund availability, my concerns are our roof, even though large its east facing and has 3 Velux windows which I’m sure can be worked around

the west facing roof has a large central apex with a dormer either side, their is room maybe for 2/4/6 panels west side and a lot on the east

I’m open to any advice but would like a proper experienced fitter who knows exactly what he’s doing and who won’t have my pants down

Would a proper installed system cut down on my energy bills and if so by how much if that’s possible to answer, we have gas under floor wet heating on all 4 floors and use stupid amounts of electricity

Al

 

[Raul]

Unfortunately I can’t help for that area, Kent and south east maybe.

 

[mikebeaches]

no problem with fund availability, my concerns are our roof, even though large its east facing and has 3 Velux windows which I’m sure can be worked around

the west facing roof has a large central apex with a dormer either side, their is room maybe for 2/4/6 panels west side and a lot on the east

I’m open to any advice but would like a proper experienced fitter who knows exactly what he’s doing and who won’t have my pants down

Would a proper installed system cut down on my energy bills and if so by how much if that’s possible to answer, we have gas under floor wet heating on all 4 floors and use stupid amounts of electricity

Al

Our roof is predominantly east-facing (perhaps a few degrees south of due east).

We have 2 Velux roof lights and a soil pipe that had to be worked around, but still managed an array of 20 panels, fitted in February this year. We'd previously had a huge pine tree that cast shadow across most of the roof, until the tree was taken down eighteen months ago (because it was damaging the house), otherwise we'd have done the solar much sooner.

Oh and we're in our 70s, but didn't let that stop us - we just wanted to do it. When I buy a car I don't say "how soon will I get my money back?" Just like most purchases in life.

But we are very happy with the performance so far and think it will probably prove to be a decent financial investment, as well as making a small environmental contribution.

 

[MisterB]

Is their a funster on here near and willing enough to do me a survey/quote for a decent solar installation Raul

We have stupid energy bills atm which will only get worse, circa £5k estimated for the coming year

Bearing in mind we are 70 years olds are we too late to do this kind of thing

thanks for any help
Al

You might not need solar to reduce your bills. If you can take advantage of low priced off peak electricity, you might be better off looking at a home battery system.

That way you can buy cheap electricity and store it and then use it later when rates are a lot higher.

You could add solar later (ps solar panels might not have to be on your roof, you might have garden space or a shed/garage roof in the right direction).

 

[Bessy765]

We have had 4.5 kw solar hybrid inverter and a 6.2 kWh battery £9000. Installed on our garage roof so no scaffolding req.

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[Al n Val]

Unfortunately I can’t help for that area, Kent and south east maybe.

it’s only 4 hours away Raul and free accommodation and food

The first photo is showing the east facing roof btw, it’s 61dgs NE according to my iphone compass

Also luckily i’ve access to scaffolding as my son is a builder who built the house

 

[Al n Val]

You might not need solar to reduce your bills. If you can take advantage of low priced off peak electricity, you might be better off looking at a home battery system.

That way you can buy cheap electricity and store it and then use it later when rates are a lot higher.

You could add solar later (ps solar panels might not have to be on your roof, you might have garden space or a shed/garage roof in the right direction).

No garden space or shed roofs unfortunately

What does a home battery system entail and how does it work, I prefer to get the solar fitted to take advantage of the sun tbh

 

[stevec]

Our roof faces predominantly east, but just a few degrees towards south.

We only had our solar installed in February, so still very early days, but one of the things that has (pleasantly) surprised me is the level of solar generation later in the day, when the sun has completely passed the panels.

On good days, when there is plenty of UV around, it's amazing just how late and how far the sun is away from the roof, but the pv output just continues, albeit at a lower rate than when the sun's rays are overhead and directly on the panels.

I'm sure if the roof faced due south the output would be even higher, but nonetheless easterly seems to work OK.

That’s very interesting and reassuring. I’ve got a local solar company coming round next week to quote. I’m going through the last few years electric bills to ascertain our usage.

 

[MisterB]

No garden space or shed roofs unfortunately

What does a home battery system entail and how does it work, I prefer to get the solar fitted to take advantage of the sun tbh

A home battery system works in very much the same way as a leisure battery on your motorhome works (in principle).
To simplify things, you store energy in the batteries and then use it to power whatever you want.
If you have solar, when the sun shines it will feed into your batteries and charge them up and then when it's not shining you use the power in the batteries and not have to pay the electric companies for that energy. We pay 40p per kw in peak periods but only get about 23p for each kw we feed to the grid. So I sell them it at 23p and they sell it back to me for 40p !!! Which seems perverse to me! I would rather store the energy we generate in my batteries rather than asking the electric companies to store it for me and let me pay for the privilege!

The other way to top up your battery bank is to buy cheap electricity when it's at a low rate off peak period ( if you have economy 7 or a variation) and store it in the batteries, then in the peak periods you can use that power and it will only cost you whatever you paid for it in the off peak period. As an example if we 'buy' 16kw at 7p a kw during off peak period it will cost 16 x 7 = £1.12 - which we can use later. If we used 16kw at 40p per kw it would cost £6.40, so that's a saving of £5.48 per day (365 days @ £5.48 = £2000 per year) of course all those figures are only estimated and you might not need a 16kw system. The size of the system should be matched to your usage.

It's a fully automatic system which you don't even need to touch, just get it set up and let it save you money.

I would imagine home battery systems will be the next big push and pop up companies will be knocking on a door near you in the future !!

 

[Al n Val]

A home battery system works in very much the same way as a leisure battery on your motorhome works (in principle).
To simplify things, you store energy in the batteries and then use it to power whatever you want.
If you have solar, when the sun shines it will feed into your batteries and charge them up and then when it's not shining you use the power in the batteries and not have to pay the electric companies for that energy. We pay 40p per kw in peak periods but only get about 23p for each kw we feed to the grid. So I sell them it at 23p and they sell it back to me for 40p !!! Which seems perverse to me! I would rather store the energy we generate in my batteries rather than asking the electric companies to store it for me and let me pay for the privilege!

The other way to top up your battery bank is to buy cheap electricity when it's at a low rate off peak period ( if you have economy 7 or a variation) and store it in the batteries, then in the peak periods you can use that power and it will only cost you whatever you paid for it in the off peak period. As an example if we 'buy' 16kw at 7p a kw during off peak period it will cost 16 x 7 = £1.12 - which we can use later. If we used 16kw at 40p per kw it would cost £6.40, so that's a saving of £5.48 per day (365 days @ £5.48 = £2000 per year) of course all those figures are only estimated and you might not need a 16kw system. The size of the system should be matched to your usage.

It's a fully automatic system which you don't even need to touch, just get it set up and let it save you money.

I would imagine home battery systems will be the next big push and pop up companies will be knocking on a door near you in the future !!

This sounds interesting but i’ve never heard of it before tbh, maybe I need to investigate it more

Do you have any links to click on

thanks for the info btw

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[MisterB]

I've not really seen many you tube videos explaining why it makes sense but there are lots on how to do it and a few on the benefits to them.

If you search on you tube for Electric Vehicle Man, he has one on Home Batteries Now Make A Lot Of Sense.




Spectrum Geeks also have a you tube video on it making financial sense.



If I was in your position I think I would prioritise home batteries over solar. Solar compliments home batteries and if you go batteries first you might be able to save on solar cost later down the line (as you might only need one inverter)

At a rough cost of buying off the shelf, a home battery system should be around 8k for a sizeable install. I am thinking of making my own battery bank for around 5k including an inverter and electrician to install. I am hoping to recoup my cost in 4/5 years.

 

[Al n Val]

I've not really seen many you tube videos explaining why it makes sense but there are lots on how to do it and a few on the benefits to them.

If you search on you tube for Electric Vehicle Man, he has one on Home Batteries Now Make A Lot Of Sense.




Spectrum Geeks also have a you tube video on it making financial sense.



If I was in your position I think I would prioritise home batteries over solar. Solar compliments home batteries and if you go batteries first you might be able to save on solar cost later down the line (as you might only need one inverter)

At a rough cost of buying off the shelf, a home battery system should be around 8k for a sizeable install. I am thinking of making my own battery bank for around 5k including an inverter and electrician to install. I am hoping to recoup my cost in 4/5 years.

May I ask who your energy provider is and what if any is your night rate and how long is it secured for

My son and dil are with Octopus but say they will lose the night rate early next year with no offer of a renewal and they are taking no new customers with a reduced night rate

Al

 

[MisterB]

We are also with octopus on their GO rste

 

[autorouter]

Thanks, though I thought if I had the multiplus I don't need a fronius as they both perform the same functions? I want to build my own battery bank though!

The Fronius primo just converts the solar panel power to AC voltage. The Multiplus doesn't do this. It charges batteries from AC, and converts battery power to AC. But the Multiplus is quite smart and can be configured to work well with the Fronius. Victron and Fronius have collaborated to ensure it all works well.

 

[Gaston aires]

Suffolk Country Council were running a scheme called Solar Together, you join and then at a set date installers are supposed to bid for the opportunity to quote and you get it 27% cheaper. Just had mine its from Greenscape £9818 thats for 16 panels. If I accept this quote I then have to pay Greenscape £150 to come around and do a proper quote which could be totally different. I shan't be bothering.

West Suffolk council just did this as well. Our final quote was £9000 for 12 panels incl installation, and £13000 with storage batteries.
This was on a bungalow roof south facing. Still thinking about it.
Phil

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