Do you sympathize with residents?

[Jo May]

A row in Morecambe

 

[L' Hobo]

It's about as far from the sea as you can get but there are river walks!! A local group (Scocha - who fell from grace after one member was found lacking in propriety) wrote the Hawick Sea Shanty which is brilliant. I tried to find it on Youtube but couldn't.

Yes but is the FREE carpark full of FLT's?

 

[Northernraider]

Just wondering, if you want to stay out of the UK full time, could you not apply for citizenship elsewhere?

I can understand your frustration, as a single person who has paid in for nearly twice as long as you, I haven't had any children, so No Family allowance, No calls on the NHS for any childbirth/ hospital costs, No Council Housing costs, never any dole as, most of the time in the UK, I have been Self Employed yet paying stamp!

Do you think I deserve a hefty rebate?

PS. These EXTRA services we didn't pay for but got, can you remind me,

Easier access to council houses for a start , free public toilets. Much more free parking....the list is endless. Now we're becoming a nation of charge for absolutely everything .

 

[Puddleduck]

Yes but is the FREE carpark full of FLT's?

No, there is usually space.

 

[L' Hobo]

Easier access to council houses for a start , free public toilets. Much more free parking....the list is endless. Now we're becoming a nation of charge for absolutely everything .

But most of what you mention is because of population growth.

I think you are forgetting the strikes, 3 days week etc. and it wasn't until the 80's that Maggie brought in the concept of home owning and market forces where cash is king.
Until then most of the population lived in Council Houses but these were not as easy to get as you seem to think especially if you were single.
Today, all you have to do is get your girlfriend pregnant, she claims to be single, and when the council has given her accommodation, you move in with her.
In the 40's & 50's, she would have been shunned!

When you were small, did you have rationing, family hand me down clothes etc.

There was more free parking because there was much less vehicles and as for free toilets, have you never heard of 'Spending a Penny,

It wasn't until after the war that there was the NHS and DOLE, and other benefits.

Life hasn't always been Roses!

PS. When I started my first Trucking company in the late 70's early 80's, and the repayment mortgage on my smallholding was 18.5% Maggie's recession came and, because everyone was taking their redundancy and buying transits and doing work for ridiculously low prices.
This meant no work for the proper Transport Companies and for months/years, I lived on £30 a week, starving myself to put fuel in my truck IF I got any work.
No Government gave me Furlough money, no one set up food banks, and no-one came around to help, they had their own problems.

For a time, I even had to drive a bus for another company while my trucks did nothing!

As I say, life wasn't always Roses and Thank goodness for Summer when I could eat what I grew!

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[jumartoo]

But most of what you mention is because of population growth.

I think you are forgetting the strikes, 3 days week etc. and it wasn't until the 80's that Maggie brought in the concept of home owning and market forces where cash is king.
Until then most of the population lived in Council Houses but these were not as easy to get as you seem to think especially if you were single.
Today, all you have to do is get your girlfriend pregnant, she claims to be single, and when the council has given her accommodation, you move in with her.
In the 40's & 50's, she would have been shunned!

When you were small, did you have rationing, family hand me down clothes etc.

There was more free parking because there was much less vehicles and as for free toilets, have you never heard of 'Spending a Penny,

It wasn't until after the war that there was the NHS and DOLE, and other benefits.

Life hasn't always been Roses!

PS. When I started my first Trucking company in the late 70's early 80's, and the repayment mortgage on my smallholding was 18.5% Maggie's recession came and, because everyone was taking their redundancy and buying transits and doing work for ridiculously low prices.
This meant no work for the proper Transport Companies and for months/years, I lived on £30 a week, starving myself to put fuel in my truck IF I got any work.
No Government gave me Furlough money, no one set up food banks, and no-one came around to help, they had their own problems.

For a time, I even had to drive a bus for another company while my trucks did nothing!

As I say, life wasn't always Roses and Thank goodness for Summer when I could eat what I grew!

I agree life wasn't all roses. But we didn't have so much cr@p that we wanted, even if we didn't need it!

eed it.

 

[Northernraider]

But most of what you mention is because of population growth.

I think you are forgetting the strikes, 3 days week etc. and it wasn't until the 80's that Maggie brought in the concept of home owning and market forces where cash is king.
Until then most of the population lived in Council Houses but these were not as easy to get as you seem to think especially if you were single.
Today, all you have to do is get your girlfriend pregnant, she claims to be single, and when the council has given her accommodation, you move in with her.
In the 40's & 50's, she would have been shunned!

When you were small, did you have rationing, family hand me down clothes etc.

There was more free parking because there was much less vehicles and as for free toilets, have you never heard of 'Spending a Penny,

It wasn't until after the war that there was the NHS and DOLE, and other benefits.

Life hasn't always been Roses!

PS. When I started my first Trucking company in the late 70's early 80's, and the repayment mortgage on my smallholding was 18.5% Maggie's recession came and, because everyone was taking their redundancy and buying transits and doing work for ridiculously low prices.
This meant no work for the proper Transport Companies and for months/years, I lived on £30 a week, starving myself to put fuel in my truck IF I got any work.
No Government gave me Furlough money, no one set up food banks, and no-one came around to help, they had their own problems.

For a time, I even had to drive a bus for another company while my trucks did nothing!

As I say, life wasn't always Roses and Thank goodness for Summer when I could eat what I grew!

I never said it was all roses. Just a lot different and a lot easier.
Most families could live on one wage, they could change jobs with ease . A mortgage cost on average 3x 1 person annual salary.

There were no food banks because few people needed them .

 

[L' Hobo]

I never said it was all roses. Just a lot different and a lot easier.
Most families could live on one wage, they could change jobs with ease . A mortgage cost on average 3x 1 person annual salary.

There were no food banks because few people needed them .

What decade are you talking about?

Perhaps I missed something while working abroad?

 

[Northernraider]

What decade are you talking about?

Perhaps I missed something while working abroad?

60's 70's 80's

I had 18 sets of uncles and aunts , each of which had 3-5 children. I'm the youngest of that lot.

So I grew up hearing many job changes etc etc , everyone of those aunt uncle couples had numerous council houses. Most of my older cousins also had council houses.

Few of my aunts ever worked , their husbands supported the entire family. Most were miners, dockyard workers etc


My dad had over a dozen jobs between 16 and 30 year old .

I heard many stories of him leaving a job on a morning and having another by the next morning. It was only really mid 80's before any of them ever bought houses.

Usually after the tories having lost their jobs etc

But I know that those aged 65+ generally have amnesia when the younger generation points out that life is generally a lot more shitty nowadays than it was.

And I'm well aware that somethings have improved.

But these days many need a degree in something or other to get a job collecting supermarket trolleys. They have zero chance of getting a council house and believe me that nonsense about girlfriend being pregnant etc is false ... I was told 4.5 years waiting for a house when my ex wife and I fell pregnant, so I was forced in to buying and by the same cut forced to work for a shitty company longer than I would have liked.


Anyone who seriously thinks things have improved is deluded.


You can't even apply for jobs nowadays without owning a computer , a printer and a mobile phone or landline. And claiming any benefits is an absolute joke unless you're a longterm benefit expert.

As fir strikes , I'm the son of a miner. Raised in a former mining community

Billy Eliot had nothing on me lol

 

[Markman]

I claim nothing

Maybe you don't claim but you, and all of us, do benefit from a stable society providing benefits-in-kind of about £13,000 per year (see figure 5 in ONS data linked below), i.e. roads and infrastructure (the tax on fuel doesn't come near to covering those costs; it costs 4.1% of all taxes); the police keeping the peace (also 4.1% of taxes) so that no-one steals your van the easiest way possible, by murdering you (as per South Africa, Venezuela, Haiti, etc). Ditto defence spending (5.2% to keep Putin at bay); and, unless you die prematurely, you WILL benefit from a State Pension (10.3%) and the NHS (19.8%) and maybe welfare (19.6%). FYI housing is only 1.7%.

So, unless you were a 40% tax payer you will never have been a nett contributor to society (4th quintile in fig 5, with a gross income equivalent to ~£55k/annum (in 2022 £s) as per fig 1 in ONS data)

Effects of taxes and benefits on UK household income - Office for National Statistics

The redistribution effects of individuals and households of direct and indirect taxation and benefits received in cash or kind, analysed by household type.

www.ons.gov.uk

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[Northernraider]

Maybe you don't claim but you, and all of us, do benefit from a stable society providing benefits-in-kind of about £13,000 per year (see figure 5 in ONS data linked below), i.e. roads and infrastructure (the tax on fuel doesn't come near to covering those costs; it costs 4.1% of all taxes); the police keeping the peace (also 4.1% of taxes) so that no-one steals your van the easiest way possible, by murdering you (as per South Africa, Venezuela, Haiti, etc). Ditto defence spending (5.2% to keep Putin at bay); and, unless you die prematurely, you WILL benefit from a State Pension (10.3%) and the NHS (19.8%) and maybe welfare (19.6%). FYI housing is only 1.7%.

So, unless you were a 40% tax payer you will never have been a nett contributor to society (4th quintile in fig 5, with a gross income equivalent to ~£55k/annum (in 2022 £s) as per fig 1 in ONS data)

Effects of taxes and benefits on UK household income - Office for National Statistics

The redistribution effects of individuals and households of direct and indirect taxation and benefits received in cash or kind, analysed by household type.

www.ons.gov.uk

TLDR basically you're boring me and I'm not interested.

Here's the thing .
Personally the police have never been any benefit to me only a waste of time and money. No interest in the road argument either as they're a disgrace, I'd rather have a smooth road than all the motorways, fancy bridges , stupid roundabout ornaments, cycle paths and all the other shit.

Once again IF you want to believe the bullshit and don't know how to open your eyes and follow the money .. you do you.

I'm not interested, I'll continue to do me.

 

[Pausim]

TLDR basically you're boring me and I'm not interested.

Am I supposed to know what TLDR means? It probably took me longer to Google it than it would have taken you to write something meaningful.

 

[Northernraider]

Am I supposed to know what TLDR means? It probably took me longer to Google it than it would have taken you to write something meaningful.

Likewise.

 

[Gromett]

I avoid bricks and mortar dwellings as much as possible... their occupants can be a strange lot.

JJ

Agreed. One of the very first rules I set for myself was to never park overnight outside or across from someone's house.

 

[billym]

I remember a few years back someone on here kicking off big style about someone who parked near his driveway to go and by a paper or something.

I just can't remember who it was!!

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[nicholsong]

I can see both sides. But I think it is excessive judging by the picture.

A combination of any or all of the following.

Limit the number of spaces designated for motorhomes, These probably located at either end?
Ban overnight parking entirely.
Charge for parking with a limit of one overnight per week.

At the harshest end. allow parking during the day but no occupants in the vehicle and nothing out around the vehicle like chairs, steps BBQ etc.

My personal choice would be limited parking spots dedicated to motorhomes at each end. Charged a reasonable amount say £10 for the night, with a 1 night limit.
No overnight parking anywhere else.

Other possibility is motorhomes not allowed during the day before 6pm. Then charged £10 and must leave by 10am the next day.
Day trippers could then get access to parking in their smaller cars and motorhomes could park overnight and give something back.

And will the residents of that seafront road be willing to pay for the enforcement officers?

Or will those residents expect the whole of the ratepayers to protect the residents' sea views?

 

[jumartoo]

We like to free park a lot, especially when we're in the middle of nature.

We would never park outside someone's home for longer than necessary, e.g. going to a shop, pharmacy, or doctors surgery.

That HAS to be acceptable, imo.

The problem has become the long stayers, living in their vans, and parking up for weeks, if not months, on end.

It has a knock on effect on us all and it's not going away voluntarily.

 

[Northernraider]

Agreed. One of the very first rules I set for myself was to never park overnight outside or across from someone's house.

Just aswell you're fulltime then as 90% of the members on here have vans constantly parked outside ot across from other people's houses. Unless they have them in storage.

 

[Northernraider]

We like to free park a lot, especially when we're in the middle of nature.

We would never park outside someone's home for longer than necessary, e.g. going to a shop, pharmacy, or doctors surgery.

That HAS to be acceptable, imo.

The problem has become the long stayers, living in their vans, and parking up for weeks, if not months, on end.

It has a knock on effect on us all and it's not going away voluntarily.

I had a camper ..a bright green scabby sprinter conversion parked outside my mums house for 6 months last year. ( not my camper I should add ) my bil phoned the police enquiring about it and was told it was taxed , motd and insured so perfectly legal and entitled to park there.

The owner wasn't staying in it. Never did find where he lived. .... I wasn't there at the time , I was in Spain and Morocco but I'd already told my mum there wasn't anything she could do about it and that it was doing no harm ....unfortunately the bil is a nimby so he had to phone the police.


I don't make a point of parking up outside folks houses but I have done if it's been near something I've wanted to see.

I've parked on @lennyhb driveway more than a few times too and been invited to park up on others.


At which point do we consider it to be a capital crime?

Personally as long as there's no loud music , mess being created or blatantly sat outside etc or leaving bikes or other things on pavements I see absolutely no harm in anyone being parked anywhere. If a vehicle is road legal , not causing any obstruction etc then it should be and generally is allowed to.park anywhere .

No matter what.

I'm parked up beside a beach in kefalonia at the minute ... I'm not opposite any houses but there are dozens a mere 10p yards from me yet no one gives a damm.

 

[Gromett]

And will the residents of that seafront road be willing to pay for the enforcement officers?

Or will those residents expect the whole of the ratepayers to protect the residents' sea views?

Should be self funding? If not then general taxation should fund it like all other parking.

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[Gromett]

Just aswell you're fulltime then as 90% of the members on here have vans constantly parked outside ot across from other people's houses. Unless they have them in storage.

Parking your own vehicle is different from parking in front of someone else's house.

Having lived near a train station where all and sundry would dump their car for days and even weeks and walk to the station. They did to avoid the car park fees at the station car park I am highly sensitive to house owners due to this and other experiences.

I have seen the abuse by some (but not all freeloaders) who stay for many days or even long term in one spot and spread out over the area around their van.

I say be considerate to locals, otherwise we end up getting banned and rightly so.

 

[Northernraider]

Parking your own vehicle is different from parking in front of someone else's house.

Having lived near a train station where all and sundry would dump their car for days and even weeks and walk to the station. They did to avoid the car park fees at the station car park I am highly sensitive to house owners due to this and other experiences.

I have seen the abuse by some (but not all freeloaders) who stay for many days or even long term in one spot and spread out over the area around their van.

I say be considerate to locals, otherwise we end up getting banned and rightly so.

But I've parked in front of other members houses , other members have parked in front of mine . I never asked the neighbours if it bothered them and I wouldn't expect them to ask me. So why is it different? In any way other than just a feeling or entitlement that it's the right thing to do etc.

As for parking cars near trainstations, hospitals etc etc ... again if the vehicle is road legal it's entitled to do so. The issue there is usually because either a) they're charging people to park at the train station or hospital . Which in my opinion they shouldn't. ( hospital staff and visitors shouldn't have to pay to park at a bleedin hospital) something else that never happened decades ago . And if you're using the train you're already buying a ticket you should be able to park at the station.

Or
B) the carparks at the station etc are not big enough to accommodate demand. ( want people to use public transport then provide somewhere to park the car like bus park n rides do.

I do agree that people who park up for days /weeks etc in one place like a street etc are creating problems. Leaving a mess , causing obstruction etc I wholeheartedly agree with you on those points . But I do feel that's generally people who don't have any money and are in old cheap vans because they've no other option ....for them it's sometimes difficult to find anywhere to park , many have social ties to the area they're in etc.



But all that aside , all vehicles should be treated the same when it comes to simply parking.

And motorhome manufacturers should stop making them all bloody white then it wouldn't look so obvious. If it was a row of coaches parked which let's face it you do see in many tourist places I guarantee any complaints from nimbies would be ignored.

A friend of mine lives near a council depot.... its transits and gritt lorries he has parked on his street as the depot carpark can't take the quantity.

The Dunfermline postal sorting office is another one that parks their 50 or so vans around the nearby streets and carparks.


Motorhomes are easy targets for the press and the more articles that appear in the sun and mail the more nimbies who read them will join in the moaning.

 

[jumartoo]

I had a camper ..a bright green scabby sprinter conversion parked outside my mums house for 6 months last year. ( not my camper I should add ) my bil phoned the police enquiring about it and was told it was taxed , motd and insured so perfectly legal and entitled to park there.

The owner wasn't staying in it. Never did find where he lived. .... I wasn't there at the time , I was in Spain and Morocco but I'd already told my mum there wasn't anything she could do about it and that it was doing no harm ....unfortunately the bil is a nimby so he had to phone the police.


I don't make a point of parking up outside folks houses but I have done if it's been near something I've wanted to see.

I've parked on @lennyhb driveway more than a few times too and been invited to park up on others.


At which point do we consider it to be a capital crime?

Personally as long as there's no loud music , mess being created or blatantly sat outside etc or leaving bikes or other things on pavements I see absolutely no harm in anyone being parked anywhere. If a vehicle is road legal , not causing any obstruction etc then it should be and generally is allowed to.park anywhere .

No matter what.

I'm parked up beside a beach in kefalonia at the minute ... I'm not opposite any houses but there are dozens a mere 10p yards from me yet no one gives a damm.

We don't feel it's a crime of course, but more people do.

We have long free parking stayers on the Murcia coast all winter (one has even carved out a square and had gravel delivered for his pitch!). Others have plants in pots and groundsheets to mark their space. These people aren't affecting any householders, but do the authorities allow this to continue?

More, begats more (never written that b word before ) and so the problem is compounded year on year.

Edit

There isn't an emptying point. There is irrigation water in the greenhouses behind, though

 

[Gromett]

But I've parked in front of other members houses , other members have parked in front of mine . I never asked the neighbours if it bothered them and I wouldn't expect them to ask me. So why is it different? In any way other than just a feeling or entitlement that it's the right thing to do etc.

As for parking cars near trainstations, hospitals etc etc ... again if the vehicle is road legal it's entitled to do so. The issue there is usually because either a) they're charging people to park at the train station or hospital . Which in my opinion they shouldn't. ( hospital staff and visitors shouldn't have to pay to park at a bleedin hospital) something else that never happened decades ago . And if you're using the train you're already buying a ticket you should be able to park at the station.

Or
B) the carparks at the station etc are not big enough to accommodate demand. ( want people to use public transport then provide somewhere to park the car like bus park n rides do.

I do agree that people who park up for days /weeks etc in one place like a street etc are creating problems. Leaving a mess , causing obstruction etc I wholeheartedly agree with you on those points . But I do feel that's generally people who don't have any money and are in old cheap vans because they've no other option ....for them it's sometimes difficult to find anywhere to park , many have social ties to the area they're in etc.



But all that aside , all vehicles should be treated the same when it comes to simply parking.

And motorhome manufacturers should stop making them all bloody white then it wouldn't look so obvious. If it was a row of coaches parked which let's face it you do see in many tourist places I guarantee any complaints from nimbies would be ignored.

A friend of mine lives near a council depot.... its transits and gritt lorries he has parked on his street as the depot carpark can't take the quantity.

The Dunfermline postal sorting office is another one that parks their 50 or so vans around the nearby streets and carparks.


Motorhomes are easy targets for the press and the more articles that appear in the sun and mail the more nimbies who read them will join in the moaning.

You are now talking about a single event of parking in front of a neighbours house and visa versa. You are invited, completely different.

Anyway, We are not going to agree on this so I see no benefit on discussing this further. I will stick to being extremely considerate and you can do what you do

 

[Northernraider]

We don't feel it's a crime of course, but more people do.

We have long free parking stayers on the Murcia coast all winter (one has even carved out a square and had gravel delivered for his pitch!). Others have plants in pots and groundsheets to mark their space. These people aren't affecting any householders, but do the authorities allow this to continue?

More, begats more (never written that b word before ) and so the problem is compounded year on year.

Yes and I agree with you about those folk.

I spent 2 weeks on elea beach this year it's the longest I've ever stayed in one place since covid and lockdown but the area doesn't have a problem with campers staying there . . Even the ones that have been there 6 months plus.

Most places I stay 1 or 2 days at the most.

The main issue nowadays is more and more people are buying campers and motorhomes, and more and more people are going fulltime ... I spoke to a German couple the other week who said there's literally thousands of Germans going fulltime trying to escape from Germany.


The methods councils are doing at the moment simply does not work .. it doesn't fix the problem it only moves it somewhere else.

No amount of restrictions, barriers etc will ever force me on to campsites and paid carparks . I will always find a free parking option. Until eventually there's not a free parking area in the world.

The homeless longtermers unfortunately will also never change they just move somewhere else too because they have little option .

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[Northernraider]

You are now talking about a single event of parking in front of a neighbours house and visa versa. You are invited, completely different.

Anyway, We are not going to agree on this so I see no benefit on discussing this further. I will stick to being extremely considerate and you can do what you do

I'd say overall I was extremely considerate . Hence never being asked to move etc .

I just don't pander to nimbies and I expect equal rights to drivers of other vehicles.

 

[Northernraider]

I've spent too much of my data commenting on this thread so I'm gonna pop it on unwatch and ignore.


But my last comment on this would simply be.

If you buy a property in a tourist location then you should accept and tolerate that people will visit and many will do things you might not like or can do anything about. If you can't accept it don't live there.

When I was a brick dweller and buying a house or flat it didn't matter how nice it was I avoided anything near pubs, train stations, schools etc as I knew the activities would annoy me.

So while I may appreciate the folk might find it annoying.... they can do something about it. Move


I mean who actually spends all day ...or any more than the odd 5 minutes looking out the window anyway.

Yasas

 

[L' Hobo]

But I've parked in front of other members houses , other members have parked in front of mine . I never asked the neighbours if it bothered them and I wouldn't expect them to ask me. So why is it different? In any way other than just a feeling or entitlement that it's the right thing to do etc.

As for parking cars near trainstations, hospitals etc etc ... again if the vehicle is road legal it's entitled to do so. The issue there is usually because either a) they're charging people to park at the train station or hospital . Which in my opinion they shouldn't. ( hospital staff and visitors shouldn't have to pay to park at a bleedin hospital) something else that never happened decades ago . And if you're using the train you're already buying a ticket you should be able to park at the station.

Or
B) the carparks at the station etc are not big enough to accommodate demand. ( want people to use public transport then provide somewhere to park the car like bus park n rides do.

I do agree that people who park up for days /weeks etc in one place like a street etc are creating problems. Leaving a mess , causing obstruction etc I wholeheartedly agree with you on those points . But I do feel that's generally people who don't have any money and are in old cheap vans because they've no other option ....for them it's sometimes difficult to find anywhere to park , many have social ties to the area they're in etc.



But all that aside , all vehicles should be treated the same when it comes to simply parking.

And motorhome manufacturers should stop making them all bloody white then it wouldn't look so obvious. If it was a row of coaches parked which let's face it you do see in many tourist places I guarantee any complaints from nimbies would be ignored.

A friend of mine lives near a council depot.... its transits and gritt lorries he has parked on his street as the depot carpark can't take the quantity.

The Dunfermline postal sorting office is another one that parks their 50 or so vans around the nearby streets and carparks.


Motorhomes are easy targets for the press and the more articles that appear in the sun and mail the more nimbies who read them will join in the moaning.

Can I just comment on the 'row of Coaches'?

Permit controlled Coach parking nearly everywhere has to be STRICTLY adhere to and if you do not adhere to it, your Company can be fined and banned.

If your banned, and it's a popular venue, you lose valuable reputation & business, so, with only a few rare occasions, if you see a line of Coaches', it's because the Police have given permission for them to be there!

(In the old days, Coach Companies were only issued with a small number of permits to enter Royal Parks. If you were found entering a Royal Park which included the Mall by the Gateman, ALL the company permits could be withdrawn )

 

[Dolmen]

But I know that those aged 65+ generally have amnesia when the younger generation points out that life is generally a lot more shitty nowadays than it was.

Anyone who seriously thinks things have improved is deluded.

Damn! I have amnesia and I'm deluded.

 

[L' Hobo]

Damn! I have amnesia and I'm deluded.

No! I'm Deluded.

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[Dolmen]

No! I'm Deluded.

You might be right, I can’t remember