Do you REALLY own your MH?

How does this suggestion stack up ....?

Buy it through a finance company....then settle it
They will get title and pass it to you
 
EdwardFT said:
Why does the U.K. not have a certificate of ownership of a motor vehicle, as most countries do?
Click to expand...

I wish there was such a thing. I catch The Sheriffs Are Coming and they always say the V5 is not proof of ownership. It would be nice if it did.
 
Cheshirecat57 said:
How does this suggestion stack up ....?

Buy it through a finance company....then settle it
They will get title and pass it to you
Click to expand...
Would be a lot of additional charges doing it that way. But if it means you are 100% safe then yes worth considering i would think

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Many of the vans were Chaussons & unfortunately some members of our owners group are victims. A Facebook group has been set up for any victims, so they can join forces to fight it.
 
I may have missed it but how does one check if there is a chattel mortgage in place? I bought through a dealer, who is still in business, so in the unlikely event there was I would be able to get it sorted.
 
Has anyone seen the actual finance agreement that the company signed ?
 
domf said:
I may have missed it but how does one check if there is a chattel mortgage in place? I bought through a dealer, who is still in business, so in the unlikely event there was I would be able to get it sorted.
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It won't show up on a HPI check which may mislead the buyer into believing that there is no finance secured against the MH. Theoretically, you should also do a personal search of the Register of Bills of Sale kept at the High Court, which is not easy. Logbook Loans (aka chattel mortgages) are an anomaly that requires new legislation to protect consumers because an industry Code of Practice won't solve the problem especially when the situation involves seller insolvency and/or fraud. The Government knows this, but won't make the necessary consumer protection legislation a priority even though there is a draft Bill available for Parliament to pass. There needs to be pressure put on MPs to move this up the priority list.
 
SpeedyDux said:
The Government knows this, but won't make the necessary consumer protection legislation a priority even though there is a draft Bill available for Parliament to pass. There needs to be pressure put on MPs to move this up the priority list.
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Hi Speedy, so how do we as a group put pressure on our MP s to sort this , is there a way the forum could draft a petition or something to get the ball rolling and maybe get Martin Lewis involved , I am worried cos just put deposit on a 60k van and can't afford to lose that type of money ,I will be speaking to which legal on Monday to see what I can do to protect our purchase, unfortunately I don't have the van number yet as not seen the van in the flesh.

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What a nightmare for all caught up in this scenario!! I can only imagine the stress and anguish involved in what should be a great & happy experience of buying MH and find out that you are caught in a bind like this and the potential loss. My symapsthie and I hope that good outcomes can be achieved for one and all.
It has given me quite a shock as its not something I had ever considered as a potential scenario.
Does anyone know if the situation in Germany is similar or if a different legal situation applies there. It looks like my search is leading me to the S hand market there and I am wondering how safe it may be to buy privately or even from a dealer if the same risks apply..?
 
Tamste said:
Why would buying new be any different?

What is the actual ownership status of new motorhomes on dealers forecourts?

I suppose if there is a mortgage on the motorhome, you should see it in the companies house register .. but it would be possible to operate several companies and you wouldn't then know which company took out the mortgage.
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So what’s the answer I just bought a new motor home
I used a small amount of finance with a leading bank
Surely they would not just roll over and let some other company take the vehicle ?
Worrying
 
POH said:
Hi Speedy, so how do we as a group put pressure on our MP s to sort this , is there a way the forum could draft a petition or something to get the ball rolling and maybe get Martin Lewis involved , I am worried cos just put deposit on a 60k van and can't afford to lose that type of money ,I will be speaking to which legal on Monday to see what I can do to protect our purchase, unfortunately I don't have the van number yet as not seen the van in the flesh.
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For your information:

https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/government-shelves-goods-mortgages-bill/

Broken Link Removed

As you can see, the Bill (which is uncontroversial and likely to have cross-party support) is stuck for now and awaiting its Second Reading in the House of Lords. The problem as I see it is that as long as the Covid pandemic and Brexit are taking up most of the available Parliamentary business it won't go any further.

I don't think it needs a Petition because it is already in the Parliamentary system. By all means contact Martin Lewis, and any Consumer programme on TV or Radio because that will attract attention. I still think that it needs emails to Funsters' MPs (and any Peers we happen to know) to get this Bill moved up the priority list.

Edit: there seems to be a similar Bill in the Scottish Parliament although I haven't researched it.
 
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Boy said:
So what’s the answer I just bought a new motor home
I used a small amount of finance with a leading bank
Surely they would not just roll over and let some other company take the vehicle ?
Worrying
Click to expand...

The Logbook Loan risk is always there, but my personal opinion is that it is a low risk if you buy the MH from a well-established and reputable dealership. I bought mine new over 3 years ago, wasn't worried about any secured finance, and so far nobody has come forward to claim I don't own it. Mind you if they did try it on I would fight even if they took me to Court, where I haven't lost a case yet in which I am a litigant. They would regret it.

There is some due diligence you can do on the dealership via online research. A Companies House search provides a lot of valuable information about the Company and its directors. Filed annual accounts are helpful from a historical perspective, and give an idea of how stable the company was in the recent past, but won't tell you if the company is financially stable today. Searching against the directors' names is also useful if it reveals a history of failed businesses. It can be useful to have a friend in business who can check the company's creditworthiness on your behalf.

I have never met anyone who carried out a personal search of the Register of Bills of Sale at the High Court. I haven't done this either. I don't know if it is even possible under current Covid restrictions.

As well as that, you can find reviews posted online (including this forum) which give a subjective impression of the dealership and the way it does business - always a valuable tool.

Buying privately is a bit riskier with less statutory consumer protection. Much depends on how far you trust the seller but it must be worth asking if there is any finance on the MH you are interested in buying. As well as doing a HPI check.

Edit - a Companies House search doesn't cost anything.

Find and update company information - GOV.UK

Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

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So if it can be dodgy to buy from a company , which way is the best way to sell a Motorhome and make sure you get the money ? ie. private or through a Dealer
 
Cheshirecat57 said:
How does this suggestion stack up ....?

Buy it through a finance company....then settle it
They will get title and pass it to you
Click to expand...
Thats exactly what I did as I knew I could pay it outright in a couple of years but not when I wanted it. It did cost a fair bit more doing it that way though.
 
Boy said:
So what’s the answer I just bought a new motor home
I used a small amount of finance with a leading bank
Surely they would not just roll over and let some other company take the vehicle ?
Worrying
Click to expand...
They could not care less. Buyer beware! You took a loan out with them so you lose your motor home due to the chattel mortgage and still owe your bank their loan and interest!

Sorry to be brutal but that's banking for you!
 
Many years ago bought a car on finance , which later turned out to be a ringer (went into main dealer for some work and they spotted some irregularities) anyway I then err missed some repayments. The finance company 'repossessed the car .

Anyway with the burly guys on doorstep I called the old bill they checked the docs and said sorry mate , its theirs to take just remove your personal items,In those days you had tax discs , so I did , including the fresh tax disc,

They drove off in the car, NO trade plates , or put on their transporter . Coppers didn't like the way the guys acted and were quite chatty with us and I casually mentioned I had the disc !

They then contacted traffic who pulled the car over on the motorway, checked it all over and impounded it . Turned out it was a ringer , now here's the rub, the finance company had possession of the vehicle, it then got proved it wasn't the vehicle they thought it was ! The dealership I bought from suddenly went pop overnight.

I ended up losing my deposit which was my part ex and couple of months money but the rest of the money was the finance companies problem.

So maybe a few of you affected should swap chassis numbers !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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POH said:
Hi Speedy, so how do we as a group put pressure on our MP s to sort this , is there a way the forum could draft a petition or something to get the ball rolling and maybe get Martin Lewis involved , I am worried cos just put deposit on a 60k van and can't afford to lose that type of money ,I will be speaking to which legal on Monday to see what I can do to protect our purchase, unfortunately I don't have the van number yet as not seen the van in the flesh.
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One way would be to create a Petition to get this debated in Parliament, the Petition would need to be shared through multiple agencies (pistonheads other Mo Ho forums, Citizens advice BBC, Martin Lewis etc) plus sending to all MP's and social media websites https://petition.parliament.uk including other Motoring forums, it may be useful to have someone with legal background help draft the petition. Its probably not just MoHo's that have this issue. Maybe Jim knows who would be best on this forum to help with this one
 
Tony50 said:
So if it can be dodgy to buy from a company , which way is the best way to sell a Motorhome and make sure you get the money ? ie. private or through a Dealer
Click to expand...

That's a big topic in itself. All I would say for now is that, if you are risk-averse, you should never allow a dealership (or any other agency) to have possession of your MH for sale on your behalf, on a commission-only basis. I know some have sold their MHs successfully using this method, but knowing the risks I wouldn't. I sold my previous campervan privately after advertising it online, and waited for confirmation that the money had been transferred into my bank account before letting the buyer have the keys. The transfer only took a few minutes and is quite straightforward nowadays.
 
Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is proof of ownership?
I understand that the V5 is only the current keeper and I have a receipt from the sale, but how would I prove I am the owner?
 
Jackd said:
Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is proof of ownership?
I understand that the V5 is only the current keeper and I have a receipt from the sale, but how would I prove I am the owner?
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That's the problem. In the UK there is no official document that shows proof of ownership of a vehicle. The receipt you have is only valid if the seller owned the motorhome and had the right to sell it with full title.
 
Jackd said:
Please excuse my ignorance, but what exactly is proof of ownership?
I understand that the V5 is only the current keeper and I have a receipt from the sale, but how would I prove I am the owner?
Click to expand...
The bill of sale in your name is the proof that you are the owner.

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Frightening!
Has anyone got a bucket of sand that I can put my head in please?
 
10tenmen said:
The bill of sale in your name is the proof that you are the owner.
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I am afraid not. If the seller did not have full unencumbered title, it is still owned by somebody else. That is why, in a private sale you have to make sure that you get an HPI check. Unfortunately that type of check does not show up these chattel mortgages we are referring to.
 
Is totally financing the van the safest way to go? Surely, a “Lloyd’s” etc have the ability to check ownership or any charge against the vehicle?
Sorry if I’m going over old ground
 
denisejoe said:
Its not about the repayments our daughter pays over £1000 a month rent it’s getting the large deposit together with paying large rents
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what is ridiculous is they dont accept the fact that you have been paying rent as proof you can afford a mortgage

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