Do you REALLY own your MH?

I have just been informed that the motorhome I thought I had paid for and owned
Has in fact got a chattel mortgage on it
Any ideas or help out there

Do you have a Bill of Sale document ?
Does it mention that the vehicle is free of all debts (Liens and Encumbrances)?

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Bill of Sale
 
Spose another reason to buy new.
Bought ours 2018 off a retired copper...............so i better do some checking then. 🤭
I bought ours off old-mo should I be worried? We’ve removed all the old joke books but is there anything else I should check on? 😋
 
same as we did by new and pay for it on the day. done!
and even better if they will let you pay amex, get a sh**load of points aswell plus some protection.

I have been drumming into my kids since young to save up and get a few quid behind them in the bank then use their own bank as the lender, soon as they borrow repay till the balance is back up.
Sure they waited a few years longer then their frineds for the "hot car" or the newest trainers, but now they are all in their twenties and debt free they undertsand and are thankful for the advice.

\Too many youngsters want it right now
it always bemuses me how young people will moan that they cannot afford to buy their own home but will have a brand new financed / personal lease car costing £100's of pounds a month :think:
 
Do you have a Bill of Sale document ?
Does it mention that the vehicle is free of all debts (Liens and Encumbrances)?

View attachment 452425

Bill of Sale
The seller's warranty as to title is a statutory implied term of the contract anyway.

Dollysjg should consult a solicitor about the claimed chattel mortgage. Apart from getting advice on the MH buyer's legal rights and remedies against the seller, it might be worth spending some money to check that the chattel mortgage is in fact legally valid. Some aren't valid and enforceable at all, for highly technical non-compliance reasons. It's complicated.

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So for dealer purchases, would paying £100+ on a CC be the way forward? From memory, we paid a £500 deposit to our dealer and transferred the balance on collection a couple of weeks later, pretty sure I paid the deposit by CC, probably more by luck than a shrewd move.
 
So for dealer purchases, would paying £100+ on a CC be the way forward? From memory, we paid a £500 deposit to our dealer and transferred the balance on collection a couple of weeks later, pretty sure I paid the deposit by CC, probably more by luck than a shrewd move.
I think there may be a maximum on credit card section whatever purchases - someone who knows will soon post.

The issue isn't how you pay for the vehicle but that the person selling doesn't have full title / ownership to the vehicle. In effect the seller has sold something he (or she of course) does not legally own outright.

Once upon a time I attempted to compile a set of tax accounts for a car dealer. The car dealer's stock book was a real piece of fiction as several people in the office had bought cars from him, only one of which was in the stock book and the book price at which sold was far different to the bill of sale. Other staff members had apparently bought cars that had no resemblance to the vehicles they had actually bought. I took statements from my colleagues and left the whole mess on the desk of the Managing Partner saying I was unable to participate in what was essentially fraud. I don't know the whole outcome but the firm did not complete the accounts and the dealer did not remain on our client list.
 
I bought ours off old-mo should I be worried? We’ve removed all the old joke books but is there anything else I should check on? 😋
Damp? Or is Old Mo only having that issue with the current MH he's hoping to pass on as perfect :xrofl: and just having had one careful lady owner :P :roflmto:
 
So for dealer purchases, would paying £100+ on a CC be the way forward? From memory, we paid a £500 deposit to our dealer and transferred the balance on collection a couple of weeks later, pretty sure I paid the deposit by CC, probably more by luck than a shrewd move.
Yes, that's it - we pay as much as the dealer will allow on the credit card - usually £1,000. Balance by bank transfer.

And you do only need to make part payment by credit card to gain the full protection.

The consumer credit act can be summarised as:

Pay for something costing more than £100 and up to £30,000 on credit and the provider's equally liable if something goes wrong.

 
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Pay for something costing more than £100 and up to £30,000 on credit and the provider's equally liable if something goes wrong.


That's what I was trying to remember! I knew someone would.

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Damp? Or is Old Mo only having that issue with the current MH he's hoping to pass on as perfect :xrofl: and just having had one careful lady owner :p :roflmto:
No issues there... There was a flood of some kind in his ownership but totally cosmetic from what I've found so all good...
 
A friend suffered a similar chattel mortgage issue on their horsebox. Business they purchased off went pop and the loan company looked for easy reimbursement. They are solicitors so saved legal expense but it is possible to have a defence. What they told me was that a chattel mortgage is only transferable by acceptance of ownership. The original plan will have terms and conditions and an original signature of acceptance. Since that signature of acceptance is for the mortgagee that ownership has to be transferred. The original T&C will have a section for transfer of ownership. Ask for a copy. Check the original contract used to purchase the van because they could knowingly make a reference to the transfer taking place. Even if you have not signed over ownership of the mortgage you can have agreed to intent to cover. However this was not the case for their vehicle / case and it went through the rounds of solicitors letters going back and forth with the mortgage providers who had no proof of transfer. Did not get any further. They kept the vehicle and paid no additional money or fees. But it’s like we are always told- read the small print, even if it is hundreds of pages long. The longer the small print the more they are trying to hide or get away with IME.
 
I have just been informed that the motorhome I thought I had paid for and owned
Has in fact got a chattel mortgage on it
Any ideas or help out there
Make sure it cannot be found easily just in case they attempt to seize it.
Remove the number plates if off road. Cover up the Vin number visible through the windscreen.If kept at home ensure the aforementioned + it is blocked in by another vehicle all the time.
 
I have just been informed that the motorhome I thought I had paid for and owned
Has in fact got a chattel mortgage on it
Any ideas or help out there
Who did you buy it from?

So for dealer purchases, would paying £100+ on a CC be the way forward? From memory, we paid a £500 deposit to our dealer and transferred the balance on collection a couple of weeks later, pretty sure I paid the deposit by CC, probably more by luck than a shrewd move.
Would only work if the total cost if the motorhome is under £30,000.

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I’m pretty sure mines Kosha, BUT for others, how do you find out if the goods you’re buying have a chattel or similar mortgage on them? Is it a case of waiting for someone to come knocking??

Just in case I missed it earlier in the thread or elsewhere.
 
The seller's warranty as to title is a statutory implied term of the contract anyway.

Dollysjg should consult a solicitor about the claimed chattel mortgage. Apart from getting advice on the MH buyer's legal rights and remedies against the seller, it might be worth spending some money to check that the chattel mortgage is in fact legally valid. Some aren't valid and enforceable at all, for highly technical non-compliance reasons. It's complicated.

I think the bottom line may depend on the 'Nemo Dat' rule (You can not sell what you do not own).
But as you say, Dollysjg is going to need some proper legal advice from someone who specialises in the field, not just a local CAB or Solicitor.
 
it always bemuses me how young people will moan that they cannot afford to buy their own home but will have a brand new financed / personal lease car costing £100's of pounds a month :think:
Its not about the repayments our daughter pays over £1000 a month rent it’s getting the large deposit together with paying large rents
 
Relevant thread from eBay https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Mem...from-Unbeatable-Hire-that-had-a/qaq-p/6778566

Not much consolation to anyone caught up in this but there seem to be quite a few victims out there. Maybe DVLA should be lobbied to change the V5 so that the "registered keeper" and the actual owner of the vehicle both appear on the form. Start with your local MP and local news outlets and move on to the Dept for Transport.
 
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Its not about the repayments our daughter pays over £1000 a month rent it’s getting the large deposit together with paying large rents
I should have been clearer, when living at home off the bank of parents/grandparents. My daughter rented for years before buying and yes it was not easy to raise the deposit, additionally, she also considered to cost of maintaining a property as when renting someone else pays the maintenance bills. It took a lot of persuasion for her to buy. the poor maintenance on the last rental helped with the decision and government free money for first time buyers.

They run a car that is 9 years old (paid for) and their holidays are in tents, but she is very good at picking up the offers for weekends at theme parks and has often managed to get the family away with entrances and hotels for under £80

Designer clothes have never been an issue - even as a teenager she never ran with the crowd

She did make a financial mistake and didn't ask for help when she first went to Uni and yes she was bailed out by the family bank but had to pay back every penny. (interest free and it was only a few £100's)

She learnt the lesson If you can't afford it don't have it. As for her other half, he would have everything on the never never if she would let him including the unnecessary new car every 2 years :doh::laughing:

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Not that we thought for one moment about this particular situation arising with the dealer we were buying from, but we took out 9 interest only credit cards and paid for the van that way.

It gave us up to 2 years to pay off the van, meaning we were paid interest whilst money in out account (albeit small %) ans also the protection from the Credit Cards should something untoward happen
 
same as we did by new and pay for it on the day. done!
and even better if they will let you pay amex, get a sh**load of points aswell plus some protection.

I have been drumming into my kids since young to save up and get a few quid behind them in the bank then use their own bank as the lender, soon as they borrow repay till the balance is back up.
Sure they waited a few years longer then their frineds for the "hot car" or the newest trainers, but now they are all in their twenties and debt free they undertsand and are thankful for the advice.

\Too many youngsters want it ALL right now
From listening to that radio report and the interview with the boss of the firm I deduce he is guilty of committing fraud, by apply rather simplistic interpretations to his chattel loan agreements, so simplistic he may avoid criminal charges.
He says once he has taken out a loan on a vans vin number he is free to sell it at any time by simply substituting another vehicles vin in place of the original
So what is stopping him from putting yours down as a substitute (They should be new vans by all accounts, it matters not how you pay for them either you are buying from him as the dealer not the Manf.

Advice to all and any buyers new-second hand and cash in particular
I would see a solicitor and get him to draw up a legally enforceable document stating your Vin NO vehicle is is their or their companies exclusive property to sell, and is free from all and any fiance or lien agreements
if they sign that when selling and a loan is attached then a clear case of Fraud will exist, and you can demonstrate in any court you have taken all reasonable steps to secure an honest purchase. IMHO
 
I have just been informed that the motorhome I thought I had paid for and owned
Has in fact got a chattel mortgage on it
Any ideas or help out there
The chattel mortgage should have been registered in the High court and will not be enforceable by a lender holding the mortgage as security as against you as buyer of the vehicle in good faith. Go to a solicitor soonest.
 
The chattel mortgage should have been registered in the High court and will not be enforceable by a lender holding the mortgage as security as against you as buyer of the vehicle in good faith. Go to a solicitor soonest.
sadly this has been going on for years with cars 'log book loans' as such :(
 
sadly this has been going on for years with cars 'log book loans' as such :(
Indeed. It's a scandal. But a lot of innocent purchasers receive letters from liquidators and/or administrators demanding the return of a vehicle (or preferably a money payment) subject to a chattel asset mortgage and people need to check that the mortgage has been correctly drawn up and registered. If not, they're not generally enforceable.

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From listening to that radio report and the interview with the boss of the firm I deduce he is guilty of committing fraud, by apply rather simplistic interpretations to his chattel loan agreements, so simplistic he may avoid criminal charges.
He says once he has taken out a loan on a vans vin number he is free to sell it at any time by simply substituting another vehicles vin in place of the original
So what is stopping him from putting yours down as a substitute (They should be new vans by all accounts, it matters not how you pay for them either you are buying from him as the dealer not the Manf.

Advice to all and any buyers new-second hand and cash in particular
I would see a solicitor and get him to draw up a legally enforceable document stating your Vin NO vehicle is is their or their companies exclusive property to sell, and is free from all and any fiance or lien agreements
if they sign that when selling and a loan is attached then a clear case of Fraud will exist, and you can demonstrate in any court you have taken all reasonable steps to secure an honest purchase. IMHO
Not if paid cash in full to buy the product from brand new surely.

If it were to be the case the "seller/dealer" would be in breach of the loan agreement to the mortgage company by selling the items outright that was secured and therefore they liable to them .
 
Not if paid cash in full to buy the product from brand new surely.

If it were to be the case the "seller/dealer" would be in breach of the loan agreement to the mortgage company by selling the items outright that was secured and therefore they liable to them .
Why not? its his before its yours, he could secure a loan on it as soon as he has a vin number and yes he would be in breech seems to me best way to pay is with finance.at least its their problem till its paid for, and you can bet they get to know about any loans on it before they will finance it
 
Why not? its his before its yours, he could secure a loan on it as soon as he has a vin number and yes he would be in breech seems to me best way to pay is with finance.at least its their problem till its paid for, and you can bet they get to know about any loans on it before they will finance it
Oh yeah he can do it but the problme lies with him not you as he sold the asset, not financed it. So he will be liable to them not the NEW "owner"
 
Just listened to a tale of woe on BBC Radio 4 - on the consumer programme You and yours

Lady bought an ex-rental motorhome in good faith from Ubeatable Motorhome Hire for £24k+ in 2018.

In August this year, out of the blue, she received a letter from a solicitor advising she didn't own the van, and it sounded as though she'll lose it!

Apparently, there are a number of folk in a similar position. Also a significant number of people who invested in buying a new motorhome using a chattel mortgage, have been caught out too.

The recording is on the BBC Sounds website or app: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000pfcs and the story begins at exactly 23 minutes and 50 seconds in to the programme and lasts for just under 7 minutes.

It's a sobering story... :unsure:
I’ve followed this one on Facebook and it’s not just been her that’s been so unlucky. The directors got investment from a investment company. Bought the vans through the correct route I e brand new. No finance or that sort of thing. They hired them out and then when the company was going under privately sold them. There wasn’t any concerns finance wise from the new buyers who done the proper research. Now the investment company wants the money back and the vans belong to them. Legally nothing the new owners can do so say. The directors have done a runner with the money. Terrible
Edit to add the women I followed storey of had spent 60k on a year old roller team van. Apparently used lots in hire companies
 
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Oh yeah he can do it but the problme lies with him not you as he sold the asset, not financed it. So he will be liable to them not the NEW "owner"
Fraid you missed the point the loan would have been secured on it before you took legal possession,that is whats been happening the motor homes are not his to sell.
You are of course free to believe as you wish.

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