Controversial! Why Solar can damage your batteries!

[Allanm]

Typical isn't it, I have been using a solar panel to keep my car battery topped up for a couple of years, when I am not using it for a while. Went out in the car a few days ago and didn't put the panel on when I got back. Went to start the car today, nothing. Not even a dim light from the dash. So, checked the battery and its measuring 8.6V! Not good, looks like a couple of cells have died. I was starting to think the solar panel had some part in its failure.
Then I looked at the date of the battery, it was 20/12/02. Fitted to the car from new, in early 2003!
Not bad, never had a battery last 12 years before......

 

[dabhand]

Minor correction to the above - I have referred to the solar regulator as LRS1218 (or 1216). It should just be LR1218 - apologies for any confusion.

Hi Philip, I have just read your post, if I may say, a truly considered response, thank you very much. I'm sorry for not getting back to you it's been a pretty awful day really. Mains electricity off all day, dentist appointment, doctors appointment and a buggered electroblock, due to my heavy handedness.

After sitting up to the very early hours reading about the electroblock etc to decide on a plan of action, (my last post) I eventually went to bed, got up 3 hours later and went to the dentist came home and commenced the job in hand.

To cut a long story short, procedure went fine until it came to changing the switch on the EBL to Blei-Saure. It was impossible to see what position it was in because of all the wires, handbreak etc that were in the way. I made a gadgy up so I could bend it around everything to flick the switch, however, couldn't tell if switch had been flicked as couldn't see properly, couldn't leave it so removed drivers seat and seat assembly, no mean feat in itself, as access to the bolts was very restricted. With the seat and assembly removed (after several hours) it became clear that I had destroyed the switch as there was nothing to see (or flick). On further investigation in transpires that my Electrobloc has a green cover instead of blue which means it is not a Schaudt, (another long story) now I am sure that the EBL can be fixed however , I do not have the time to do this, (supposed to be going to Southport rally tomorrow, and I can't get a recon swap as it's not a Schaudt and the dealers won't take it in part ex. I have arranged for a guy to come and either repair my EBL on site (doubtful) or fit a new EBL tomorrow. I am not looking forward to replacing the seat and assembly. With a bit of luck I might just get away. It's one of those situations where I've just had to bite the bullet or I'd go bonkers.

The new batteries will fit as I've installed them and they are waiting to be wired up. they are in a vented locker on the outside of the van, so should be safe enough, although thanks for your concern, regarding whether an incorrect setting on the EBL/LAS can cause damage, I must admit to being a bit baffled here, with everything presumably set to gel previously, why does this not effect the vehicle battery which I'm pretty sure is lead acid?

 

[Organplayer]

Following on from another thread where I mentioned that we don't have solar panels, here is my reasoning-

In my industry, our electrically powered machines are run by good old open lead acid traction batteries. Traction monoblocs are my chosen method of running our habitation electrics.
All the batteries supplied to our customers are covered by a manufacturers warranty of 5 years. This is not a warranty of averages, this is a warranty based on 250 cycles a year at a 6 hour discharge rate. The battery useage can be easily monitored by means of downloading the cycle data from the chargers.
Now, the number one reason for warranty rejection by our suppliers is 'customer opportune charging'. This means the battery user is putting the battery on charge for short periods, often on breaks or between shifts, in an effort to top up the battery charge.
The result of this 'opportune charging' is that the battery capacity gradually falls and thus more opportune charging is applied in an effort to complete the days work. This trend destroys the battery cells through gradual sulphation.

Here is the explanation-

Sulfation occurs when a lead acid battery is deprived of a full charge. This is common with starter batteries in cars driven in the city with load-hungry accessories. A motor in idle or at low speed cannot charge the battery sufficiently.

Electric wheelchairs have a similar problem in that the users might not charge the battery long enough. An eight-hour charge during the night when the chair is free is not enough. Lead acid must periodically be charged 14–16 hours to attain full saturation. This may be the reason why wheelchair batteries last only two years, whereas golf car batteries deliver twice the service life. Longer leisure time allows golf car batteries to get the fully saturated charge.

Solar cells and wind turbines do not always provide sufficient charge, and lead acid banks succumb to sulfation. This happens in remote parts of the world where villagers draw generous amounts of electricity with insufficient renewable resources to charge the batteries. The result is a short battery life. Only a periodic fully saturated charge could solve the problem, but without an electrical grid at their disposal, this is almost impossible. An alternative is using lithium-ion, a battery that is forgiving to a partial charge, but this would cost about six-times as much as lead acid.

What is sulfation? During use, small sulfate crystals form, but these are normal and are not harmful. During prolonged charge deprivation, however, the amorphous lead sulfate converts to a stable crystalline that deposits on the negative plates. This leads to the development of large crystals, which reduce the battery’s active material that is responsible for high capacity and low resistance. Sulfation also lowers charge acceptance. Sulfation charging will take longer because of elevated internal resistance.

OK, so back to the title of this thread-

Solar power cannot guarantee to fully charge your batteries, especially in winter. Likewise, neither can a conventional split charge system.

The only way to prevent gradual sulphation of your batteries is completing a full charge cycle by means of a B2B charger or the MH's built in charger.

Any questions?

 

[Organplayer]

This battery situation/problems etc I find bbbbaflin. I have been reading elsewhere that the battery worth consideration is the Bosch S5. For those of us who are technically minded there is an information diagram put out by Bosch which shows the construction and materials used in the manufacture of this battery. Thanks for all the info on this though. Best wishes.

 

[JeanLuc]

The new batteries will fit as I've installed them and they are waiting to be wired up. they are in a vented locker on the outside of the van, so should be safe enough, although thanks for your concern, regarding whether an incorrect setting on the EBL/LAS can cause damage, I must admit to being a bit baffled here, with everything presumably set to gel previously, why does this not effect the vehicle battery which I'm pretty sure is lead acid?

The starter battery does not get charged by the multi-stage charging process: it is float-charged only at a maximum of 2 amps. The battery selector switch affects the multi-stage charging programme that is used for the leisure batteries.

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[Sallytrafic]

I'd better ask for my old job back and uninstall all the lighthouses and light vessels that I have installed with solar systems! Jon makes a good point but it is not solar that damages batteries but incorrect charging regimes. I have yet to see solar regulator which copes with all scenarios correctly as well as give full charge when there isn't enough insolation (sun)! so as with many things the human hand and brain has to play a part too. For example very time some solar regulators receive useful energy they go into the bulk stage of charging and then hold the batteries at a high voltage for a couple of hours now this is a good thing every now and again but not every day and too much of a good thing isn't so good for the life of your batteries. So what I do when not using the van is isolate the panels for a week or so then switch the panels back on again and if the batteries don't get a full charge then (and I am on my home hookup) switch on my 4 stage charger which is normally left off. Having a panel isolating switch is an easy mod for most people and quite a useful feature.