Controversial! Why Solar can damage your batteries!

[jonandshell]

Is it true that Gel cell batteries are not as prone to sulfation as wet lead acid.

Not sure, I will have to ask our battery bloke next time I see him!
I am sure you can't desulphate then though. The gel won't support the high voltage and current flow required for a desulphation charge.
Under heavy currents and heat, the gel bubbles and electron movement becomes slow. This is irreversible.
That is why gel batteries must be charged at a slower rate than open lead acid to avoid permanent battery damage.

 

[jonandshell]

Off to the NEC show soon!

You'll spot me protesting around the solar panel traders with the placard demanding better working conditions and equal rights for batteries!

Remember, despite the crimes posted today, the statistics say that your battery is very unlikely to become a victim of crime.
Sleep well and goodnight!

 

[DuxDeluxe]

More like good morning!!

Still managing the battery risk, but as you can see, I lost sleep over it. Not much, though........

 

[movan]

......... sometimes I'm glad I'm thick.. I don't understand any of this ..... it would only give me something else to worry about if I did..

 

[funflair]

Nice bit of light reading for anybody who is interested.

http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/battery-basics.html

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[funflair]

......... sometimes I'm glad I'm thick.. I don't understand any of this ..... it would only give me something else to worry about if I did..

Hi Joy

A good rule of thumb would be if the lights work your battery is OK

 

[movan]

Hi Joy

A good rule of thumb would be if the lights work your battery is OK

Thank you......

 

[scotjimland]

I've not made a comment simply because I have never had or needed solar.. but in principal agree with Jon's post... and having been involved with many industrial UPS systems, on and off shore, and also maintaining electric fork lift trucks when training as an apprentice have more than enough practical experience.

Essentially what he is saying, a lead acid battery will give the best possible service if it is discharged down to around 50% then recharged fully with a proper four state charger..

An ounce of practical experience (which Jon has in abundance) is worth more than a kiloton of Google degrees ..

Basically what I am saying is, if you have solar and are happy how it performs.. great.. that's worth more than a thousand theories.. or Google degrees in batteries.. , just be aware it may (not will) shorten the life of the battery.. and for many, that is quite acceptable.

 

[Cal54]

......... sometimes I'm glad I'm thick.. I don't understand any of this ..... it would only give me something else to worry about if I did..

Thank god I'm not the only one that doesn't understand all this stuff - especially as I have just had solar panel fitted at Lincoln show!!

 

[Jim]

My batteries cost £75 each and after just 7 years of being topped up everyday by solar panels, they were trashed.

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[Welsh girl]

So why are some batteries sealed for life and some older type ones needed filling up with water as I remember them?

 

[scotjimland]

My batteries cost £75 each and after just 7 years of being topped up everyday by solar panels, they were trashed.

you forget to mention you also have a bat to bat charger

 

[magicsurfbus]

My Elecsol Carbon Fibre leisure battery is coming up for 7 years old and has been trickle charged from the 85W solar panel for most of its life while in storage. It has discharged two or three times over winter and its resting voltage at night when the solar's off remains a steady 12.8v. It gets the occasional burst on EHU at home but we rarely if ever hook up on holiday trips. It still provides all of our power needs but we're not heavy electricity users. It cost me £110 new and I'm happy to go with whatever works regardless of the science. When it packs up I'll be getting another just like it.

 

[funflair]

My batteries cost £75 each and after just 7 years of being topped up everyday by solar panels, they were trashed.

There you go, proves that theory.

 

[Jim]

you forget to mention you also have a bat to bat charger

Never had a B2B at that time. My current set of batteries are only 6 months old

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[funflair]

So why are some batteries sealed for life and some older type ones needed filling up with water as I remember them?

Sealed/maintenance free is a development of the original open cell, for your convenience. In the sealed or maintenance free flooded lead acid any evaporation is recombined with the electrolyte so you don't need to top up, somebody will come along and say the maintenance free are no good as you can't trust the system to keep the levels up and you can't get in to check it.

 

[JockandRita]

Our 3 x Elecsol 100Ah batteries were seven years old too when they gave up. At that age I was well pleased.

2 x 6v T105 Trojans in place now (fitting and rewiring courtesy of Jon ) assisted by 2 x 85 watt solar panels, a Sterling B2B, and of course, the four stage Schaudt EBL 4-105 Elektroblock. If they last seven years or more, I'll be equally happy.

Cheers,

Jock.

BTW Jon, thanks for the interesting post at the top.

 

[iandsm]

So presumably micro- hybrid AGM batteries were developed to counter the problems that occur ordinary batteries in stop start city driving, never fully charging and being asked for large bursts of power to restart engines.

 

[Theonlysue]

One of my friends who is an expert on electrickey, suggested if the batteries seem to be going down, let them drop right low two or three times, with a really long charge inbetween, say a couple of days.

 

[Mike B]

Cliff had a lecturer at college years ago who used to be an officer who worked on submarines and whose duties were maintenance of battery banks which on a diesel submarine was the most important job. He told us for maximum life on a lead acid battery they need to be periodically discharged fairly rapidly them brought back up to a full charge but not too quickly. His theory being that this practice descaled the plates. He said in the real world where we all need to use our batteries all the time it's a very difficult thing to so as a rule.

As an ex-submariner of the electrical branch who served on diesel/electric subs I would argue with this comment, he may well have been RESPONSIBLE as the electrical officer, but to state he actually maintained them, well,

One of the things we would regularly do on giving the subs batteries a full charge was to 'Gas' them for 1-2 hours above the main charge. The purpose of this was to help break down any Sulphating that occurred, so I was really surprised when I left the RN to find that only was this not common practice with regards to lead acid batteries, but was actually frowned upon and considered bad practice. It hasn't been a problem up till now and perhaps still isn't, but I wonder if it would prolong the life of the battery.

Gassing is dangerous, never, ever do it in a confined space, remove the battery to an outside space if you ever do 'Gas' it. No naked lights, cigarettes etc near a gassing battery.

On or around 30 September 1971 two battery related explosions were recorded, one of which killed an individual and injured fourteen others, on board HMS Alliance when gassing the batteries and these people knew what they were doing.

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[PhilandMena]

I thought most leisure batteries were either AGM or Gel batteries. How would these be affected I wonder. Also, 250 cycles does not sound a lot? Mine are quoted at 1000 and there only mid range AGM batteries. (Now discontinued).

 

[mitzimad]

which killed an individual and injured fourteen others
these people knew what they were doing
evidence seems to suggest they didnt

 

[Mike B]

which killed an individual and injured fourteen others
these people knew what they were doing
evidence seems to suggest they didnt

The 'spark' that ignited the gas could have been faulty equipment as opposed to incorrect procedure, or do you know something that would suggest otherwise?

 

[Don Quixote]

Interesting subject, however as a solar panel only "tops up" a battery/batteries and can never fully charge a battery/batteries, I understand what the OP is trying to say.

 

[wizzer59]

Of course its the reg thats the important component here, some are better than others

everyone goes on about needing to FULLY charge your batterys, how do we know when they are fully charged or not?

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[vwalan]

all i know is if i switch my inverter on it shows battery voltage . at the moment in dull sky its showing 14,20 volts . the regulator keeps cutting in and out . if out the batteries drop to 14,12 volts for awhile then back to 14,20volts . thats as high as they go . i,m not using anything off them at the moment . i want them full ready for off . then they will power lots of things while away .
they have been powering my house fridge plus seperate deep freeze and a few other items all summer untill last weekend when i decided to let the batteries have a rest.
the inverter hasnt been off since last nov when i left for spain . its been a good autumn this year normally its switched off a few weeks before .as the darker dasys come in .
using it saves about 25-30p a day. on my mains leccy.

 

[Mike B]

Of course its the reg thats the important component here, some are better than others

everyone goes on about needing to FULLY charge your batterys, how do we know when they are fully charged or not?

specific gravity = 1.265 - 1.280 At 26C

 

[CazPaul]

all i know is if i switch my inverter on it shows battery voltage . at the moment in dull sky its showing 14,20 volts . the regulator keeps cutting in and out . if out the batteries drop to 14,12 volts for awhile then back to 14,20volts . thats as high as they go . i,m not using anything off them at the moment . i want them full ready for off . then they will power lots of things while away .
they have been powering my house fridge plus seperate deep freeze and a few other items all summer untill last weekend when i decided to let the batteries have a rest.
the inverter hasnt been off since last nov when i left for spain . its been a good autumn this year normally its switched off a few weeks before .as the darker dasys come in .
using it saves about 25-30p a day. on my mains leccy.

I thought that they should revert to a float charge of around 13.2 if not using/storage etc, to protect the batteries.

Paul.

 

[vwalan]

they may do . at the moment they havent . this is the first day they have got there.

 

[JockandRita]

On or around 30 September 1971 two battery related explosions were recorded, one of which killed an individual and injured fourteen others, on board HMS Alliance when gassing the batteries and these people knew what they were doing.

Certainly not as drastic nor tragic thankfully, but back in the late 80s/early 90s, one of our Brigade mechanics (and not a Firefighter I hasten to add ) had an appliance battery bank on a fast boost charge, to get it started. After about 20 mins, he disconnected the boost charger, and with fag in mouth, he popped his head into the battery locker and......................BOOM. The whole battery bank exploded in his face. He was very lucky to get away with minor injuries, but it highlighted the dangers when working with batteries, and not taking the correct precaustions. He clearly wasn't.

Cheers,

Jock.

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