Charging Fogstar 460 for the first time

[jezport]

I suspect you need to leave it on charge so that the balancing process can be completed. Those look well out of balance and with cell 1 so low potentially damaged?

Fogstar say it may be cell 1 has a larger capacity hence why it doesnt fully charge. However they have agreed to swap the battery.

 

[olley]

Can you download the battery history off your phone?

 

[jezport]

Can you download the battery history off your phone?

No cant download history or protect history. But believe the COV protect stops the charging when one cell hits 3.65v and then if the battery shows 100% charge even if the other cells are lower.

 

[Poutie57]

I’ve got exactly the same problem with my TN lithium battery took it back to the retailer earlier this year they rebalanced it for me, I’ve just gone away and it’s happened again I’m not on ehu so they can’t rebalance through the B2b so basically I’ve had to take it out and put my spare lead acid in and bang works great no going flat on me. Makes me wonder if it’s worth the hassle and expense of going lithium

 

[Lenny HB]

Just fired up the Bluetooth on Tam's (Northernraider ) new 105ah Fogstar, not been on charge yet. It's sitting at 18% cell balance within 4mv.

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[jezport]

Just fired up the Bluetooth on Tam's (Northernraider ) new 105ah Fogstar, not been on charge yet. It's sitting at 18% cell balance within 4mv.

My battery only goes off balance in the last 10 minutes of charge, its under 4mv most the time.

 

[jezport]

What difference is actually acceptable?
Why does my battery stay balanced until near the end of charge? Yet under load or sat it levels out?

 

[zac]

So my brand new 460ah fogstar battery was put on charge a few days ago as it's being installed tomorrow and this was the screenshot i took and then once its charged which was 52 hours later (CTEK CSONE charger at max of 8ah).

Been onto fogstar and they say its normal for the first 5-6 cycles and it will sort itself out as i questioned why it was 100% but only showing 457ah

 

[Ditcha]

What difference is actually acceptable?
Why does my battery stay balanced until near the end of charge? Yet under load or sat it levels out?

Your cells are not perfectly matched in voltage and internal resistance perfectly matched cells with not go out of balance, balancing make not so good cells better than they actually are.

 

[Neil S]

Sorry to hijack the thread but what does this mean ?
Is there anything not correct with these readings
Im on EHU at the moment

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[jezport]

So my brand new 460ah fogstar battery was put on charge a few days ago as it's being install tomorrow and this was the screenshot i took and then once its charged which was 52 hours later (CTEK CSONE charger at max of 8ah).

Been onto fogstar and they say its normal for the first 5-6 cycles and it will sort itself out as i questioned why it was 100% but only showing 457ah

View attachment 802213 View attachment 802215 View attachment 802216 View attachment 802217

It's

Sorry to hijack the thread but what does this mean ?
Is there anything not correct with these readings
Im on EHU at the moment
View attachment 802223View attachment 802224

There's no charge coming in. Doesn't look like it's finished charging

 

[Ditcha]

So my brand new 460ah fogstar battery was put on charge a few days ago as it's being install tomorrow and this was the screenshot i took and then once its charged which was 52 hours later (CTEK CSONE charger at max of 8ah).

Been onto fogstar and they say its normal for the first 5-6 cycles and it will sort itself out as i questioned why it was 100% but only showing 457ah

View attachment 802213 View attachment 802215 View attachment 802216 View attachment 802217

See this is what I don't really understand a new battery should be received in its best condition ie top balanced and ready to go with very little imbalance, it's almost as if you have to do the top balancing yourself relying on the the bms to match the cells up when according to the sales blur they are perfectly matched grade A eve cells

 

[zac]

See this is what I don't really understand a new battery should be received in its best condition ie top balanced and ready to go with very little imbalance, it's almost as if you have to do the top balancing yourself relying on the the bms to match the cells up when according to the sales blur they are perfectly matched grade A eve cells

No idea what so ever but i know if i have a problem their support is good and it will be sorted.

 

[RedFrame]

See this is what I don't really understand a new battery should be received in its best condition ie top balanced and ready to go with very little imbalance, it's almost as if you have to do the top balancing yourself relying on the the bms to match the cells up when according to the sales blur they are perfectly matched grade A eve cells

You are certainly not the first person to say this, and I'm starting to believe that sales patter (not just for Fogstar) is a little "liberal" with the truth....?

Cheers
Red.

 

[Ditcha]

Sorry to hijack the thread but what does this mean ?
Is there anything not correct with these readings
Im on EHU at the moment
View attachment 802223View attachment 802224

Looks good to me it's only 1.1ah down on 230ah and 0.014mv cell difference but it is rested at 13.4v so had time to settle.

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[RedFrame]

No idea what so ever but i know if i have a problem their support is good and it will be sorted.

The problem is when you design a van around something that you might need to take out in 10 years... Based on there sales blurb...

Cheers
Red

 

[zac]

The problem is when you design a van around something that you might need to take out in 10 years... Based on there sales blurb...

Cheers
Red

If it lasts 10 years i will be truly amazed and if they are even around that long, the sterlings that i have presently i have had for nearly 5 years and i can only monitor them by using the victron bmv as they dont have a bluetooth BMS built in but i have had no issues with them although i would not know if they were not balanced as not seen that in the app. With this new battery i am seeing things i wouldn't normally so not really understanding but with this thread it will give me the information i need to challenge them once i get past the 6 charge cycles if it's still not right.

 

[Al n Val]

is their anything much wrong with my 2 x 280ah Drift batteries

Batt 1 first 2 pics

Battery 2

 

[Ditcha]

is their anything much wrong with my 2 x 280ah Drift batteries

Batt 1 first 2 pics

View attachment 802230View attachment 802231

Battery 2

View attachment 802232View attachment 802233

I wouldn't be happy with that imbalance after 5 cycles bat1, 0.117mv and bat2, 0.187mv on a new battery.

 

[PaulandChrissy]

I wouldn't be happy with that imbalance after 5 cycles bat1, 0.117mv and bat2, 0.187mv on a new battery.

Agreed. That’s abnormal.

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[zac]

What is acceptable just out of interest as mine are currently showing 0.062v difference which at present Fogstar are saying is normal and will stabilise after 5-6 cycles which i won't get to for a while yet?

 

[PaulandChrissy]

Just leave them on charge for a few days and they should top balance. You don’t need to fully cycle them. 62mv is ok as long as it steadily reduces after a few days changing.

 

[Raul]

Your cells are not perfectly matched in voltage and internal resistance perfectly matched cells with not go out of balance, balancing make not so good cells better than they actually are.

You match cells with same capacity and resistance, not voltage. The imbalance there is due to different SOC on each cell. Once all fully charged, it will stay in balance as long as internal resistance of the cells is equal or close. Even slightly out capacity cells like 102-105-100-101ah will stay in balance, as long as resistance is close. It will only unbalance, when one or more has a higher resistance, and lags behind, therefore with cycling will go out of sync within the pack. To see if it stays in balance, you need to balance the pack first, then, on next charge you will see if it kept the balance. If it did, the cells are matched.

This is pure unbalanced cells put together with a bms that balances very small currents, so it takes a long time to sit at the top voltage, to balance. Active balancer will speed this process up.

 

[Raul]

Just fired up the Bluetooth on Tam's (Northernraider ) new 105ah Fogstar, not been on charge yet. It's sitting at 18% cell balance within 4mv.

Imbalance counts above 3.45v per cell, at 18% soc is meaningless due to flat curve characteristic of lifepo4.

 

[Raul]

Just leave them on charge for a few days and they should top balance. You don’t need to fully cycle them. 62mv is ok as long as it steadily reduces after a few days changing.

But you have to cycle the top 2-3% only, and will take lots of hrs. The bms can only do 150ma if it’s a passive resistor.

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[jezport]

Imbalance counts above 3.45v per cell, at 18% soc is meaningless due to flat curve characteristic of lifepo4.

In layman's terms?

 

[Ditcha]

You match cells with same capacity and resistance, not voltage. The imbalance there is due to different SOC on each cell. Once all fully charged, it will stay in balance as long as internal resistance of the cells is equal or close. Even slightly out capacity cells like 102-105-100-101ah will stay in balance, as long as resistance is close. It will only unbalance, when one or more has a higher resistance, and lags behind, therefore with cycling will go out of sync within the pack. To see if it stays in balance, you need to balance the pack first, then, on next charge you will see if it kept the balance. If it did, the cells are matched.

This is pure unbalanced cells put together with a bms that balances very small currents, so it takes a long time to sit at the top voltage, to balance. Active balancer will speed this process up.

Why do you need to do this surely this should be done beforehand by the premade battery supplier to know in his own mind the cells are matched rather than let the customer find out I can understand having to do this with separate cells when making up your own battery but not a premade.

 

[Raul]

In layman's terms?

I mentioned to you before, you can only balance at near full, at the top. The cell starts to saturate from 3.45v and above, that’s why balancing is done after reaches this level of charge. You can’t balance something with different quantities when they only partially full. You have to bring them up then the bms will bleed off the full ones so the empty ones charge and catch up. When all full they all balanced.

 

[Raul]

Why do you need to do this surely this should be done beforehand by the premade battery supplier to know in his own mind the cells are matched rather than let the customer find out I can understand having to do this with separate cells when making up your own battery but not a premade.

I agree, you shouldn’t need to do this, they should be balanced then shipped to you.
What I tried to tell you, the cells may be perfectly matched, but not balanced. You will only find out if they are matched AFTER a full balance.

 

[RedFrame]

Why do you need to do this surely this should be done beforehand by the premade battery supplier to know in his own mind the cells are matched rather than let the customer find out I can understand having to do this with separate cells when making up your own battery but not a premade.

If you read exactly what Raul says he is agreeing with you

Edit: Eveyone seems to be faster than me today

Cheers
Red

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