Carthago hab panel displays low battery 10v but shunt reading over 13v. Solar readings similar. Where to check next ?

Lenny HB said:
Pleased my little van has a nice simple version that doesn't appear to suffer these thoughts.

Gone & done it now that's put the mockers on it. 😭

CBE electrics really aren't fit for purpose, Electroblock systems may have their faults but a least they work most of the time.
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So what panels are they now fitting ?
 
If your on about the big red switch you need to check the back studs for voltage or just bridge it for a temporary check
 
Lenny HB said:
What do you mean by isolators? These, well my new one is a Victron one and the original carthago one which is similar'ish.
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MarkHoughton said:
Ok, so have just had over half an hour on the phone with Roger Ivy. He has talked me through various checks. We have established that we have 12.83v at each point from battery thru my new victron isolator and at the existing carthago isolator, but WHEN the CBE is turned on ( regardless of any load ) the B2 to GND show 10.4v. So the issue is from the Carthago isolator to the distribution board... all original, nothing i have touched on that as yet other than remove the CBE522 charger.
So thoughts on how to attack the wiring ? These "out" cables seem to be on everyone's agenda, but what next to test to find where the voltage drop is ?
As said, if the CBE panel is OFF then the B2 to GND shows 12.83 but when I turn it on it drops to 10.4v ( or thereabouts ).
Ideas ?
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Thats going in the right way!

What I would do is remove (tape them so no chance of a nasty spark) the B1, all but the original GND connection, all on the Out connection, and the yellow cable with red crimp (D+?) spade then test B2 to GND. if it is still low, then I would go back along the GND cable to wherever that is connected to your busbar, or to the chassis, and then the positive, somewhere along those there must be a dodgy connection/fuse, even of it looks good and passes a continuity check a fuse may not work well if there's any current....

If b2 to GND is correct with the other cables disconnected ie12.83v, then I would put back the other connections one by one checking each time, and disconnecting after the test, ie test each connection on its own, to see if one reintroduced the CBE under-read
 
AdrianChen said:
Thats going in the right way!

What I would do is remove (tape them so no chance of a nasty spark) the B1, all but the original GND connection, all on the Out connection, and the yellow cable with red crimp (D+?) spade then test B2 to GND. if it is still low, then I would go back along the GND cable to wherever that is connected to your busbar, or to the chassis, and then the positive, somewhere along those there must be a dodgy connection/fuse, even of it looks good and passes a continuity check a fuse may not work well if there's any current....

If b2 to GND is correct with the other cables disconnected ie12.83v, then I would put back the other connections one by one checking each time, and disconnecting after the test, ie test each connection on its own, to see if one reintroduced the CBE under-read
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Should I disconnect the B1 in the engine bay ? Or just the negative or leave it connected ?

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I would just disconnect B1 in the DS Box, whip the fuse out for safety by all means. The B1 terminal itself should then read 0V with the engine off, and solar/ehu turned off. Your panel light should turn red to warn you the cab battery is low! If B1 to GND comes up with the leisure battery voltage, then as Autorouter said a while back the relay in the DS may be permanently stuck.
 
AdrianChen said:
I would just disconnect B1 in the DS Box, whip the fuse out for safety by all means. The B1 terminal itself should then read 0V with the engine off, and solar/ehu turned off. Your panel light should turn red to warn you the cab battery is low! If B1 to GND comes up with the leisure battery voltage, then as Autorouter said a while back the relay in the DS may be permanently stuck.
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The fuse in the engine bay ( if so which one ) or which fuse in the DS470 ?

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If the voltage at the leisure battery terminals is 12.83V, and the voltage between the GND and B2 terminals is 12.5V, then you can start the investigation by finding whether the voltage drop is along the positive wire or the negative (earth) wire.

To do this, measure the voltage between the battery negative terminal and the B2 terminal. If it's 12.5V then the fault is somewhere along the positive wire, if it's 12.83V then the positive wire is OK.

Then measure the voltage between the battery positive terminal and the GND terminal. If it's 12.5V then the fault is somewhere along the negative wire, if it's 12.83V then the negative wire is OK.

When you have found which wire is the problem, you can work your way from the battery to the DS box, looking at all the joins. For example, if the negative wire is the problem, measure between the positive battery terminal and each joint of the negative wire, starting at the battery. Somewhere the voltage will change from 12.83V to 12.5V, and that's where the fault is.
 
Lenny HB said:
Only cheap crap in a CompactLine.

View attachment 961668
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Haha - I would love to chuck the CBE DS and panel out, and replace them with something from Victron/Mastervolt et al, but it would cost a fortune, and possibly gain little, cant believe your panel costs any less than mine, probably just different to justify the more expensive vans being more expensive! Only thing I can see is the duo c control which is functionality included in my panel, and was the only bit that didn't work, so the panel was replaced!
 
autorouter said:
A quick test to see if the split charge relay has stuck closed is to measure the voltages on the B1 and B2 terminals. If they are always the same, something is connecting them, possibly the relay stuck closed. If they are different, the relay is not stuck closed.
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If it is stuck closed ( not determined that as yet ) how do I unstick it ? Or is that not a serviceable item and means a new motherboard ?
 
autorouter said:
If the voltage at the leisure battery terminals is 12.83V, and the voltage between the GND and B2 terminals is 12.5V, then you can start the investigation by finding whether the voltage drop is along the positive wire or the negative (earth) wire.

To do this, measure the voltage between the battery negative terminal and the B2 terminal. If it's 12.5V then the fault is somewhere along the positive wire, if it's 12.83V then the positive wire is OK.

Then measure the voltage between the battery positive terminal and the GND terminal. If it's 12.5V then the fault is somewhere along the negative wire, if it's 12.83V then the negative wire is OK.

When you have found which wire is the problem, you can work your way from the battery to the DS box, looking at all the joins. For example, if the negative wire is the problem, measure between the positive battery terminal and each joint of the negative wire, starting at the battery. Somewhere the voltage will change from 12.83V to 12.5V, and that's where the fault is.
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Negative to B2 is 12.5
Positive to GND is 12.8

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MarkHoughton said:
If it is stuck closed ( not determined that as yet ) how do I unstick it ? Or is that not a serviceable item and means a new motherboard ?
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Well then a repair shop could just replace the relay for you, then when its working again you will disable it! See what the tests say first. I couldn't possibly say that in your position I might be tempted to just cut into it and remove the contacts, since it would need replacing if ever it was to be used again, because that sounds very unprofessional, and I would be flamed!

But I think you will find the issue if you continue along Autorouters path.....
 
MarkHoughton said:
If it is stuck closed ( not determined that as yet ) how do I unstick it ? Or is that not a serviceable item and means a new motherboard ?
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It's replaceable by someone who has a basic competence in soldering components to circuit boards. The split charge relay is that big square black thing with the green circle on it, near the B1 and OUT terminals. Someone like Apuljack Electronics could do it easily, and they would probably also test the board to see if anything else needed fixing.

CBE DS470 Fuseboard (209763) | Apuljack Electronics

Fused power distribution and circuit control unitNeed fuses? Click here: Standard ATO Fuses
www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk
But as AdrianChen reminded me, you want to disable the relay anyway. Removing it is the easy bit, the hard part is finding the exact replacement relay and fitting it. And as he says, you could just take a big pair of pliers/cutters to it, and remove all the working bits leaving only the terminals soldered into the board. You wouldn't be the first to do that, I'm sure. Disconnect the B1, B2 and OUT wires before you do that, obviously.
 
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autorouter said:
It's replaceable by someone who has a basic competence in soldering components to circuit boards. The split charge relay is that big square black thing with the green circle on it, near the B1 and OUT terminals. Someone like Apuljack Electronics could do it easily, and they would probably also test the board to see if anything else needed fixing.

CBE DS470 Fuseboard (209763) | Apuljack Electronics

Fused power distribution and circuit control unitNeed fuses? Click here: Standard ATO Fuses
www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk www.apuljackelectronics.co.uk
But as AdrianChen reminded me, you want to disable the relay anyway. Removing it is the easy bit, the hard part is finding the exact replacement relay and fitting it. And as he says, you could just take a big pair of pliers/cutters to it, and remove all the working bits leaving only the terminals soldered into the board. You wouldn't be the first to do that, I'm sure. Disconnect the B1, B2 and OUT wires before you do that, obviously.
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AdrianChen
autorouter
So, have disconnected Engine battery.
Removed the 2 unknown “out” cables and now B2 to Neg is 12.2
GND to Positive is 12.8
B1 to GND is 0
B2 to GND is 12.2

What now ?

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Grace the unknown cables to see what they do.
I know it's easier said than done especially with Carthago wiring but it's the best option.
 
Lenny HB said:
Grace the unknown cables to see what they do.
I know it's easier said than done especially with Carthago wiring but it's the best option.
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Grace ? Do you mean Trace ? If so, how ? they disappear in the conduit that runs underneath/alongside the bathroom. So only a few inches exposed. I am presuming ( perhaps wrongly ) that they may have been to do with the solar install by the original dealer in wales 3A's Leisure. Any other suggestions ?
Plus disconnecting them did not alter the fact that the CAB panel is still reading under 11 all it did was drop "B2 to Neg" from 12.5 to 12.2 so surely worse by disconnecting them ?
 
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You can trace by using a multimeter on ohms range just need to extend one of the leads not perfect but better than nothing.
 
MarkHoughton said:
So, have disconnected Engine battery.
Removed the 2 unknown “out” cables and now B2 to Neg is 12.2
GND to Positive is 12.8
B1 to GND is 0
B2 to GND is 12.2

What now ?
Click to expand...
The voltage drop is along the Pos to B2 wire, not the Neg to GND wire. Keep the probe on the Neg battery terminal, and with the other probe start with the Pos terminal which should be 12.8V. Work along the positive wire, until the voltage drops, checking at every available metallic point.

Presumably there is a fuse on the positive wire, so check at the fuse input and output for example. At some point the voltage will drop.
 
AdrianChen Lenny HB autorouter
I have been in a finance meeting this past hour and so only just come back out to carry on the checks.
Am rather confused because the panel is now reading 13v ?!?
The “out” cables are still disconnected but i have reconnected the engine battery.
Could that have reset everything perhaps ?
Solar and EHU have been disabled all day.

Just firing up the ALDE and will then monitor for the rest of the afternoon and report later.

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