Cambelt & Water Pump change quote from local Fiat garage today.

[mikebeaches]

Thats seems low just the parts if they used genuine Fiat are £480.

Parts:

Fiat - 71736716 - Camshaft drive set - £191.36
Fiat - 5802102136 - Trans belt - £19.24
Fiat - 500388408 - Trans belt - £23.13

Total (excl VAT) - £233.73

At least, that's what it says on the invoice...

 

[Lenny HB]

Parts:

Fiat - 71736716 - Camshaft drive set - £191.36
Fiat - 5802102136 - Trans belt - £19.24
Fiat - 500388408 - Trans belt - £23.13

Total (excl VAT) - £233.73

At least, that's what it says on the invoice...

they didn't do the water pump then.

 

[TinaLes]

I would like to mention at this point, even if using a main dealer service facility, the difference between them is sometimes incredible.
Example: Brand new Mini Cooper S (2007) after a few thousand miles in year 1, Engine sounded like a tractor when starting from cold, took it to BMW main dealer, they said it needed a new timing chain, which they replaced, handed back all OK.
A few thousand miles later, same thing happened, read on forums that there was a common problem with the cam chain tensioners, took it back, had to leave it with them overnight so they could do "a cold start" next day, rang me at lunchtime saying the car was ready for collection.
I drove it home, next morning you guessed it, it sounded like a rattling tractor again, I took it back to the main dealer, the workshop manager came out, listened to it running, rattling away, and said "its Ok, they all sound like that"
I then drove it to another main dealer, they had a listen and said, "its the timing chain sir", "its probably the tensioner, we have a few in recently with the same problem" They changed the chain & tensioner under warranty, told me that the the tensioner had been modified to stop this problem.
Well 2 more changes later, making 4 in all, we sold the car with 37K on the clock, and never paid for any of them, as it was on the vehicles history, and was a known fault.
Point is, some dealers are better that others at customer service, and dare I say more honest.
We have never used the original dealership workshops since, we now only go to the one that has never yet let us down.

I would also add that BMW seem to be cheaper than Fiat professional, on fixed rate service costs, which is surprised to me.
LES

 

[mikebeaches]

In November, I had the timing belt, tensioners and auxilary belt changed on my 2016 Fiat X290 2.3L 130hp at my local Fiat Professional dealer. They said because of the very low mileage (15,872) changing the water pump was unnecessary.

Labour: £280
Parts: £233
Sub-total: £513
VAT: £103

GRAND TOTAL: £616

In November, I had the timing belt, tensioners and auxilary belt changed on my 2016 Fiat X290 2.3L 130hp at my local Fiat Professional dealer. They said because of the very low mileage (15,872) changing the water pump was unnecessary.

Labour: £280
Parts: £233
Sub-total: £513
VAT: £103

GRAND TOTAL: £616

Thats seems low just the parts if they used genuine Fiat are £480.

Doh, keep up Lenny - I said that in my original post!!

 

[MichaelT]

they didn't do the water pump then.

Our Fiat main dealer said no need to change, waste of money!!

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[TinaLes]

Following on from my last post I missed a bit, with respect to eurajohn comments.
Firstly, I am no trained mechanic only a DIY when possible, but even I know from mates that are/were in the trade, that working for main dealers as "approved technicians" they are expected to carry out all servicing, or repairs to vehicles well under the time as laid down for the job on the manufacturers service item sheet.
If they took the full allocation of hours to do the job, they wouldn't make much profit for the dealer workshop, and would be under the cosh to get their finger out.
This can be proved also, by the fact that my local Ford main dealer, could turn around 68 plus vehicles a day, with only a dozen at most "Technicians" they started work at 8AM, had an hour for lunch, and were out the door by 5.30/6pm.
We may be charged the full amount for allocated hours on the job sheet, where in fact they have done it in half the time, yet we are all charged the full amount.

I am sure many others will recognise, and will have experienced the same, the allocated hours for a job, must cover the "Buggery" factor they may incur some of the time, including waiting at the stores counter for parts, plus getting change for the vending machines.
LES

 

[chaser]

Isn't it great, having your own workshop and sons and in-laws all in mechanicing and tyres and brakes and stuff, these prices are just out of this world to us, unbelievable mostly.
Don't think a cambelt change has ever been above £200 and we have done loads, all makes.

 

[Silver-Fox]

To reply to the above two posts L'Hobo and Silver-Fox
Firstly, I like you are time served and now too old to do anything quickly, as to your specific questions, sorry but I do not have the answer to them.
Definitely not the owner of a franchise or anything like, long retired, however I did own and run a small independent workshop in the 70- 80's.
I wasn't trying to support the excessive cost of using a main agent simply explaining how they come to such a high price.
In a previous post on this subject someone had reported they had the job done by a backstreet merchant for about a third of the price quoted here, in it they related how the operative had gone about the task from below the vehicle, when challenged on that fact, they were adamant that no time was spent at the top of the engine, if you know the task you will know that is not possible.

As a p.s. one of my daughters runs a Volvo XC60 the Volvo dealership quoted £1475 to change the belt and water pump, on her next visit over to me I did the job (admittedly far slower then the dealer would have done) using quality pattern parts and fluids for €238, I did suffer for a few days after though from the rolling around trying to get back up, definitely too old now for that game.

As an indi im guessing you did quite well when the main stealers quoted locally

It’s difficult to justify main dealers prices in my opinion.

It’s all fur coat and no knickers I think.

I would use an independent any day of the week over a stealer, mainly because most of their “techs” are filter spinners

 

[TinaLes]

Silver-Fox "Filter Spinners"...love it! not heard that before, got anymore?
LES

 

[Lagotto]

Changed the cambelt on my 2016 2.3 130 when I hit the 5 year mark, only a little over 6K miles on clock but age more important than mileage. Used a Dayco kit including water pump, plus the two aux belts, plus recommended coolant. Don't know why anyone would suggest not replacing the water pump, its going to be another 5 years before returning to the belt again and risking a failure during this time is not worth it, its really not an expensive item. Im an engineer (an old one), and have done cambelts before, though not a Ducato. Some valuable advice from Eurajohn helped me, and the job probably took me double the time, but not a big deal. Cost to me was just parts, plus a couple of bruised knuckles and a stiff back (part of getting old). If my circumstances don't change, no doubt in 5 years I will do it again. As a bonus, I have the knowledge that there were no shortcuts and the job was done well.

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[2GB Racing]

Just to remind people that some Peugeot Boxers 2015 + are Ford Puma engined and chain driven camshafts so don’t get your leg lifted re fitting a cam belt etc

 

[Sapper520]

Although our van is only 18 months old, I did check with my nearest Fiat Professional Garage in relation to a Cambelt change.

On the Fiat parts list for doing the job (from his computer), I was informed that newer Fiat engines don’t require a water pump change.

 

[Lagotto]

Although our van is only 18 months old, I did check with my nearest Fiat Professional Garage in relation to a Cambelt change.

On the Fiat parts list for doing the job (from his computer), I was informed that newer Fiat engines don’t require a water pump change.

The consensus is that if the water pump is driven by the cam belt, and the work involved to replace the water pump is the same as replacing the cam belt, then do it. It may not be listed as a requirement of the cam belt job, but more a "safeguard". There have been cases of water pump failures not a long time after changing a cam belt, then you are back to another hefty bill for repeating the work again. Its peace of mind, up to each individual to make the decision.

 

[MichaelT]

The consensus is that if the water pump is driven by the cam belt, and the work involved to replace the water pump is the same as replacing the cam belt, then do it. It may not be listed as a requirement of the cam belt job, but more a "safeguard". There have been cases of water pump failures not a long time after changing a cam belt, then you are back to another hefty bill for repeating the work again. Its peace of mind, up to each individual to make the decision.

See post #42

 

[Silver-Fox]

Silver-Fox "Filter Spinners"...love it! not heard that before, got anymore?
LES

TinaL loads more but a bit risky to print

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[Jake Royd]

For the water pump I would suggest looking at the failure modes, there are not many:-
Leak from mounting face.
Seal failure/leak.
Bearing failure.
Fixing or pulley failure.

In summary of it's not leaking or making unatural noises it's ok.

 

[peterc10]

2011 2.3 l Fiat X 250. Wait for it............ £1,450.00

That's a lot of beer Phil ...................

 

[Lenny HB]

That's a lot of beer Phil ...................

At the price Phil likes to pay (€1) about 1740 beers depending on exchange rate.

 

[pelican]

My 2016 Ducato based A Class was just under £800 for service,cam belt and MOT.

Who did the work please.

 

[Lagotto]

For the water pump I would suggest looking at the failure modes, there are not many:-
Leak from mounting face.
Seal failure/leak.
Bearing failure.
Fixing or pulley failure.

In summary of it's not leaking or making unatural noises it's ok.

That's missing the point really, of course if the water pump is faulty you would replace it. Many parts of an engine are replaced routinely, not because they are obviously faulty, but due to time and the likelihood of a failure . That is in effect why the cam belt is replaced. The suggestion that its a good idea to replace the water pump is made purely because, while this work is being done, for a small extra cost you may well avoid a very costly repair some time later. If a person decides not to then that's fine, its merely insurance.

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[eurajohn]

Following on from my last post I missed a bit, with respect to eurajohn comments.
Firstly, I am no trained mechanic only a DIY when possible, but even I know from mates that are/were in the trade, that working for main dealers as "approved technicians" they are expected to carry out all servicing, or repairs to vehicles well under the time as laid down for the job on the manufacturers service item sheet.
If they took the full allocation of hours to do the job, they wouldn't make much profit for the dealer workshop, and would be under the cosh to get their finger out.
This can be proved also, by the fact that my local Ford main dealer, could turn around 68 plus vehicles a day, with only a dozen at most "Technicians" they started work at 8AM, had an hour for lunch, and were out the door by 5.30/6pm.
We may be charged the full amount for allocated hours on the job sheet, where in fact they have done it in half the time, yet we are all charged the full amount.

I am sure many others will recognise, and will have experienced the same, the allocated hours for a job, must cover the "Buggery" factor they may incur some of the time, including waiting at the stores counter for parts, plus getting change for the vending machines.
LES

There has always been a "factory" set time for all work on vehicles (from at least the early 60's which was my start of knowledge on the subject), in those days it was known as bonus time, which was the difference between the factory hours and how quickly you could get the job done, the bonus time was split between the company and the mechanic, but the mechanic was always responsible for any comeback.
I personally feel that the system then started the downward spiral from what I call a proper mechanic to fitters, we were taught and trained to diagnose and repair most faults and problems, so if a car came in with gearbox problem, remove it strip it out and repair it not remove and replace with another one.
I'm very aware times and values have changed but as you point out not much has changed with the charges made to the customer.
Don't forget modern vehicles are far more reliable and sophisticated than then and require less frequent visits for routine maintenance.

 

[eurajohn]

For the water pump I would suggest looking at the failure modes, there are not many:-
Leak from mounting face.
Seal failure/leak.
Bearing failure.
Fixing or pulley failure.

In summary of it's not leaking or making unatural noises it's ok.

Maybe but the only warning the driver will get of bearing failure is a screeching noise just before the engine self destructs!
Leaks you will get a longer period of notice, before the inevitable.

 

[Lenny HB]

Mines due this year it's only done 30k but I'll get the pump changed, had a water pump fail on a car & it stripped the cam belt.

 

[pelican]

Following on from my last post I missed a bit, with respect to eurajohn comments.
Firstly, I am no trained mechanic only a DIY when possible, but even I know from mates that are/were in the trade, that working for main dealers as "approved technicians" they are expected to carry out all servicing, or repairs to vehicles well under the time as laid down for the job on the manufacturers service item sheet.
If they took the full allocation of hours to do the job, they wouldn't make much profit for the dealer workshop, and would be under the cosh to get their finger out.
This can be proved also, by the fact that my local Ford main dealer, could turn around 68 plus vehicles a day, with only a dozen at most "Technicians" they started work at 8AM, had an hour for lunch, and were out the door by 5.30/6pm.
We may be charged the full amount for allocated hours on the job sheet, where in fact they have done it in half the time, yet we are all charged the full amount.

I am sure many others will recognise, and will have experienced the same, the allocated hours for a job, must cover the "Buggery" factor they may incur some of the time, including waiting at the stores counter for parts, plus getting change for the vending machines.
LES

Back in the 1980s I worked as a mechanic for a large Ford main dealer.
Yes we worked to the manufacturers time schedules and were paid the full time listed as way of bonus irrespective to how long it took to complete the job

 

[Sapper520]

The consensus is that if the water pump is driven by the cam belt, and the work involved to replace the water pump is the same as replacing the cam belt, then do it. It may not be listed as a requirement of the cam belt job, but more a "safeguard". There have been cases of water pump failures not a long time after changing a cam belt, then you are back to another hefty bill for repeating the work again. Its peace of mind, up to each individual to make the decision.

I’ve got basic mechanical knowledge, so I’m not an expert in any way, shape or form.

What I do know is modern engineering has moved on from the days of my first vehicles, which was ‘change everything’.

If Mr Fiat says the parts are designed now for X thousands of miles why change them? I’m a belt and braces type of person, and I know parts can fail at anytime in their life, but where do you draw the line?

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[PhilandMena]

I have now received a quote from the garage that undertook our first cambelt and water pump 5 years ago and its now down to £749.0. They charged me £600.0 five years ago and they did a good job, so this looks like a reasonable price increase to me.
Todays quote is for 8 hours of labour costing £400. and the remaining is parts and VAT. Looks like I'm going to be continuing to seek out those 1 euro bars and maintain a healthy FLT status.

 

[L' Hobo]

I’ve got basic mechanical knowledge, so I’m not an expert in any way, shape or form.

What I do know is modern engineering has moved on from the days of my first vehicles, which was ‘change everything’.

If Mr Fiat says the parts are designed now for X thousands of miles why change them? I’m a belt and braces type of person, and I know parts can fail at anytime in their life, but where do you draw the line?

As I've highlighted above, Mr Fiat states that "the water-pump is good for the life of the engine",!

I know a Fiat Professional fitter who, surprisingly in this day and age, allows me to assist. He trusts me and I trust his greater Fiat experience and he says, "leave it" unless something is obviously wrong.

We discussed this, because like some of you, I was used to changing water-pumps on a regular basis BUT that was before engines were made by machine computers that governed the torque on every nut and bolt and applied the exact amount of sealant to every surface,
putting the part together in exactly the correct sequence while applying, exactly the right pressure.

When we poor humans redo it, we are nothing near as precise and, sometimes, cause more problems than we solve?

I know what's involved in changing my Fiat X250 water-pump on a perfectly good working engine and, I for one will not be doing it until necessary, but that decision is up to the individual. You pays yer money and makes yer choice! Good Luck!

 

[PhilandMena]

I've got one more quote enquiry out to a garage recommended by a nearby Motorhome dealer and I may get it down further yet. I also asked my garage who done work before if they would offer me a discount as I knew Lenny HB ? I cant put the reply on here I'm afraid to say.

 

[DerryW]

Work done April 2021. Cam belt, water pump, service, all oils, lubes and antifreeze, all OEM parts £885 + vat. Work done by a Fiat/Alpha indi. Highly recommended by other MH's. The water pump was itemised at £242 on the invoice.

 

[L' Hobo]

Work done April 2021. Cam belt, water pump, service, all oils, lubes and antifreeze, all OEM parts £885 + vat. Work done by a Fiat/Alpha indi. Highly recommended by other MH's. The water pump was itemised at £242 on the invoice.

and I cannot see a single thing wrong with it, can you? no tracks, no marks, nothing!

PS. Do you mind saying where it was done?

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