Cam belt - a vehicle's Achilles heel?

[Jo May]

Took our camper in today for a cam belt. It's 5 years old and the van has done 'only' 16,000 miles.
It'll cost £600 - 700.
What a horrible, poxy, inadequate, weak link this thing is in a complex vehicle, one that, touch wood has run fine to date.
Of course, £600 would be 'cheap' if it did happen to snap. But it's scant consolation for a piece of kit that is basically not up to the job. I know they have chains now - are these changed periodically?
But whatever, the majority are rubber and integral to the just about every vehicle. You'd think that by now they'd have come up with a better system than something that needs to be changed after so little mileage?

I ponder this conundrum, and resultant hit to the wallet, on my 3-mile walk home having dropped the van off. It's a walk I normally thoroughly enjoy along the canal towpath. But my mood is rather dark, summed up when my tracky bottoms are muddied by two passing dogs that jump up - 'he's only playing', said one owner, 'sorry, he's just learning,' said the other. Learning?!
To put the tin lid on it, as it were, I got soiled by a passing duck as it crapped on my anorak!

Ruddy cam belts.

 

[ivorantony]

At least back then it wouldn't have caused any damage to the side valve engine.

It was a OHV engine not a side valve, the chain hydraulic tensioner had a rubber pad that wore down
Causing the chain to slap against the chain cover,
Chains are not impervious to breaking but immensely more reliable than cam belts,

I was given a very clean Renault 16 because the chain had snapped, and on the Renault the engine was arse about face, Timing chain end right next to the Firewall ( Bulkhead) so would normally mean engine and gearbox out to replace it, ( that makes it uneconomical to replace)
Bolster chisel inside cut a hole in the bulkhead, replace the chain and tensioner and a quick weld to repair the bulkhead gave me a car that I kept for several years, and made a tidy profit when I sold her

 

[Spriddler]

It was a OHV engine not a side valve, the chain hydraulic tensioner had a rubber pad that wore down

I know. I had one. It was a gest, hinting at how old the OP must be, hence the

 

[jockaneezer]

Some Stihl backpack blowers and strimmers labled "4 mix" run on 2 stroke mix, but are valved 4 strokes and they have plastic cams and plastic drive gears.

 

[h8ten]

Had a vauxhall cavalier 1.8 Sri. Cambelt went at 70,000 miles. Quite a bit of damage but labour was cheap then. I think it was about 30 something years ago. Long before the Internet. I'd never heard of changing a cambelt until mine broke.

My 1984, Cavalier 1.8 SRi suffered the same fate. The supplying dealership had regularly serviced it and it was never mentioned that it should be replaced at 'such and such' mileage. Fortunately, I was slowing for a bend when it went so the engine was not under load. One bent valve and an indentation in a piston.

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[Brummie64]

I don’t get the chains are noisier argument, I have a 20 year old Nissan Elgrand 3.5 v6 , chain driven engine, Japanese import with over 220,000 kms on the clock and it still sounds amazing smooth. I have owned it for 10 years now and never had to do anything with the chain.
Just wish my Ducato based Burstner was chain driven.

 

[Dazzola]

BMW didn't cover themselves in glory with the cam chains on the N series engines

The n47 is a disaster waiting to happen, but the straight 6 petrol or diesel engines are magnificent!
They can leak a bit of oil, but will do mega miles. I reckon the 335d is probably one of the best engines on the planet.

 

[SavvyOwner]

Chains don’t stretch, the pins could possibly wear.
Wet belts, why would you.

Chains usually become noisy and rattle indicating wear, nearing end of service life and giving warning that they need to be rplaced. Cam belts snap without any warning. Have never had a chain snap on various engines but have had cam belts break even though supposedly within their expected lifetime as indicated in the handbook.

 

[MGDavid]

Chains don’t stretch, the pins could possibly wear.
Wet belts, why would you.

chains do stretch - ask any race car engine builder

 

[Guigsy]

chains do stretch - ask any race car engine builder

They get longer through wear on the bushings. They don't actually plastically yield.

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[Garry - June]

Chains do get longer when they wear. Although they don't physically stretch, the pins and plate holes get worn and the very slight increase in play adds up over the length.

No problem with this as usually all it results in is a noisier engine, gently letting you know its getting a bit tired.... rather a bit of noise than a sudden belt failure.

 

[Bognor Saint]

The n47 is a disaster waiting to happen, but the straight 6 petrol or diesel engines are magnificent!
They can leak a bit of oil, but will do mega miles. I reckon the 335d is probably one of the best engines on the planet.

I have one and can't disagree with you.

 

[PaulW2]

I have one and can't disagree with you.

I've got the 330d version (I think the difference is that it has one rather than two turbos) and it is a really lovely engine.

 

[Widge]

In the “good old days” when I always bought older cars as I couldn’t afford anything else, cars with tens of hundreds of miles on the clock and probably never had a belt change and I certainly didn’t renew one in the 30-50k in the mileage I’d put on and fortunately never had one go… so are we being scared into renewing the belts on vehicles..? One particular petrol car I had I put over 50k on it and never changed the belt, were they supposed to be done every 5k on cars too

On my 3ltr ducato it’s a chain and now on 134k I don’t think it’s ever been done but drives like new….

Years ago I hired a transit van, the cambelt went, the van hire place said that they had only had it done 6 weeks before, Whether it was a faulty belt or bad fitting, who knows.

 

[swemmy666]

I think you will find it's only lucky if it poops on your head.

is that lucky for you or the bird?

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[Guigsy]

No problem with this as usually all it results in is a noisier engine, gently letting you know its getting a bit tired.... rather a bit of noise than a sudden belt failure.

Belts generally show cracking and then chunking well before they fail. And dry belts generally aren't that hard to inspect.

 

[jockaneezer]

I was reversing into a parking space at work in my 1.3 Mk1 Astra when the engine just died. Had a couple of goes at starting it, but nothing. Got out and pushed it into the bay and as it moved back, there were 4 teeth off the timing belt lying on the floor. It had stripped them off at the crankshaft pulley. Luckily, a new belt sorted it.

 

[Marky146]

My vehicles are all different. 1.2 Fiesta is a dry belt and only £2-50-£300 to change.

My ST is back from 48,000m service with a £1,500 bill. Belts, rear discs and full service but it’s about to be handed to my son for Xmas so I want it right. My Custom day camper (4 nights a week home) is due the dreaded wet belt at the next service- glad I just did a pension dump!

As to my Wife’s car… it’s a Nissan Leaf. She’s due a 12v battery next year. And more wiper blades. That’s it.

My new ( to me) electric car….. What is this service people talk about? If it needs anything it’ll tell me what and when. Maybe brake fluid change in a year or two, a cabin filter and some washer fluid. Tyres were originals and it’s got 18,300m on it. They’ve been rotated already as all look about the same.
I think when I’m done demonstrating 0-60mph in 3.1 seconds to enough people it’ll need some tyres though! That is also due to my pensin dump! Yes- I’ve done to the dark side. An iPad on wheels. Evil Elon’s love child. Call it what you will but it’s amazing. Comfortable, spacious and fast as f*ck!

 

[Jo May]

Back home, resting in a darkened room.

6 slices of ox tongue, 2 slices of roast pork (with a little stuffing) and a cam belt, £680.00.
(8 slices of meat £11!)

 

[VXman]

Took our camper in today for a cam belt. It's 5 years old and the van has done 'only' 16,000 miles.
It'll cost £600 - 700.

Do more miles - better value for money

Oh here we go, the usual copy & paste wet belt story telling. Less than 5% of Transit & Transit Cutom sales since 2016 have suffered. It's roughly 14000 vans out of over 350,000 sold. Yes, the engine is so bad VAG are using it from 2025.

Depends who you buy the moho from with the Fiats, many of the dealers who only sell used change the belt prior to sale if they're over or nearing the 5 years.

5%!!!! That is big and even more so considering the numbers involved. Put it another way - 5 in a hundred will fail. 1 in 20!!!!

Chains - 100 to 200,000 miles lifetime.
Belts - 40 to 60,000 depending on manufacturer.

Or so I was advised.

Belts are time limited not just miles. They deteriorate even if not used - possible even more so.

This bit is probably going to be controversial but why is the OP moaning about having to have the cam belt changed surely he knew that would have to be done when he bought the van.

I took the post as a general moan about the technology. He has a fair point. Really you don't have a lot of choice nowadays.

What manufacturers need to do is develop a system like F1 engines. Gear driven.

more info...

http://www.quora.com/Do-Formula-1-engines-use-timing-belts/answer/Niky-Tamayo

http://www.quora.com/Do-Formula-1-engines-use-timing-belts/answer/Niky-Tamayo

automobilehub.quora.com

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[Sleeveless]

Duplex chains are the best, and chains can sometimes be replaced simply by joining to the old chain and winding on by hand (tensioner removed) making them easier to change than belts , done hundreds, mostly single chains though....

 

[Sleeveless]

Ford used to do an engine with neither a cam belt or chain, I think it was the Essex V6 iirc.
The cams were driven by a gear cog.

Also the "Cologne" V6 2.8 ltr , but the actual teeth on the cam gear were a plastic material to reduce noise, which used to fail without warning !

 

[Apacheman]

Had two major breakdowns in my time. Both within a mile of M1 J26 Southbound about 70 miles from home. What’s the chance of that? First was a piston rod completely mashed the engine on a horsebox. 2nd a couple of years later the Cam belt on a Fiesta diesel doing 70mph. Cracked the cylinder head, bent a few valves and mashed the belt case. That had been replaced at 30,000 miles in accordance with Ford servicing went at 32,000 ish. It was a known problem. I complained to Ford and was lucky they reimbursed me the cost of the parts. Not too bad now but got the heeby Jeebies for years when driving past that junction.

 

[dunnah01]

Duplex chains are the best, and chains can sometimes be replaced simply by joining to the old chain and winding on by hand (tensioner removed) making them easier to change than belts , done hundreds, mostly single chains though....

Morse chains are stronger and kinder to the sliders so tend to last longer.

 

[Martin How]

.My mini (1972) had a very worn can chain and sprockets and that ran in a wet chain case. All my honda motor cycles have had chains. The bigger ones Morse/ Hyvo internal toothed multi plate chains which are very noisy. They also need adjusters fraught with the need to adjust either manually or automatically. At least the manual ones you had some reassurance that it was correctly tensioned. Some VFR 750s even had gear driven cams to avoid chain failure.

You pays your money and takes your chance. Nothings perfect.

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[chrometeeth]

On our Peugeot 207, the water pump bearings were rattling, so booked in fir new pump and cambelt, within a few days. Day before due, pump failed, belt jumped off, 16 valves bent..... £1600 or scrap car. Ouch.

 

[Diabalo]

Interesting piece on wet belts.

 

[gus-lopez]

The cams were driven by a gear cog.

But if you were going fast enough when the fibre gear stripped you got away without any damage

that this engine also needs its belt changing after 10yrs or ex amount of miles.

any of them do.
My smiley transits I changed the belt yearly.45minutes including draining water & removing front & rad

Our neighbour just paid about £1600 for a wet belt change on his ford engined peugeot 3008
Belt, sump and gasket, oil pick up pipe and oil and filter change. All in the name of progress.

Exactly & as I have posted before ,hwow can this "reduce emissions" when you are creating more parts & work?

My view is that timing belts should only be permitted for non-interference engines

This^^^^^^

Wet belts banned full stop.

This^^^^^^

Otherwise timing chains should be mandatory.

& this^^^^^^^^

The last Briggs & Stratton I was inside had a nylon camshaft.......

which reminds me .what ****ing idiot thinks push on cam lobes are ok in the real world? Another load of rubbish Ford use. No idea if others do?

What manufacturers need to do is develop a system like F1 engines. Gear driven.

That is how we started .we have gone this way in the interests of " efficiency, more profit, less emissions,etc;etc;etc " & all paid for at the expense of the customers.

 

[Tony50]

If you think that’s bad, feel sorry for the poor buggers that have belts running in oil,
Transit owners are looking at a bill of £1400 or a completely destroyed engine,
They don’t call the eco boost engine ecoboom for nothing

£1600 John Grose Main Ford Dealer in Ipswich , Suffolk estimated, I say what idiot designed this. !!

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

£1600 John Grose Main Ford Dealer in Ipswich , Suffolk estimated, I say what idiot designed this. !!

so at the manufactures replace schedule that's £300+ per annum.
Mike.

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[SpeedyDux]

so at the manufactures replace schedule that's £300+ per annum.
Mike.

For the lucky owners! Those are the winners in the wet belt lottery.

Place your bets .... buy your chance of a premature wet belt failure ...