Cam belt - a vehicle's Achilles heel?

[Jo May]

Took our camper in today for a cam belt. It's 5 years old and the van has done 'only' 16,000 miles.
It'll cost £600 - 700.
What a horrible, poxy, inadequate, weak link this thing is in a complex vehicle, one that, touch wood has run fine to date.
Of course, £600 would be 'cheap' if it did happen to snap. But it's scant consolation for a piece of kit that is basically not up to the job. I know they have chains now - are these changed periodically?
But whatever, the majority are rubber and integral to the just about every vehicle. You'd think that by now they'd have come up with a better system than something that needs to be changed after so little mileage?

I ponder this conundrum, and resultant hit to the wallet, on my 3-mile walk home having dropped the van off. It's a walk I normally thoroughly enjoy along the canal towpath. But my mood is rather dark, summed up when my tracky bottoms are muddied by two passing dogs that jump up - 'he's only playing', said one owner, 'sorry, he's just learning,' said the other. Learning?!
To put the tin lid on it, as it were, I got soiled by a passing duck as it crapped on my anorak!

Ruddy cam belts.

 

[JockandRita]

Ford used to do an engine with neither a cam belt or chain, I think it was the Essex V6 iirc.
The cams were driven by a gear cog.

Not a Ford engine, but we owned a Ford Granada 2.5TD Executive which had the gear driven VM engine, also used at one time in the Chrysler Voyager, Jeep Cherokee, Range Rover, and BMW. It had 4 x separate cylinder heads, and if the No4 head gasket blew, you had to remove Nos 1, 2, and 3 to get at No4.

Can I ask how it took the cambelt with it.
Normally they snap and fall on the road.

We had a drive belt snap and make it's way inside the cambelt cover on our 2.8TDi Fiat Ducato based Hymer, thereby dislodging the belt causing extensive damage to the engine.

Jock.

 

[Thornebt]

Someone mentioned that cam belts are lighter. I'm sure that's right but I don't notice the extra weight of the camchain when driving my 4T Autosleeper. I wouldn't buy a van with a belt.

 

[jockaneezer]

Not a Ford engine, but we owned a Ford Granada 2.5TD Executive which had the gear driven VM engine, also used at one time in the Chrysler Voyager, Jeep Cherokee, Range Rover, and BMW. It had 4 x separate cylinder heads, and if the No4 head gasket blew, you had to remove Nos 1, 2, and 3 to get at No4.


We had a drive belt snap and make it's way inside the cambelt cover on our 2.8TDi Fiat Ducato based Hymer, thereby dislodging the belt causing extensive damage to the engine.

Jock.

My FiL bought a diesel Rover and brought it round to show me. We lifted the bonnet and I thought it had 4 Lister diesels nailed together to power it ! I'd never seen separate cylinder heads on a car engine before.

 

[Landy Andy]

The problem with cambelts in motorhomes is that people don’t get their moneys worth of the belt. So whinge about it, and its cost. If they drove it more and did 45-50-55 Thou miles in the five years then the cost wouldn’t be so bad. End of the day they are designed as working vans.

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[Bertilak]

Another alternative cam drive is the Morse "HyVo" chain, which is almost solid links and works rather like a flexible gear. Known for its efficiency, reliability and silence , they were favoured on solid American V8s (including the Rover 3.5) and also on fast revving Japanese superbike engines.
I've never understood why they aren't more popular, unless it is simply cost.

 

[Silver-Fox]

It shredded and pieces caught the cambelt. Well that’s what it looked like. Whatever it was it was a mess.

Blimey, must of ripped the cambelt cover apart then

 

[Silver-Fox]

I've never understood why they aren't more popular, unless it is simply cost.

Being the cynical type.
I’d say installation cost and changing a belt is a nice earner for the main dealers.

 

[Silver-Fox]

We had a drive belt snap and make it's way inside the cambelt cover on our 2.8TDi Fiat Ducato based Hymer, thereby dislodging the belt causing extensive damage to the engine.

Ridiculous that could happen, poor design or weak covers.

 

[dunnah01]

A lot of engines used the Morse type chains to reduce noise and improve reliabilty

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[mitzimad]

no chain no belt simple

 

[ivorantony]

Simple if you don’t mine increasing the cost by £1000 for an engine, and being straight cut gears and not helical it will be very noisy, fine for a sports car but not acceptable for others,

 

[dunnah01]

View attachment 988081no chain no belt simple

Nah - chains are much simpler. Had to change these in an Alfa a while back

 

[DandJ]

Simple if you don’t mine increasing the cost by £1000 for an engine, and being straight cut gears and not helical it will be very noisy, fine for a sports car but not acceptable for others,

I suppose if you had limitless options at purchase of a new van...£1k for gear driven cams would be a good long term investment...keep the van more than 5 or 6 yrs and it becomes pretty much cost neutral....keep it 10-12 yrs and longer and you're quids in....

 

[tonyidle]

Yes sorry I didn't mean Ford swapped to metal but owners fitted stainless or ally cogs which proved to be far more reliable.
Back in the day, a long time ago, I used to rally and I knew a couple of people who rallied V6 Ford's and I can't remember any of them having the cams drive cog fail (plenty of other problems though lol). Just seemed to me at the time to be a better answer than belts or chains.
Although I've never had a cam belt or cam chain fail touch wood.

I ran Reliant Scimitars for 15 years or so. It happened to my first one second time out and cost me a full set of valves. I changed it to nylon and it gave no more trouble.

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[quentinsf]

The comparison with tyres is a good one. The main difference, I think, is that you can see when your tyres are wearing out and you get visual confirmation of the money you've spent when you get new ones.

For most of us, cambelt changes are hidden away in some dark recess; you pay lots of money and you see no benefit, don't know whether you needed it, don't even know whether they actually changed it, etc. Wouldn't it be good if there were some sort of inspection plate, or place you could attach a high-speed camera, or something, so you could assess the level of wear or cracking on the belt? Some kind of 50-quid test that would tell you whether you should spend 600. Given the number of people this affects around the world, I'm surprised there isn't (as far as I know?).

On a related topic, having been an EV driver for nearly a decade, my favourite current statistic is that, for me, the 'fuel' costs about the same as the tyre rubber. . I replace the tyres after about 30k miles for about £600, so they cost 2p a mile, which is roughly the same as my electricity.

For my van, I guess I'll need to work out the cambelt cost per mile...

 

[dunnah01]

The comparison with tyres is a good one. The main difference, I think, is that you can see when your tyres are wearing out and you get visual confirmation of the money you've spent when you get new ones.

For most of us, cambelt changes are hidden away in some dark recess; you pay lots of money and you see no benefit, don't know whether you needed it, don't even know whether they actually changed it, etc. Wouldn't it be good if there were some sort of inspection plate, or place you could attach a high-speed camera, or something, so you could assess the level of wear or cracking on the belt? Some kind of 50-quid test that would tell you whether you should spend 600. Given the number of people this affects around the world, I'm surprised there isn't (as far as I know?).

On a related topic, having been an EV driver for nearly a decade, my favourite current statistic is that, for me, the 'fuel' costs about the same as the tyre rubber. . I replace the tyres after about 30k miles for about £600, so they cost 2p a mile, which is roughly the same as my electricity.

For my van, I guess I'll need to work out the cambelt cost per mile...

But I'm paying for your fuel but you're not paying for my tyres

 

[EuroTrotters]

A friend in Germany who is a Truck Technician has just taken his 12 year old Mercedes Car to have the chain changed after 250,000 km. Much better and reliable than any belt.

Another friend in Spain has a 3 year old Ford Pickup truck. He has had oil changes carried out as per the schedule. But his belt snapped and Ford Spain will not accept any liability. He is facing a bill of over €,9000-12,000.

My Brother bought a second hand Ford Transit from my mates used Van Garage. It was out of my Mates warranty when the belt snapped at around 110,000 miles. My mate told him to go to Ford and see what they would do. This was around 3-4 years ago. Ford carried out the repairs free of charge, despite being out of warranty.

I dont like belt driven engines. I have two, one on the motorhome, Iveco 2.8TDi and we get it changed every 5 years at a cost of circa £250. My Spanish Audi costs €550 every 5 years.

We have a V6 Toyota Vellfire, 2 Toyota Previas, A Mercedes Sprinter and a V8 Range Rover, all with chains and never have to worry until the mileages get high.

The only issue I have had with a chain was when the garage were doing work and it jumped a cog. They managed to re-set it before any damage was caused. This was an Opel Manta I had as a Teenager !

 

[cyberyacht]

OH had a Fiat Punto years ago and the belt went whilst at the traffic lights, so fortunately no engine damage. Makes you change the cam belt when you are told though.

 

[pelican]

My 1968 Bedford dormobile doesn't have a belt or a chain. The crankshaft drives the camshaft which pushes the push rods that rock the rockers that opens the valves, simple innit.
Also does 95mph since the gearbox was changed.

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[Northernraider]

In the “good old days” when I always bought older cars as I couldn’t afford anything else, cars with tens of hundreds of miles on the clock and probably never had a belt change and I certainly didn’t renew one in the 30-50k in the mileage I’d put on and fortunately never had one go… so are we being scared into renewing the belts on vehicles..? One particular petrol car I had I put over 50k on it and never changed the belt, were they supposed to be done every 5k on cars too

On my 3ltr ducato it’s a chain and now on 134k I don’t think it’s ever been done but drives like new….

In all the vehicles I ever owned I only did the belt changes on those I couldn't afford to write off. Mostly campers and motorhomes, I rarely kept a car long enough .


But I have in my lifetime had 4 timing belts snap on me , 1 I got repaired which cost more than I had paid for the car. The other 3 I scrapped .

With motorhomes I've always tried to prevent issues by having the belt changed and on 2 occasions I've still had problems, hymer was the worst where I got belt changed and the garage " alleged professionals" didn't chance auxiliary belts , one subsequently snapped a few weeks later got caught up in cambelt and damaged the belt the pulley and a few other things resulting in an even bigger repair bill than the original one.


Cambelts are a pain in the arse , but I think modern engines have way too many fragile bits these days compared to older engines.

 

[Northernraider]

Timing chains can and do fail , and of course they stretch ...might not be a huge amount but of course they do , the same way a chain on a motorbike or even a pedal cycle stretches .


But they are generally less problematic than rubber belts.

 

[ivorantony]

My 1968 Bedford dormobile doesn't have a belt or a chain. The crankshaft drives the camshaft which pushes the push rods that rock the rockers that opens the valves, simple innit.
Also does 95mph since the gearbox was changed.

I think you will find if it’s a Bedford CA it has a chain or if the later CF it’s a timing belt,

 

[Two on Tour]

My 1968 Bedford dormobile doesn't have a belt or a chain. The crankshaft drives the camshaft which pushes the push rods that rock the rockers that opens the valves, simple innit.
Also does 95mph since the gearbox was changed.

The crankshaft drives the camshaft via a timing chain.

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[Northernraider]

My 1968 Bedford dormobile doesn't have a belt or a chain. The crankshaft drives the camshaft which pushes the push rods that rock the rockers that opens the valves, simple innit.
Also does 95mph since the gearbox was changed.

Are you mad???

How exactly do you think the crankshaft drives the camshaft? Without them being connected?

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[Spriddler]

Cam belts are quieter, more economical and easier to change. Chains also stretch and can rattle, they are usually much harder to get at as well.

True enough, but at least a chain gives warning rattles. During 20 years in the trade I never heard of a chain breaking.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Simple if you don’t mine increasing the cost by £1000 for an engine

So only two belt changes and cost recovered

 

[ivorantony]

In my case I do my own so about £100 every 5 years, But inspected every year,

 

[Neilh]

Are you mad???

How exactly do you think the crankshaft drives the camshaft? Without them being connected?

With pushrod like it the olden days, like the Ford V8 pushrod engine hot rods

 

[pelican]

Are you mad???

How exactly do you think the crankshaft drives the camshaft? Without them being connected?

You tell me!

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[BikerGraham]

My Bailey on Peugeot boxer has a belt change frequency of 10 years.

But am planning getting for changed next year when it is 8 years old. Just for peace of mind.

While a pain and relatively costly it’s more costly if it fails.