Broken down in germany (1 Viewer)

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi all,
In Northern Germany, Just coasting to traffic lights and the clutch pedal goes down to the floor. But I manage to get it out of gear. Absolute chaos behind me. When the traffic moved in front of me I luckily managed to coast down the slope in front of me and start it in gear to get myself off the Road. Unfortunately on to a cycle track so am getting yelled at by irate German cyclists!
I have AA breakdown with Nationwide and have called them. It’s a 90 minute wait they say.
It’s a 2012 Fiat Ducato 6 speed manual.
Can the mechanics out there tell me what might have gone?
It looks like a mechanical linkage the pedal and the push rod inside is moving but I can’t see what might have broken in the engine bay.
Just a few pointers so I don’t get stitched up by the inevitable garage.
Thanks,
Steve

 

[Northernraider]

"wallets" and "well into 4 figures" are positive comments?

Talking about master cylinders and other experiences of members that are not relevant are helpful to old age travellers.

I'm happy they have been recovered. I'm trying to give practical advice to help in their decision making process.

Hence, my advice about AA contact for accommodation or contribution towards repair to prevent repatriation.

Good luck old age travellers

View attachment 936349

I think it helps to know who on the forum actually knows members and are friends with them . I think then you will find that the "wallet" comments etc are banter amongst friends . Whilst a few comments may be inaccurate I didn't see any that were not attempting to be helpful to the op.

There's no point whatsoever in posting up links to cheap parts found online as I guarantee the fiat garage will not be using them

 

[JockandRita]

Steve knows what he is doing I don't think when you are broken down in Germany it helps quoting low prices you can get parts for from UK motor factors.

Lenny, the Germans will have the either the same or similar, Motor Factors and suppliers of OE Spec parts which give the same warranty as Fiat parts. My complete OE Spec heavy duty clutch kit and DMF came from LUX, and with "mates rates" fitting, the job came in at just over half the price quoted by Iveco..........and..........the DMF was stamped Valeo.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny, the Germans will have the either the same or similar, Motor Factors and suppliers of OE Spec parts which give the same warranty as Fiat parts. My complete OE Spec heavy duty clutch kit and DMF came from LUX UK, and with "mates rates" fitting, the job came in at just over half the price quoted by Iveco..........and..........the DMF was stamped Valeo.

Cheers,

Jock.

But not very helpful when you are broken down in a forgien country you can't exactly shop around for parts you are at the mercy of the garage the breakdown company takes you to.
The van is going to a Fiat Professional garage it may not be cheap but should get it fixed properly.

 

[ChrisL]

Lenny, the Germans will have the either the same or similar, Motor Factors and suppliers of OE Spec parts which give the same warranty as Fiat parts. My complete OE Spec heavy duty clutch kit and DMF came from LUX UK, and with "mates rates" fitting, the job came in at just over half the price quoted by Iveco..........and..........the DMF was stamped Valeo.

Cheers,

Jock.

It's at a Fiat Proffesional garage, they won't be getting anything from motor factors, they will be using genuine Fiat parts from Fiat at genuine Fiat retail prices.

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[JockandRita]

It's at a Fiat Proffesional garage, they won't be getting anything from motor factors, they will be using genuine Fiat parts from Fiat at genuine Fiat retail prices.

Yes, I know that, but I'll bet the parts are not manufactured by Fiat at all, ie, they'll be Lux or Valeo, etc.

But not very helpful when you are broken down in a forgien country you can't exactly shop around for parts you are at the mercy of the garage the breakdown company takes you to.

Whom I would expect to source OE Spec parts.

The van is going to a Fiat Professional garage it may not be cheap but should get it fixed properly.

Using the same OE Spec parts that other Motor Manufactures also source, from producers like LUX and Valeo, etc.

OldAgeTravellers. Good luck getting it all sorted to your satisfaction ASAP.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[L' Hobo]

It's at a Fiat Proffesional garage, they won't be getting anything from motor factors, they will be using genuine Fiat parts from Fiat at genuine Fiat retail prices.

When I had my clutch done at a Fiat Professional depot, the Valeo pressure and clutch plate were delivered in a Euro parts van but charged at Fiat prices!

Sorry, just checked, it was a Luk clutch etc. not Valeo but that was 5 years ago and still going strong!

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hey everybody, don’t start fighting amongst yourselves!
Another update….
We walked to the Garage yesterday not expecting it to be open but hoping as we had left our watch charging cable in the van. The garage was closed but a couple of mechanics were there presumably working on their own cars. They let me get what I wanted from the van and a nice young lad went through what they had done. The gearbox and clutch were out. There was about a mm or less before the rivets. He said that the parts had been delivered. The clutch was too badly contaminated and thin so had to be replaced. The fault was the concentric slave cylinder as I had suspected. They would be reassembling it tomorrow, Monday.
I was very happy with the recovery, I was very happy that the garage were prepared to fit me in immediately, the price will be what it will be. I was not really in a position to shop around. Can you imagine saying to the tow truck guy. Can you take me to a Motor Factors so I can buy the parts at the cheapest prices and ask the Garage to fit them? Oh they will also need to guarantee their work.
At every point there has been somebody to speak in good English with us. I hate to think how a German not speaking English would get on in the same circumstances in the UK.
The price I imagine will be in four figures but hopefully with only a 1 at the beginning.
My worst experience has been with the AA, they tell you to sign up to their app so as to be fully informed about the breakdown then next having worked through the pages you have to phone. And not a freephone number! Then the massage says they are very busy and would you like a call back in two hours time which never comes. My phone for some reason will receive calls but won’t call out so I have to call them with Skype credit. Which is free for 0800 numbers but they don’t have an 0800 number so it is chargeable at Skype rates! Finally I get through on the phone and complain and get “we are very busy”.
I tell them that as it is a weekend it will not be done till late Monday or possibly Tuesday but you are not in a hotel booked by us they say. No. Because you don’t answer your b…… phone or call back when arranged so the garage booked it so phone them and sort it out. Three hours later I get a. Text to say it is sorted, I will find out on Tuesday. I did ask the Hotel it will be €500 B&B. But I looked on their website and it appears that we are in their Bridal Suite.
So I will let you all know on Tuesday how it all goes and the GoFundMe page to visit.
Have a good Sunday. Oh, MrWallet is in total shock and fainted so has handed over to his flexible friend.

 

[Lenny HB]

Good to hear garage are getting it sorted, sounds like you came up trumps with the garage.

Not sure if the hotel bit was a joke or not, if not you might have a battle as the breakdown insurance often as a limit on the price of accommodation, good luck.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Good to hear garage are getting it sorted, sounds like you came up trumps with the garage.

Not sure if the hotel bit was a joke or not, if not you might have a battle as the breakdown insurance often as a limit on the price of accommodation, good luck.

The AA limit is a total of £60 pppn but a limit of £500 per claim, they say they have been in touch and extended it to 4 days so we will see when we check out! Meanwhile life is too short to worry about things.
I think Judy sabotaged it as I don’t like Hotel Holidays but she does.

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[Brains]

Perhaps now, as you are have an enforced rest, is the time to do some research that will benefit all of us.
Which recovery company offers the best repair and recovery service for Motorhomes?

Keeping in mind it's mid August and half the AA, RAC, Green Flag etc staff will be on holiday and the other half the country is out in cars that are getting their first proper drive since last summer;

Our needs are very different to the average driver as:

• We have large vehicles, most are close to 3.5t with many around the 4t area and quite a few a lot larger.
• The smallest size of a motorhome is larger than the biggest car.
• We are in effect driving commercial vehicles, so need bigger tow trucks, bigger garages, bigger ramps.
• We tend to have only two occupants, but they tend to be older.
• The chances are when we need repair/recovery we are not within hundreds of miles of home.
• A fair percentage (over half for many) of our miles are not in the UK, so there will be language issues.
• The vast majority of our need for the services are in the summer.
• I suspect the average motorhome is considerably older than the average car.

 

[VXman]

My advise is, speak to the AA and ask if they will contribute to repair aa it will save them repatriation costs from Germany.

Why would they do that?. As far as I am aware most breakdown cover is fix at roadside if possible or recover to appropriate garage. They don't pay for repairs.

No need for repatriation on straight forward job like this.

 

[Itsmcb]

My van is being recovered from Belgium to the UK as I type. I can't fault the Nationwide/AA service, prompt recovery to a garage. Accommodation and travel costs reimbursed very quickly. My problem was the inability to find a garage in Belgium that could repair my van in a reasonable time. Garages backed up due to, or closed for, the summer holidays

 

[Nanniemate]

Perhaps now, as you are have an enforced rest, is the time to do some research that will benefit all of us.
Which recovery company offers the best repair and recovery service for Motorhomes?

Keeping in mind it's mid August and half the AA, RAC, Green Flag etc staff will be on holiday and the other half the country is out in cars that are getting their first proper drive since last summer;

Our needs are very different to the average driver as:

• We have large vehicles, most are close to 3.5t with many around the 4t area and quite a few a lot larger.
• The smallest size of a motorhome is larger than the biggest car.
• We are in effect driving commercial vehicles, so need bigger tow trucks, bigger garages, bigger ramps.
• We tend to have only two occupants, but they tend to be older.
• The chances are when we need repair/recovery we are not within hundreds of miles of home.
• A fair percentage (over half for many) of our miles are not in the UK, so there will be language issues.
• The vast majority of our need for the services are in the summer.
• I suspect the average motorhome is considerably older than the average car.

Don't for the dog

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Perhaps now, as you are have an enforced rest, is the time to do some research that will benefit all of us.
Which recovery company offers the best repair and recovery service for Motorhomes?

Keeping in mind it's mid August and half the AA, RAC, Green Flag etc staff will be on holiday and the other half the country is out in cars that are getting their first proper drive since last summer;

Our needs are very different to the average driver as:

• We have large vehicles, most are close to 3.5t with many around the 4t area and quite a few a lot larger.
• The smallest size of a motorhome is larger than the biggest car.
• We are in effect driving commercial vehicles, so need bigger tow trucks, bigger garages, bigger ramps.
• We tend to have only two occupants, but they tend to be older.
• The chances are when we need repair/recovery we are not within hundreds of miles of home.
• A fair percentage (over half for many) of our miles are not in the UK, so there will be language issues.
• The vast majority of our need for the services are in the summer.
• I suspect the average motorhome is considerably older than the average car.

It was actually quite funny, We are insured with Comfort which covers our 4.5 tonne Motorhome via the AA. So phoned the comfort breakdown number when we broke down she was great, very apologetic saying the system will not bring our details up. Can I hang on while she does some checking. No problem, it was a freephone number via Skype. She comes back very apologetic saying your not covered by Comfort you always have been but cancelled the breakdown this year. Oops…..
Ok, sorry, a few minutes of panick then realised. That we opened a Nationwide Flex+ policy last year for the health insurance which also covers breakdown for all our vehicles. So have cancelled the breakdown for each as they came up.
So I then had to start over using the Nationwide details, all very good until we were handed over to the AA which I assume would have been the same with Comfort.
The cover is all there, there has been no quibble with the 4.5 tonne the correct vehicle was sent out for a lift tow which handled our weight fine. So the £156 for the policy cost which covers the MoHo and our scooter for Europe cover is about the same as the £70 odd for each. Our car is with NFU which includes breakdown and can’t be excluded. So for £16 we get mobile phone cover which is next to useless because I don’t spend the excess on a phone. And the Holiday travel cover which is OK for conventional holidays up to 30 days but hardly works With Motorhome travel. Apart from the £185 underwriting for health issues they wanted another £950 to extend it to 90 days cover and required that both outward and inbound travel was booked at the same time or the cover would be invalid. So it is a minefield but for once in this case I paid the insurance. However if you add up the thirty or so years without a claim probably not worth it. BUT, broken down in a foreign country at 5:30 in the evening it is nice for somebody else who knows the system and has the contacts to sort things out.

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[Garfields]

OldAgeTravellers good you are on the way to getting sorted.
It sounds as if you would have been forking out for a clutch plate in the not to distant future anyway so as well getting it all done.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

OldAgeTravellers good you are on the way to getting sorted.
It sounds as if you would have been forking out for a clutch plate in the not to distant future anyway so as well getting it all done.

Yes probably would. I had a few times where I thought “Oh, that gear change is a bit stiff” and actually made a note in my “Jobs to do” to lubricate the gear lever linkage. But, it had pulled us up some absolutely ridiculous hairpin bends, fully loaded at just short of 4.5 tonne. Some seemed like about 45 deg and one the rear inside wheel dropped off into a deep hole on the hairpin, but it still pulled us out. But the slave cylinder was probably weeping and not releasing properly making the gear change stiff.
It could have been much worse and failed at the top of one of the mountain roads in Norway. Rather than in the middle of civilisation in Germany.
I certainly liked having the manual rather than the Sprint Shift Merc of our last van which would always change into the wrong gear just at the point it would cause maximum havoc.

 

[Northernraider]

Hey everybody, don’t start fighting amongst yourselves!
Another update….
We walked to the Garage yesterday not expecting it to be open but hoping as we had left our watch charging cable in the van. The garage was closed but a couple of mechanics were there presumably working on their own cars. They let me get what I wanted from the van and a nice young lad went through what they had done. The gearbox and clutch were out. There was about a mm or less before the rivets. He said that the parts had been delivered. The clutch was too badly contaminated and thin so had to be replaced. The fault was the concentric slave cylinder as I had suspected. They would be reassembling it tomorrow, Monday.
I was very happy with the recovery, I was very happy that the garage were prepared to fit me in immediately, the price will be what it will be. I was not really in a position to shop around. Can you imagine saying to the tow truck guy. Can you take me to a Motor Factors so I can buy the parts at the cheapest prices and ask the Garage to fit them? Oh they will also need to guarantee their work.
At every point there has been somebody to speak in good English with us. I hate to think how a German not speaking English would get on in the same circumstances in the UK.
The price I imagine will be in four figures but hopefully with only a 1 at the beginning.
My worst experience has been with the AA, they tell you to sign up to their app so as to be fully informed about the breakdown then next having worked through the pages you have to phone. And not a freephone number! Then the massage says they are very busy and would you like a call back in two hours time which never comes. My phone for some reason will receive calls but won’t call out so I have to call them with Skype credit. Which is free for 0800 numbers but they don’t have an 0800 number so it is chargeable at Skype rates! Finally I get through on the phone and complain and get “we are very busy”.
I tell them that as it is a weekend it will not be done till late Monday or possibly Tuesday but you are not in a hotel booked by us they say. No. Because you don’t answer your b…… phone or call back when arranged so the garage booked it so phone them and sort it out. Three hours later I get a. Text to say it is sorted, I will find out on Tuesday. I did ask the Hotel it will be €500 B&B. But I looked on their website and it appears that we are in their Bridal Suite.
So I will let you all know on Tuesday how it all goes and the GoFundMe page to visit.
Have a good Sunday. Oh, MrWallet is in total shock and fainted so has handed over to his flexible friend.

I expected you'd need to change the clutch...I had to have the one on my euramobil changed which was still nearly new because the crankshaft oil seal was leaking and it was contaminated. You can never get the oil out of them and it just slips. But if yours had only 1mm left you'd have had a clutch replacement needing done soon anyway so in a way its quite handy as you'll now have years of use left before it needs one again.
I also expected it to be 4 figures ...I reckon you'll be about £12-1600 all in which isn't too bad .

In the grand scheme of things it's not too bad .

I had to shell out £500 in Italy for an alternator I could have bought online for £150 but when you're travelling and break down it is what it is.

 

[Bramidan]

There are always people who whilst trying to helpful tell you “you should have done this etc”
Sounds to me that despite this traumatic experience the people who have assisted you ie breakdown and indeed the garage have been more than fair.
Yes, no doubt Mr Wallet will be cringing but nobody has died.
As previously mentioned it is likely your mechanical failures would have surfaced in the not too distant future so at least it sounds as if you can have faith in the garage dealing with the necessary repairs.
Obviously nobody would want to be in your position but what can you do?
I hope everything with the repair goes well and you can continue your holiday with confidence.
Staying in the Bridal Suite must earn you some brownie points.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

I expected you'd need to change the clutch...I had to have the one on my euramobil changed which was still nearly new because the crankshaft oil seal was leaking and it was contaminated. You can never get the oil out of them and it just slips. But if yours had only 1mm left you'd have had a clutch replacement needing done soon anyway so in a way its quite handy as you'll now have years of use left before it needs one again.
I also expected it to be 4 figures ...I reckon you'll be about £12-1600 all in which isn't too bad .

In the grand scheme of things it's not too bad .

I had to shell out £500 in Italy for an alternator I could have bought online for £150 but when you're travelling and break down it is what it is.

Yes it begs the question, if I had, had the clutch changed and the slave cylinder wasn’t weeping at the time whether they would have suggested another £100 or so for a new slave cylinder. Then it fail later having to do the whole job again. I think I am perhaps a bit lucky. But then I haven’t had the bill yet!

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[Northernraider]

Yes it begs the question, if I had, had the clutch changed and the slave cylinder wasn’t weeping at the time whether they would have suggested another £100 or so for a new slave cylinder. Then it fail later having to do the whole job again. I think I am perhaps a bit lucky. But then I haven’t had the bill yet!

Yes depends on the garage with stuff like that . I had a cambelt kit fitted on my hymer back in 2020 , they never changed the alternator belt and it snapped in Hastings 2 hours before my tunnel crossing only it got in the path of the cambelt caused it to jump the pulley and caused a whole load of trouble . Cost me more the second time , new cambelt again , new pulleys etc .. asked the garage why they never changed the alternator belt and they said " you never asked us too" so now I make a point of saying if you see anything else needing done in that area phone me or just do it

 

[L' Hobo]

Yes depends on the garage with stuff like that . I had a cambelt kit fitted on my hymer back in 2020 , they never changed the alternator belt and it snapped in Hastings 2 hours before my tunnel crossing only it got in the path of the cambelt caused it to jump the pulley and caused a whole load of trouble . Cost me more the second time , new cambelt again , new pulleys etc .. asked the garage why they never changed the alternator belt and they said " you never asked us too" so now I make a point of saying if you see anything else needing done in that area phone me or just do it

I changed ALL belts every time I change cambelt, it makes it easier to remember!

 

[1967bowesj]

OldAgeTravellers
Any update on the rebuild.

 

[the1andonly]

Yes depends on the garage with stuff like that . I had a cambelt kit fitted on my hymer back in 2020 , they never changed the alternator belt and it snapped in Hastings 2 hours before my tunnel crossing only it got in the path of the cambelt caused it to jump the pulley and caused a whole load of trouble . Cost me more the second time , new cambelt again , new pulleys etc .. asked the garage why they never changed the alternator belt and they said " you never asked us too" so now I make a point of saying if you see anything else needing done in that area phone me or just do it

When i had my cambelt done I mentioned the auxilary belts and new bolts the return was a brusque "do you think i don't know my job".

Whichever way you cant get it right (not me anyway)

 

[gus-lopez]

had the clutch changed and the slave cylinder wasn’t weeping at the time whether they would have suggested another £100 or so for a new slave cylinder.

I wouldn't be using any garage that didn't change any thrust bearing , which is what the internal slave cylinder includes, as a matter of course. It isn't just a 'slave cylinder' it contains the thrust bearing which is consumable & requires changing when the clutch is replaced

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[OldAgeTravellers]

Right you lot. We checked out of the hotel this morning. The AA hadn’t paid the bill as they said they had so paid that €492 for four days b&b. To be reclaimed I hope. Then was picked up by the garage owners wife and taken to the garage really nice lady then she sheepishly gave us the bill, guess how much?………….










Wait for it…………….€2,267.83 (£1,943.10) so extremely eye watering but we are on our way again. Have met up with our friends in Lubeck and had a great day. The clutch seems very light and I seemto have to push the pedal a long way before disengagement but it is very smooth with no judder which I was getting a bit before. But that is all very subjective.
The long and short of it is that we are back on our way with just a few days minor inconvenience and a new clutch for a bit more than I was expecting but such is life. It hasn’t spoiled our fantastic holiday so far and it is a job that obviously needed doing. And, most important it didn’t happen on a narrow hairpin bend up a single track mountain road in Norway.
Thanks for all the help advice and loving thoughts sent by all. It meant a lot to us both.
Steve & Judy and Jemimer the Hymer.

 

[Nanniemate]

So pleased for you and such a positive outcome enjoy your adventures

 

[jongood]

Right you lot. We checked out of the hotel this morning. The AA hadn’t paid the bill as they said they had so paid that €492 for four days b&b. To be reclaimed I hope. Then was picked up by the garage owners wife and taken to the garage really nice lady then she sheepishly gave us the bill, guess how much?………….










Wait for it…………….€2,267.83 (£1,943.10) so extremely eye watering but we are on our way again. Have met up with our friends in Lubeck and had a great day. The clutch seems very light and I seemto have to push the pedal a long way before disengagement but it is very smooth with no judder which I was getting a bit before. But that is all very subjective.
The long and short of it is that we are back on our way with just a few days minor inconvenience and a new clutch for a bit more than I was expecting but such is life. It hasn’t spoiled our fantastic holiday so far and it is a job that obviously needed doing. And, most important it didn’t happen on a narrow hairpin bend up a single track mountain road in Norway.
Thanks for all the help advice and loving thoughts sent by all. It meant a lot to us both.
Steve & Judy and Jemimer the Hymer.

Glad you re sorted without too much disruption. Ok its a big bill but they did it quickly. From what other people have reported, I would suggest that if you had comfortmatic the bill would have been twice that and probably taken a lot longer.

 

[1967bowesj]

Right you lot. We checked out of the hotel this morning. The AA hadn’t paid the bill as they said they had so paid that €492 for four days b&b. To be reclaimed I hope. Then was picked up by the garage owners wife and taken to the garage really nice lady then she sheepishly gave us the bill, guess how much?………….










Wait for it…………….€2,267.83 (£1,943.10) so extremely eye watering but we are on our way again. Have met up with our friends in Lubeck and had a great day. The clutch seems very light and I seemto have to push the pedal a long way before disengagement but it is very smooth with no judder which I was getting a bit before. But that is all very subjective.
The long and short of it is that we are back on our way with just a few days minor inconvenience and a new clutch for a bit more than I was expecting but such is life. It hasn’t spoiled our fantastic holiday so far and it is a job that obviously needed doing. And, most important it didn’t happen on a narrow hairpin bend up a single track mountain road in Norway.
Thanks for all the help advice and loving thoughts sent by all. It meant a lot to us both.
Steve & Judy and Jemimer the Hymer.

Glad you are back on the road and relatively quick. The bill,,,,,, larger than youd have liked but arent they all these days. If you share it out over how long you have had and are going to have the van I bet it aint much a month.

 

[Gellyneck]

Right you lot. We checked out of the hotel this morning. The AA hadn’t paid the bill as they said they had so paid that €492 for four days b&b. To be reclaimed I hope. Then was picked up by the garage owners wife and taken to the garage really nice lady then she sheepishly gave us the bill, guess how much?………….










Wait for it…………….€2,267.83 (£1,943.10) so extremely eye watering but we are on our way again. Have met up with our friends in Lubeck and had a great day. The clutch seems very light and I seemto have to push the pedal a long way before disengagement but it is very smooth with no judder which I was getting a bit before. But that is all very subjective.
The long and short of it is that we are back on our way with just a few days minor inconvenience and a new clutch for a bit more than I was expecting but such is life. It hasn’t spoiled our fantastic holiday so far and it is a job that obviously needed doing. And, most important it didn’t happen on a narrow hairpin bend up a single track mountain road in Norway.
Thanks for all the help advice and loving thoughts sent by all. It meant a lot to us both.
Steve & Judy and Jemimer the Hymer.

Great news on the important bit. You're back on the road and enjoying yourselves again.

Mr Card will recover (eventually). Placing him in the back of a dark drawer will help with this!

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[Manic]

Good service I think, in UK you would still be waiting for a slot in garage schedule.