Broken down in germany

[OldAgeTravellers]

Hi all,
In Northern Germany, Just coasting to traffic lights and the clutch pedal goes down to the floor. But I manage to get it out of gear. Absolute chaos behind me. When the traffic moved in front of me I luckily managed to coast down the slope in front of me and start it in gear to get myself off the Road. Unfortunately on to a cycle track so am getting yelled at by irate German cyclists!
I have AA breakdown with Nationwide and have called them. It’s a 90 minute wait they say.
It’s a 2012 Fiat Ducato 6 speed manual.
Can the mechanics out there tell me what might have gone?
It looks like a mechanical linkage the pedal and the push rod inside is moving but I can’t see what might have broken in the engine bay.
Just a few pointers so I don’t get stitched up by the inevitable garage.
Thanks,
Steve

 

[ChrisL]

At least it didn't happen in France, you would have needed a second mortgage if it had.

 

[Brains]

Whereabouts in Northern Germany are you ?

As with the combined power of 50 UK based PC's we may collectively be able to find a Garage that will take a look.

However just remember today is Assumption Day.
The last major bank holiday until Xmas.
Therefore the chances of any German mechanic being interested in taking a serious look or proposing a solution this side of the weekend is close to zero!

Find a garage in a town where you can live on the forecourt for a week if needed (or has a decent hotel nearby, and local things to see and do, ideally near a rail station!).

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Opposite side to what you said eairler so it's probably the slave cylinder so worth changing clutch while the bell housing is off & DMF if you have one.

Oi, keep quiet you are really upsetting Mr. Wallet. What the hell is the DMF. Probably too expensive to say it’s name out loud. They arrived quite soon after the AA said another two hours, nice guy lift towed us to their compound for the night. Terrified me going along leafy lanes and through chicanes. But all looked ok, in the dark.
We are now at 23:45 in their compound for the night with a very large G&T. They will ring round for us at 8am tomorrow. Will have to find a clock with that time on it.
Thanks for all the help and suggestions I will keep you posted. Nity nite.

 

[Lenny HB]

What the hell is the DMF. Probably too expensive to say it’s name out loud.

Dual Mass Flywheel, couldn't remember what engine you had, with the manual box only the 3 Lt had them.

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[Coastal Cruiser.]

Dual Mass Flywheel,

Thought it was Definitely More Funds but I’m no mechanic

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Dual Mass Flywheel, couldn't remember what engine you had, with the manual box only the 3 Lt had them.

Phew, we have the 2.3lt 150. Would have liked the 3lt especially with some of the mountains we have driven on this trip.

 

[Northernraider]

Be prepared for the cost to be between £1200 and £1600 for repair. Probably not what you want to hear but it cost me a grand just for a clutch replacement on 3.0l fiat. They managed to save my flywheel but I was informed at the time they're about £7-800 and then the slave cylinder on top. Unfortunately everything will be contaminated with oil. Depending on your mileage they may recommend a flywheel change anyway.


But at least once it's all replaced you've no worries in that department for a good few years.

Bleedin nightmare breaking down when abroad though.

 

[Northernraider]

Phew, we have the 2.3lt 150. Would have liked the 3lt especially with some of the mountains we have driven on this trip.

Fortunately then my above post doesn't apply...posted at the same time you posted this.

 

[Nanniemate]

I have to add my 2 penith

Have another G&T sleep well try not to worry until you know what is wrong.

Then get the CCard out get it fixed and enjoy the rest of your holiday

That's the extent of my mechcanical advice

Sleep well

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[Lenny HB]

Steve if you didn't already know Gin is the same price in Germany as it is in Spain well it is in Lidl. I only found out last year dispite going to & through Germany for many years.

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

OK, we have an update.
Having been recovered to the ADAC recovery compound we had a good night then reported to the office at 8am. The guy that recovered us immediately honed a Fiat Professional Garage who said they could do it straight away. So another two hours before they had a suitable vehicle for a lift tow to the garage. The recovery guy waited and translated for us as the governor didn’t.
We had a choice, we obviously couldn’t sleep in it while it was on the ramp, they could book us into a Hotel and they could put it on the ramp right away and remove the gearbox to check for the problem. Order the parts for Monday and put it back together on Monday, or we could stay in it till Monday and they would start work on Monday. We chose the former so they brought us to the hotel where we are now.
So fingers crossed that there no problems with parts and we should be on our way sometime on Tuesday.
Now just to get in touch with the AA and see what they will pay for.

 

[Gaston aires]

If you end up having to pull up the clutch pedal manually, wrap a bungee around it and secure it to a suitable place under the dashboard. It will, at least, get you home.
Phil

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

If you end up having to pull up the clutch pedal manually, wrap a bungee around it and secure it to a suitable place under the dashboard. It will, at least, get you home.
Phil

Sorry but no that wouldn’t work. There was no clutch pressure at all, could waggle the clutch pedal up and down to the floor with one finger. I suspect the slave cylinder seals have gone as there is oil leaking from the bell housing. The slave cylinder is inside the bell housing and from what I can see incorporates the thrust bearing thereby doing away with any levers. The gearbox has to come off. Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[ianp]

Sorry but no that wouldn’t work. There was no clutch pressure at all, could waggle the clutch pedal up and down to the floor with one finger. I suspect the slave cylinder seals have gone as there is oil leaking from the bell housing. The slave cylinder is inside the bell housing and from what I can see incorporates the thrust bearing thereby doing away with any levers. The gearbox has to come off. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Nice to have a firm and positive response from the garage rather than a lot of sucking in of air and who ar'ing........ hope you can make use of and enjoy the weekend.....a nice little unexpected break from the norm!

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[Lenny HB]

Are you going to get the clutch changed while bell housing is off?

 

[WESTY66]

Are you going to get the clutch changed while bell housing is off?

Be bonkers not to

I’d change everything inside that bell housing if it were me

 

[Brains]

Nice to have a firm and positive response from the garage rather than a lot of sucking in of air and who ar'ing........ hope you can make use of and enjoy the weekend.....a nice little unexpected break from the norm!

They saw how thick his wallet was!
Either that or he will be selling his relatives for the next 7 generations!

 

[OldAgeTravellers]

Are you going to get the clutch changed while bell housing is off?

It was interesting, I said about fitting a new clutch at the same time and they said, “We will look inside first then ring you to decide” which I thought was really honest not rubbing their hands thinking goody we can do whatever we want.

 

[Barriesimpson]

It was interesting, I said about fitting a new clutch at the same time and they said, “We will look inside first then ring you to decide” which I thought was really honest not rubbing their hands thinking goody we can do whatever we want.

I would expect that from our Germans cousins, they are a strict race with a high education (not all, obviously) and I find them trust worthy in my daily dealings with them.

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[Figaro]

Agree with ianp , so good to hear a positive attitude from the garage and a willingness to get you back on the road quickly and with options for you to decide which suit you best.
Time for a few more G&T's

 

[1967bowesj]

It was interesting, I said about fitting a new clutch at the same time and they said, “We will look inside first then ring you to decide” which I thought was really honest not rubbing their hands thinking goody we can do whatever we want.

That will go some way to lighten the impending wallet bashing. You feel you can atleast partly trust them from the brief deallings and honest upfront answers. Enjoy as best you can the weekend and heres hoping early next week you back on the road.

 

[bigwood]

From my time station in Germany and working alongside German engineers they do appear abrupt and have no leeway but once you get used to them they get the work done without question. Outside work they welcomed us into their lifestyle and customs.

 

[A-Mech]

All the doom and gloom merchant's at someone else's expense in a foreign land.

Remember to speak to AA about emergency accommodation.

The fault will be slave cylinder.

Best case:
The gearbox will have to be removed, clean out inside of Bell housing of brake fluid and replace concentric clutch cylinder. Spray clutch cover with brake cleaner and refit gearbox and bleed clutch.
5 hours labour and concentric clutch cylinder (£50 ish)

Worst case:
As above and replacement of clutch cover and friction plate (clutch set £150 ish) with 1 more hours labour.

In truth on a ramp, you could have box out and back in in 3 hours ready to go again.

My advise is, speak to the AA and ask if they will contribute to repair aa it will save them repatriation costs from Germany.

Good luck


Section 5 - Emergency accommodation in
Europe
Your costs, over and above those you have
budgeted for, for overnight accommodation of
up to £60 per person, per night if the repairer
estimates that the repairs to your vehicle will
take more than eight (8) hours (emergency
accommodation can be used in conjunction
with section 4 above)

 

[ChrisL]

All the doom and gloom merchant's at someone else's expense in a foreign land.

Remember to speak to AA about emergency accommodation.

The fault will be slave cylinder.

Best case:
The gearbox will have to be removed, clean out inside of Bell housing of brake fluid and replace concentric clutch cylinder. Spray clutch cover with brake cleaner and refit gearbox and bleed clutch.
5 hours labour and concentric clutch cylinder (£50 ish)

Worst case:
As above and replacement of clutch cover and friction plate (clutch set £150 ish) with 1 more hours labour.

In truth on a ramp, you could have box out and back in in 3 hours ready to go again.

My advise is, speak to the AA and ask if they will contribute to repair aa it will save them repatriation costs from Germany.

Good luck


Section 5 - Emergency accommodation in
Europe
Your costs, over and above those you have
budgeted for, for overnight accommodation of
up to £60 per person, per night if the repairer
estimates that the repairs to your vehicle will
take more than eight (8) hours (emergency
accommodation can be used in conjunction
with section 4 above)



View attachment 936298

It's at a Fiat Professional garage so they won't be fitting any pattern parts, it will be full genuine OEM parts priced accordingly.

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[A-Mech]

It might be in a fiat box, but who makes fiat clutch assemblies. Valeo?
2012 MH isn't under manufacturer's warranty so getting roadworthy again is the most important thing. Getting striped up for dual mass is not necessary.

 

[Barriesimpson]

It might be in a fiat box, but who makes fiat clutch assemblies. Valeo?
2012 MH isn't under manufacturer's warranty so getting roadworthy again is the most important thing. Getting striped up for dual mass is not necessary.

Yes, probably Valeo. So any Valeo parts should do it.

 

[Northernraider]

It might be in a fiat box, but who makes fiat clutch assemblies. Valeo?
2012 MH isn't under manufacturer's warranty so getting roadworthy again is the most important thing. Getting striped up for dual mass is not necessary.

We already established after the op stated it was a 2.3l and not a 3.0l that it doesn't have a dual mass.

I never seen anyone being a doom and gloom merchant only people sharing their previous experiences.

Fortunately the op seems to have found a trustworthy garage who can do the job immediately and they won't rip him off. That's the main thing

 

[rolosroller]

for

 

[Lenny HB]

Steve knows what he is doing I don't think when you are broken down in Germany it helps quoting low prices you can get parts for from UK motor factors.

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[A-Mech]

We already established after the op stated it was a 2.3l and not a 3.0l that it doesn't have a dual mass.

I never seen anyone being a doom and gloom merchant only people sharing their previous experiences.

Fortunately the op seems to have found a trustworthy garage who can do the job immediately and they won't rip him off. That's the main thing

"wallets" and "well into 4 figures" are positive comments?

Talking about master cylinders and other experiences of members that are not relevant are helpful to old age travellers.

I'm happy they have been recovered. I'm trying to give practical advice to help in their decision making process.

Hence, my advice about AA contact for accommodation or contribution towards repair to prevent repatriation.

Good luck old age travellers