Brand new Fiat 180 hp euro 6 engine completely failed after 1hour.

[Ceetee]

We recently picked up our brand new Carthago Chic C-line A class motorhome from the agent, driving it for the first time my wife and I both commented how quiet the engine was and how smooth the 9 speed automatic gearchange was. After about 1 hour of driving on the M5 the engine suddenly made a fairly loud pop, clouds of steam streamed out of the back, I thought at first that I had got a puncture and it was smoke.
We then spent hours waiting for emergency assistance. The motorhome was taken back to the agent and we are told that it needs a new engine. I can't get any information from the agent as to what was the original problem, they have told me various contradictory reasons for the failure. It is now two months since I last saw my motorhome.
My concern now is, is the latest Fiat engine 180hp up to the job? or are they trying to get too much out of this engine?
My previous motorhome was a Swift Kontiki 649 which had a 3 ltr fiat engine and never had a problem with it.
I understand that the 180 hp version of this engine has a stronger steel crank shaft and beefed up pistons.
Has anyone got one of these engines in their motorhome without problems?

 

[Andy 63]

If I was picking up a brand new vehicle I wouldn’t be driving it home on the motorway. Varying the speed, accelerating and decelerating is the best way to care for a new engine.
Old fashioned thinking?, maybe.

Definitely old fashioned thinking, there is no need for the old method of "running in" anymore.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Definitely old fashioned thinking, there is no need for the old method of "running in" anymore.

I agree, mostly but I’d still do it to give the turbo/s a chance to vary in temperature.

 

[Boy]

Do not mess about with the motor home reject it completely
Not fit for purpose
I made the mistake many years ago and let them replace the engine
First they wanted to install recon engine which I rejected
I did get a new engine in the end after many long arguments
Never again never trusted the vehicle again

 

[Ianj55]

Really sorry to read of your devastating problem just an hour after taking delivery. We bought a Chic e-line in March 2016 and had nothing but problems, had it not been for support from the dealer we wouldn’t have it now. Your dealer has to be pro active albeit Carthago won’t want to know about your problem as it is down to Fiat. Met someone in Portugal who took delivery like you with the same engine, it blew up after 56 miles was then repaired , picked it up went down the road and the same thing happened. They replaced with another Carthago with better spec ! Somewhere in this country there will be another unit like yours, do some homework find one at another dealers and insist on a change as you are refusing your unit. If within 30 days you are not satisfied under the law they have to replace or refund your money. Carthago have a customer service department but they don’t speak to customers as they leave it to their dealers, so put the pressure on the dealer, they will not want to refund or replace. Seek an extended warranty if you get yours back. Pressure the dealer. Good luck

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Boy]

I note the comment about two warranties
It’s one in real term it’s the motor home dealer
Who is the main one
I tock the company to court after months of refusing to accept responsibility
When they got to court they admitted responsibility
Send it back just for peace of mind for the future

 

[Garry - June]

I think if it was me I would be rejecting it straight away and asking for a full refund. Start again. Wouldn't want a brand new van with a replacement engine.

You would be surprised at what sits on automotive dealers forecourts advertised as brand new which has already undergone major repairs...be it full resprays to replaced mechanical components...

 

[Cidered]

OP posted this and hasn’t returned to look at replies or comments. Strange.

 

[Badknee]

OP posted this and hasn’t returned to look at replies or comments. Strange.

Yes, not a word. Lots of speculation and advice from others. I wonder what’s gone on with it? He was last seen at 18.19 on Friday.

 

[dash300]

The question is. Did the engine have any oil in…

There has been at least 2 others on here alone.

One of those may well have been a Bailey and a PSA engine.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[acropolis22]

I understand that the 180 hp version of this engine has a stronger steel crank shaft and beefed up pistons.

Is this correct? Both the main engine remap specialists do a remap from 160 to 180 bhp. Would this be a good idea if the factory uses beefed up components for the 180?

 

[Mike Rivers]

If the motorhome is ‘Brand New’ as you say I’d be asking for a replacement motorhome. I wouldn’t be too happy allowing them to replace the engine as I’d always have a question mark in my head as to whether it had been fitted correctly. You paid for a factory fresh unit and that’s what you should get. If the unit was technically second-hand (as in a demonstrator) then the offer of a replacement engine seems reasonable if that’s ok with you. Swapping for another motorhome is an option but this was your first choice because it ticked all the boxes for you. My only concern would be around the competency of the people who’d be changing the engine. Letting a dealer do an annual oil and brake service is one thing, changing an engine is a job for a FIAT main dealer.

 

[MikeManning]

Old fashioned thinking. 180bhp from a 2.3 engine is nothing these days. For example, Toyota have a 3 cylinder 1600 engine in production which produces 268bhp.

Years ago I took my HGV in a Bedford RL, with a 4,9 litre engine and 110bhp. Times change and engineering greatly improves.

I have a 160bhp Fiat engine in mine and never give it a second thought. Indeed a 2.3 engine is large by today's standards.

Sorry about the problem. It would seem with the scarcity of new vans these days, rejecting it would be simply cutting off your nose to spite your face. It won't take long to get a new engine and then it will be as good as new.

These things happen. Annoying but life's too short to make a big thing of it.

Yeah....just get over it!!!!! Totally unbelievable reaction!

 

[Zakattak]

Phone fiat Camper assist is best advise
Glad we took out Fiat 5 year warranty, £850 but worth it for peace of mind

 

[Regdel Fun Bus]

We had a similar situation with our first new Motorhome in 2016, it was a gearbox and steering rack issue and not an engine failure on this occasion
We were initially told no Uk stock available and ours would have to be repaired, the repair was not successful and
a Very long story short, I called all UK dealers and the manufacturer, and found an almost identical replacement at another dealership in the Uk and they arranged for us to have the replacement.
I know stock is very limited and this still may not be possible, however…..
My concern especially with an A class is that they are more difficult to work on for normal servicing and general maintenance as often discussed on this and other forums, including access for cam belt changing etc, the engine was fitted into the chassis prior to it going to the converters, so now after the Motorhome has been added to the chassis? Surely trying to fit a new engine will be quite a task, and will only be as good as the mechanic who fits it who will not be at a purpose built assembly line, fitting everything in the order it was meant to be at the Fiat factory?
Also depending on the failure which has not been communicated yet, debris from the failure could still be in the oil cooler, oil feed pipes and turbo’s etc, that will be refitted back onto the replacement engine Fiat supply, that debris can cause additional issues, which I have experienced first hand with a different manufacturer.
Happily we formed a good relationship with the initial supplying dealer, they came through with a replacement vehicle for us, and we have had 3 new Motorhomes from them to date, and feel they have our best interest when things go wrong, which let’s face it, they do.
The issues are with Fiat and not the dealers, we have found everyone behaves well when things are going well, and not always the case when they do not, but hopefully your supplying dealer will look after you well
Best wishes going forward

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Platelet]

Sorry to hear of your incident. Did you pay the deposit by credit card? You “MAY” get some help and advice from them.

 

[gus-lopez]

OP posted this and hasn’t returned to look at replies or comments. Strange.

Yes ,it could be he didn't expect replies this quick but it might also be the reason he is still waiting for a dealer repsonse after 2 months?
Me, i'd have given them, 24 hours then i'd be calling/ on the doorrstep permanently.

 

[highwood122]

got one of these only done 1400 ml, very nice so far. i thought this engine was developed by a group of manufacturers not just fiat

 

[dash300]

Old fashioned thinking. 180bhp from a 2.3 engine is nothing these days. For example, Toyota have a 3 cylinder 1600 engine in production which produces 268bhp.

Years ago I took my HGV in a Bedford RL, with a 4,9 litre engine and 110bhp. Times change and engineering greatly improves.

I have a 160bhp Fiat engine in mine and never give it a second thought. Indeed a 2.3 engine is large by today's standards.

Sorry about the problem. It would seem with the scarcity of new vans these days, rejecting it would be simply cutting off your nose to spite your face. It won't take long to get a new engine and then it will be as good as new.

These things happen. Annoying but life's too short to make a big thing of it.

I have a Volvo 4 pot Diesel of 2ltrs pushing out 181 hp. It pulls like a train through an auto box and hauls a 1.5 ton LR S2a on a trailer without issue and it's on 130K miles and uses no oil. In fact the same engine on other models in the range push out 235hp.

 

[CazPaul]

Money back in full stuff the wait, I would sooner do without than keep it.

Sometimes I’m glad we have our simple Iveco 3 litre 2005, no fancy electronics, no dpf, no CAT.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[dunnah01]

180bhp is pretty meaningless unless you're in marketing. The torque of the 180bhp auto is set to 450Nm at 1500rpm which is probably too high for something pulling getting on for 4 tonnes. The manual 180bhp is only set to 380Nm which is a bit closer to other 2.3 engines.

 

[Steve-N]

If I was picking up a brand new vehicle I wouldn’t be driving it home on the motorway. Varying the speed, accelerating and decelerating is the best way to care for a new engine.
Old fashioned thinking?, maybe.

Very old fashioned for modern engines using synthetic oils.
Modern engines are manufactured to very much higher tolerances that running in is not recommended.

No different to the old fashioned view of warming up an engine before driving, it is now strongly recommended that a modern vehicle is driven immediately after starting.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Very old fashioned for modern engines using synthetic oils.
Modern engines are manufactured to very much higher tolerances that running in is not recommended.

No different to the old fashioned view of warming up an engine before driving, it is now strongly recommended that a modern vehicle is driven immediately after starting.

Not true of all modern vehicles, my 2021 BMW motorcycle had a running period of 600miles, gradually increasing revs and varying speeds, not maintaining constant speeds or labouring the engine in high gears.
The above should apply to any brand new vehicle particularly with complex turbos thrown into the mix.
I never seen running in as ‘not recommended’, not necessary maybe.
Warming the engine before driving off is indeed daft but I never mentioned that did I?

 

[RandallC]

Phone fiat Camper assist is best advise
Glad we took out Fiat 5 year warranty, £850 but worth it for peace of mind

think you have 15 days from purchase to register (pay) for extra years warranty.

 

[Paul and Val]

It is extremely unfortunate and I feel for you.
As far as I am aware the 180bhp engine was substantially improved generally over the old feeble 130bhp model.
As long as it is the FIAT main dealer changing the engine and you are getting a new NOT repaired engine then I would accept the work. I would also be negotiating with FIAT for a free of charge extended warranty over and above the normal.
Despite a few incorrect and outdated views above about Ford engines being problematical, the later Transit engine is indestructible but the later, and I stress the later, FIAT engines are sound and I would not be concerned about a replacement.
Other comments about chasing the dealer for a free loan van are also a very sound and fair idea.
I wish you luck and please keep us all informed on how it goes.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Old Gibber]

Very old fashioned for modern engines using synthetic oils.
Modern engines are manufactured to very much higher tolerances that running in is not recommended.

No different to the old fashioned view of warming up an engine before driving, it is now strongly recommended that a modern vehicle is driven immediately after starting.

For the Fiat, clearly running in is recommended. There are a couple of references in the Fiat handbook to running in:

 

[Landy Andy]

There is a difference between not needing to run an engine in, and it not being a good thing.

Modern engines are like most modern things. Mass produced and 90% of the time work ok, but not 100%

 

[Old Gibber]

Despite a few incorrect and outdated views above about Ford engines being problematical, the later Transit engine is indestructible but the later, and I stress the later,

.... not quite. There is still a significant ongoing injector problem with new Ford engines in motorhomes.

 

[Dorwyn]

Joined in this late but I had my van serviced by possibly this dealer (if I read this right) at its 4th year, asked did they use genuine Fiat parts. He evaded the question slightly, saying they would honour the guarantee. A few months later, I noticed oil on my drive. Took the van to a local garage who simply said, take it back, they should do it for free. A very nervous 40 mile drive later, the dealer said, oh yes, we had a bad batch of filters! I was amazed at his sanguine reply. I'd just been going on a long trip to Italy! Why didn't they advise customers? I've never been back even to shop there.

 

[Jamesh]

It is extremely unfortunate and I feel for you.
As far as I am aware the 180bhp engine was substantially improved generally over the old feeble 130bhp model.
As long as it is the FIAT main dealer changing the engine and you are getting a new NOT repaired engine then I would accept the work. I would also be negotiating with FIAT for a free of charge extended warranty over and above the normal.
Despite a few incorrect and outdated views above about Ford engines being problematical, the later Transit engine is indestructible but the later, and I stress the later, FIAT engines are sound and I would not be concerned about a replacement.
Other comments about chasing the dealer for a free loan van are also a very sound and fair idea.
I wish you luck and please keep us all informed on how it goes.

Which transit engine do you speak if?

The old puma 2.2 seems quite robust, but the dpf system esp on minibus were problematic....

The cambelt and injectors on later 2.0 panther models likewise.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tony50]

It's ridiculous, having to wait 2 months to get a new engine , when I had a garage and was a service agent for Renault , Renault France sent a new crankshaft , and it was the wrong one it happened 3 times , apparently some one in France was putting the wrong crankshaft in the correct labelled box , I received 3 crankshafts over 3days, in 24 hour intervals. somebody some where want their ar--e kicked.
In saying that when I have spoken to Fiat they have always been helpful