Brand new Fiat 180 hp euro 6 engine completely failed after 1hour.

[Ceetee]

We recently picked up our brand new Carthago Chic C-line A class motorhome from the agent, driving it for the first time my wife and I both commented how quiet the engine was and how smooth the 9 speed automatic gearchange was. After about 1 hour of driving on the M5 the engine suddenly made a fairly loud pop, clouds of steam streamed out of the back, I thought at first that I had got a puncture and it was smoke.
We then spent hours waiting for emergency assistance. The motorhome was taken back to the agent and we are told that it needs a new engine. I can't get any information from the agent as to what was the original problem, they have told me various contradictory reasons for the failure. It is now two months since I last saw my motorhome.
My concern now is, is the latest Fiat engine 180hp up to the job? or are they trying to get too much out of this engine?
My previous motorhome was a Swift Kontiki 649 which had a 3 ltr fiat engine and never had a problem with it.
I understand that the 180 hp version of this engine has a stronger steel crank shaft and beefed up pistons.
Has anyone got one of these engines in their motorhome without problems?

 

[GAVLAD]

The problem with deciding to reject the van is as I see it is not an easy one.
As we all know you have 2 separate warranties on your new toy.
1 with the Motorhome dealer, / convertor.
1 with the base vehicle manufacturer.
The ops problem is not with the conversion it is with the base vehicle.

That said the Motorhome dealership should be pulling out all the stops to get fiat to sort this and quickly.

Should that become the dealers problem though as the contract of purchase is between the new owner and the dealer?
The new owner can reject the motorhome under the circumstances and request a full refund and then it's for the dealer to sort with their suppliers.
The warranties are for if the new owner decides to make a claim which is accepting that they will be keeping the motorhome which in turn will be accepting any repair work to make good.
I totally agree with you though that the dealer should be prioritising this to appease the new owner.
The negativity that this generates could sway customers away from both dealer and builder.
Whatever the outcome, I hope that Ceetee is happy with it as it's a lot of money spent if not totally satisfied.

 

[Phill D]

What really shows the complacency of some motorhome dealers is to compare the reaction from the ops dealer to say that of a Mercedes new car dealer.
If you had spent 100k on a new merc and the engine blew on the way home from collection they would be all over you like a rash.

 

[nev robinson]

We recently picked up our brand new Carthago Chic C-line A class motorhome from the agent, driving it for the first time my wife and I both commented how quiet the engine was and how smooth the 9 speed automatic gearchange was. After about 1 hour of driving on the M5 the engine suddenly made a fairly loud pop, clouds of steam streamed out of the back, I thought at first that I had got a puncture and it was smoke.
We then spent hours waiting for emergency assistance. The motorhome was taken back to the agent and we are told that it needs a new engine. I can't get any information from the agent as to what was the original problem, they have told me various contradictory reasons for the failure. It is now two months since I last saw my motorhome.
My concern now is, is the latest Fiat engine 180hp up to the job? or are they trying to get too much out of this engine?
My previous motorhome was a Swift Kontiki 649 which had a 3 ltr fiat engine and never had a problem with it.
I understand that the 180 hp version of this engine has a stronger steel crank shaft and beefed up pistons.
Has anyone got one of these engines in their motorhome without problems?

The question is. Did the engine have any oil in…

 

[nev robinson]

The problem with deciding to reject the van is as I see it is not an easy one.
As we all know you have 2 separate warranties on your new toy.
1 with the Motorhome dealer, / convertor.
1 with the base vehicle manufacturer.
The ops problem is not with the conversion it is with the base vehicle.

That said the Motorhome dealership should be pulling out all the stops to get fiat to sort this and quickly.

The sad part is the dealer only deals with the camper side and they say engine and chassis side as nothing to do with us,and we don’t even PDI it.

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[Phill D]

The sad part is the dealer only deals with the camper side and they say engine and chassis side as nothing to do with us,and we don’t even PDI it.

That's why I suggested that rejection of the vehicle could be a bigger mine field than a normal vehicle.

 

[Phill D]

Just add another small watch out!

If a new engine has to come front Italy then they have a long summer shutdown.
Several years ago we needed a large part for our Italian built motorhome and it took we over 8 weeks because the warehouse in Italy was on summer break.

 

[PaulC70]

That's why I suggested that rejection of the vehicle could be a bigger mine field than a normal vehicle.

not with sale of goods and statutory rights. Exact same process, you didn't enter into two seperate contracts ie one with fiat and one with the motorhome dealer. It's one contract for one purchase.

 

[TinaLes]

Its a nightmare situation for The OP or anyone else that this happens to, only 1hour up the road and your 100K plus MH engine blows up.
Its also a major problem for the dealer as they probably dont have a replacement in stock at this end of the market, plus they are at the mercy of Fiat to fix it, and they are not renowned for their speedy parts delivery, so yes it could take a couple of months to get it fixed and back on the road.
Then there is the other can of worms to think about.
Would you trust the van would be Ok, like new again, or is it maybe jinxed.
How long before a replacement van could be supplied, 1year, 2 years stuck at home with nothing to get away in.
Reject the van, get your money back, buy another van type maybe.
Maybe, just maybe, another dealer somewhere has a similar van, and a deal could be struck between dealers to get a replacement.
Would you trust The Fiat 180PS engine for reliability/longevity.

Big decision, but you are at the mercy of the dealership & Fiat, I am wondering if the dealer was Chelston Motor Homes, if so I would like to think they will do their utmost to help as best they can, the have been very accommodating with us and our Carthago choice in the end.
Good luck to The OP.
LES

 

[Pausim]

Our Carthago came from a dealer that also has Fiat Professional status. They can’t pass the buck so easily but it probably makes no difference to the waiting time for replacement parts. Fiat seem to be trying hard to trash whatever reputation they had with their poor after sales service. I would contact Fiat Camper Assist and see what help and advice they can offer, all new Fiat based motorhomes come with Camper Assist.

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[Pausim]

Big decision, but you are at the mercy of the dealership & Fiat, I am wondering if the dealer was Chelston Motor Homes, if so I would like to think they will do their utmost to help as best they can, the have been very accommodating with us and our Carthago choice in the end.

Chelston are Fiat Professional as well as a dealer so they wouldn’t be able to hide behind “it is not us it is them.”

 

[Phill D]

If not already done, then I would write to both the fiat garage and the selling dealer ( assuming they are not the same) telling them that you are going to visit thier premises at a certain time on a certain day) say a week ahead) and that you will expect a full and detailed discussion of what has happened and thier plan of action and time scale.
As I said earlier I would also be emailing fiat professional UK and insisting they get involved to sort this out.
There is nothing like face to face discussion in these circumstances. But as difficult as it will be a cool head is necessary.
Good luck.

 

[gus-lopez]

The sad part is the dealer only deals with the camper side and they say engine and chassis side as nothing to do with us,and we don’t even PDI it.

You really should point out to them that whatever they say, as the selling dealer they are reponsible for all & everything.The statement that they do not even pdi the vehicle I hope does not come back to bite them? If they don't do it who does?

 

[TinaLes]

Chelston are Fiat Professional as well as a dealer so they wouldn’t be able to hide behind “it is not us it is them.”

Yes indeed Chelston,s are a Carthago agent, also a Fiat Professional service agent. We purchased from them, & I have had all our servicing carried out by them both habitation side and engine, very pleased thus far.
I will also be getting them to do the cam belt, water pump & auxiliary belts done later this year, prices seem competitive.
Its 126 mile, 2.5 hour drive each way for us, but its worth the journey as I do trust them to do a decent job.
Getting Carthago parts is another story these days, with long wait times, but nothing new there.

Not mentioned yet, but If they are the OP's dealer, then that hopefully solves a lot of problems.
Again best of luck to the OP.
LES

 

[meanders]

I called Fiat camper assist when a fix on a motorhome was very slow. They got it sorted within a few days. They will also if asked, tell you when the replacement was ordered.

Nothing to lose from a phone call.

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[jongood]

What kind of motor goes bang after 1 hour! Not one worth having, we re hearing these problems time after time, its not good enough. I would reject the vehicle take the money and buy a decent marque second hand preferably pre 2009 crash, if a Fiat it would have to be a 3 litre and I wouldnt be having any kind of auto except possibly 12 speed Man, even then I would rather have a manual and as little euro figure fiddling electronics as I could find. There's another thread running on here with a newish comfortmatic thats going to cost €9k its ridiculous.

 

[Coolcats]

The sad part is the dealer only deals with the camper side and they say engine and chassis side as nothing to do with us,and we don’t even PDI it.

Not always, travel world are a Fiat professional dealer Southdowns use Adams Morey etc

 

[Coolcats]

We recently picked up our brand new Carthago Chic C-line A class motorhome from the agent, driving it for the first time my wife and I both commented how quiet the engine was and how smooth the 9 speed automatic gearchange was. After about 1 hour of driving on the M5 the engine suddenly made a fairly loud pop, clouds of steam streamed out of the back, I thought at first that I had got a puncture and it was smoke.
We then spent hours waiting for emergency assistance. The motorhome was taken back to the agent and we are told that it needs a new engine. I can't get any information from the agent as to what was the original problem, they have told me various contradictory reasons for the failure. It is now two months since I last saw my motorhome.
My concern now is, is the latest Fiat engine 180hp up to the job? or are they trying to get too much out of this engine?
My previous motorhome was a Swift Kontiki 649 which had a 3 ltr fiat engine and never had a problem with it.
I understand that the 180 hp version of this engine has a stronger steel crank shaft and beefed up pistons.
Has anyone got one of these engines in their motorhome without problems?

Really sorry to hear what has happened, you have choices as others have said.

A mechanical failure can happen to any engine and clearly something has ‘let go’ in general terms Fiat Ducato engines are pretty robust and 180 bhp is nothing to worry about.

One aspect is that it’s a psychological issue in having a new vehicle and a major component fail, you could reject the vehicle or you can accept a new engine and probably never have another issue as most people have found.

From a customer relationship issue I would be inclined to ask for some compensation in terms of a loan MoHo. Maybe this could be done with Fiat/MoHo manufacturer discussion borrowing a demo or rented MoHo until yours is fixed.

 

[Ingwe]

I think that I’d reject the motorhome. Even if they replace the engine, how do you that there weren’t other issues that either caused the problem in the first place or resulted from the engine failing so soon? I appreciate that dealers are short of stock at the moment but in the light of the price paid for what should be a lovely motorhome (way out of my price) I would expect a new van, not repairs. Just my 2p worth. Good luck in any event.

 

[beachwomble]

When you picked it up, did you receive a Fiat PDI report? Any serious dealer who is not also an approved Fiat Professional dealer will have sent the van to one for its PDI. I would not buy from a dealer who couldn’t clearly state that will be the case.

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[Sapper520]

When I had to call out Camper Assist due to an Adblue issue, my van was lifted to our local Fiat Garage. Day or two later, thinking we’d had a major engine issue, I had a call from Italy to check everything was okay. They’d already been in contact with the Fiat Dealership.

Think a call to Camper Assist, explain the issues, and you may get some help.

 

[Speve]

What kind of motor goes bang after 1 hour! Not one worth having, we re hearing these problems time after time, its not good enough. I would reject the vehicle take the money and buy a decent marque second hand preferably pre 2009 crash

I would be interested to see how many of the 40000 + Fiat Ducatos sold in the UK in 2021 have had complete engine failures?

 

[Guigsy]

What kind of motor goes bang after 1 hour! Not one worth having, we re hearing these problems time after time, its not good enough. I would reject the vehicle take the money and buy a decent marque second hand preferably pre 2009 crash, if a Fiat it would have to be a 3 litre and I wouldnt be having any kind of auto except possibly 12 speed Man, even then I would rather have a manual and as little euro figure fiddling electronics as I could find. There's another thread running on here with a newish comfortmatic thats going to cost €9k its ridiculous.

It sounds like an assembly issue at the Fiat factory. Maybe a badly torqued component or a missing clip on a hose. So nothing to do with the quality of the coachbuild. And not really a design or longevity issue on the engine.

 

[SeanF1]

Problem with that is you would have a long wait for a new van and the prices have gone up

Again only my opinion, but I would feel better off buying a good used one with a good history than with a brand new bitsa (effectively) with a blot on its record.

 

[Pausim]

Fiat Camper Services are there to deal with customer problems 00800 34281111.

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[gus-lopez]

I would be interested to see how many of the 40000 + Fiat Ducatos sold in the UK in 2021 have had complete engine failures?

There has been at least 2 others on here alone.

 

[Tio64]

What really shows the complacency of some motorhome dealers is to compare the reaction from the ops dealer to say that of a Mercedes new car dealer.
If you had spent 100k on a new merc and the engine blew on the way home from collection they would be all over you like a rash.

Not really relevant to the thread, but I used to have a garage business, we had many Mercedes customers, the stories we used to get about customer experience at Mercedes dealerships were *horrendous*.
They were utterly shameless, would rob customers blind, and were very adept at getting away with it. I even had w experiences of being in the Merc dealership myself and the language from customers in the service dept was something else, they were clearly very angry.

With regard to the OP, I do think that in the time they've had the vehicle the dealership should be able to tell you what's happened and what your options are. To be still in the dark at this stage is unacceptable.

 

[Phill D]

Not really relevant to the thread, but I used to have a garage business, we had many Mercedes customers, the stories we used to get about customer experience at Mercedes dealerships were *horrendous*.
They were utterly shameless, would rob customers blind, and were very adept at getting away with it. I even had w experiences of being in the Merc dealership myself and the language from customers in the service dept was something else, they were clearly very angry.

With regard to the OP, I do think that in the time they've had the vehicle the dealership should be able to tell you what's happened and what your options are. To be still in the dark at this stage is unacceptable.

I am sure you will be correct.

I used Mercedes as a typical leading dealership simply as an example.
The real point is that as motorhome buyers we are generally treated poorly.

 

[jongood]

It sounds like an assembly issue at the Fiat factory. Maybe a badly torqued component or a missing clip on a hose. So nothing to do with the quality of the coachbuild. And not really a design or longevity issue on the engine.

I dont think even the OP knows whats caused it because the dealers not telling him, so it could be lots of things. We used to refer to engines stress levels - under/over etc so if you taken an engine which was already turbo charged at 130hp and increased the power output by 50% mostly by banging a bigger turbo on it and then adding bigger and trickier turbos and surrounding technology it has to increase stresses.

And you are asking it to propel ever bigger bulkier heavier loads there logically comes a point where something is going to give.

This is not just Fiat by the way they re all at it mostly to satisfy the marketing dept.

 

[Pausim]

When I had a Hymer Mercedes, the Mercedes truck garage charged me for a safety recall repair because of the extra hours involved working on an A Class. They said Mercedes had refused to meet the extra cost involved. I eventually got my money back but had to write to the UK CEO and the DVSA to get it.

In contrast Adams Morey charged me a much reduced hourly rate for my recent Fiat Comformatic repair because it was not covered by the warranty. Fortunately I got a prompt refund from Carthago after one email to Chelston.

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[dunnah01]

Pushing the torque so much higher on the Auto models does seem to be showing some weaknesses. It's got 50 more Nm than our 3.0l at 1500 rpm. The manual model has 20 Nm less