Bought a van at the Dusseldorf show, now got to import it..

[Minxy]

Yes good point, I didn't make that clear in my request. That said it was quite a broad question with reference to a specific date when changes have apparently been made so I'd have thought that a response would have covered any changes that had been implemented?

... we're talking about the DVLA here ... they will only answer the specific question asked ... hopefully correctly!

 

[seakay22]

... we're talking about the DVLA here ... they will only answer the specific question asked ... hopefully correctly!

Indeed. I've emailed them a more specific question.. I'll let you know the response in a few days time ?

 

[596]

Where is “here”?

United Kingdom

 

[596]

This may be helpful:

 

[Minxy]

This may be helpful:

So it is as I suspected and mentioned earlier:

I've just been doing a post on the new MH tax rates thread linked to earlier and from what I can tell new MHs no longer have 'weight' classifications as they are all classed as cars so it won't make any difference, the new levies will still be incurred.

Bummer ...

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[Lenny HB]

... we're talking about the DVLA here ... they will only answer the specific question asked ... hopefully correctly!

In your dreams.

 

[Pausim]

... we're talking about the DVLA here ... they will only answer the specific question asked ... hopefully correctly!

In your dreams.

In my experience when the DVLA is asked a question they don’t like they very carefully answer the question they think you should have asked, not the one you actually asked. I have tried it in respect of driving licenses and in respect of overloading and in respect of carrying goods and in respect of new registrations. Despite very carefully writing the questions they dodged the specific points raised, interpreted my question into one they were more comfortable answering and skilfully left me none the wiser.

 

[Minxy]

In my experience when the DVLA is asked a question they don’t like they very carefully answer the question they think you should have asked, not the one you actually asked. I have tried it in respect of driving licenses and in respect of overloading and in respect of carrying goods and in respect of new registrations. Despite very carefully writing the questions they dodged the specific points raised, interpreted my question into one they were more comfortable answering and skilfully left me none the wiser.

Maybe they're not so daft after all .... ?

 

[seakay22]

Ok, this is my follow up email sent to DVLA (I've got a case number now ?). I think it's pretty concise in its wording? I'll let you know what I get back.


Thank you for the response. I neglected to say that my question was specifically relating to new registered motorhomes after the 1st of September 2019 that are equipped with a 6d euro engine.

As I said in my previous email I cannot find a definitive answer to this question on your website so for clarification can you please confirm what changes have been made to the taxation laws for new vehicles with the above engine since 1st of September 2019 (if any) and whether any changes apply to motorhomes over 3500kg (currently taxed as PHGV). It would also be very useful if you could attach the current VED prices.

Thank you

 

[Lenny HB]

In my experience when the DVLA is asked a question they don’t like they very carefully answer the question they think you should have asked, not the one you actually asked. I have tried it in respect of driving licenses and in respect of overloading and in respect of carrying goods and in respect of new registrations. Despite very carefully writing the questions they dodged the specific points raised, interpreted my question into one they were more comfortable answering and skilfully left me none the wiser.

They have honed that to a fine art.

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[tomlowry07]

New merc hymer arrives at Belgium dealer week 43. And they say they would like to have it for 4 weeks. Will get on phone to them next week and inquire what the 4 weeks is all about?
From what I am reading online, I may be in luck as I have gone 4.5t and its a euro6c engine. Merc told me 6d will be introduced next spring. Just need our learned friend to delay a few things in the UK and i should be quids in. Ahem.

 

[Lenny HB]

Will get on phone to them next week and inquire what the 4 weeks is all about?

Normally after the van arrives it takes a week or two for Hymer to send the paperwork, C of C etc., & the rest is "The Darma of Campirama".

 

[gus-lopez]

So @seakay22 if the emissions is on the CoC it won’t matter what you register it at.

make sure that there is nothing on it.

but have emailed DVLA for clarification as to whether going heavier changes the taxation class, apparently I'll get a response in 3 days..

they usually answer questions you didn't ask.

storage compared to a coach built or A class but does that sound enough?

No.

 

[seakay22]

make sure that there is nothing on it.
they usually answer questions you didn't ask.

No.

Agree with what you say about payload, I've now paid to uprate it to 4000kg

 

[seakay22]

As promised, here is the response recieved from DVLA to my second email enquiring about new taxation legislation. All quite vague but I think what they're saying is that the emmision rated taxation has been in force since 2017 so that hasn't changed. I'm therefore assuming that the only change is that if c02 emmisions are to be included on the motorhome COC then a motorhome will be taxed as such.

That's what I reckon anyway - as others have said, rather than try to provide absolute clarity, it does appear that the emphasis is upon us to interpret things best we can.

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[Pausim]

I read that as confirmation that the distinction between PLG and PHGV ends with the arrival of CO2 figures. They will all be treated the same from now and cost more.

Thanks seakay22 for posting that information.

 

[Speve]

The question being could final converters claim that the emissions are unknown due to vehicle changes in size etc so they would be different to a standard van and that would mean they have to test each and every new model.
Could there be a get out there??

 

[Pausim]

The question being could final converters claim that the emissions are unknown due to vehicle changes in size etc so they would be different to a standard van and that would mean they have to test each and every new model.
Could there be a get out there??

I don’t think so. They will have to give CO2 figures for the new engines no matter how difficult it is. However my understanding is the base vehicle manufacturers are providing tables/formulas for CO2 readings which work on weights and and front cross sectional areas. Presumably they have tested a whole range of variations to get these results.

 

[Deneb]

The question being could final converters claim that the emissions are unknown due to vehicle changes in size etc so they would be different to a standard van and that would mean they have to test each and every new model.
Could there be a get out there??

Not as I have read it. As per my previous posts, the legislation allows converted vehicles with a frontal area within a certain percentage of the original base vehicle figure to assume the base vehicle's CO2 value. For those that don't it may be possible to use a software tool produced by the base vehicle manufacturer and approved within the legislation, to calculate the new figure. Otherwise each model has to be subject to WLTP testing in its own right unless the manufacturer is registered as a low volume manufacturer.

I can't remember the low volume figure offhand. I think it's either 500 or 1000 vehicles annually, but that applies to entire production, so not for example 500 of one particular model and 500 of another.

I'm also not certain that final stage converters can become low volume manufacturers. Last time I looked at the approved list it was only relatively obscure manufacturers of complete single stage production vehicles that were on it. I.e a Fiat Ducato is obviously not a low volume vehicle, but should certain examples become so because they have undergone body conversions? I don't know the answer to that.

 

[Deneb]

I read that as confirmation that the distinction between PLG and PHGV ends with the arrival of CO2 figures. They will all be treated the same from now and cost more.

Thanks seakay22 for posting that information.

I agree with your interpretation.

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[seakay22]

Attached is a screenshot (with Google translation enabled!) of the emission section from a COC recently supplied by the dealer that I am buying my new vehicle from. This is for a Malibu PVC. As can been seen, there are two figures.. 207 in town/159 out of town. Neither are in the highest category meaning the amount payable in year 1 will be either £ 1280 or £ 530 depending upon which number is used - not the worst case £ 2,135 that most are fearing (I accept different vehicles will have different emissions). So it's not quite as bad as it might have been ?

 

[Deneb]

As several of us have previously suggested, why would dealers let facts get in the way of trying to get customers to buy up their old stock before 1st September.

The words "up to" appropriately inserted in their literature would have sufficed!

 

[Pausim]

The words "up to" appropriately inserted in their literature would have sufficed!

I do wonder why any promotion is allowed “up to”. It is a meaningless term intended to mislead. We have buses claiming “up to one every 5 minutes”. Yes it can happen but not very often and in the evenings one an hour would be good going. Sorry off topic rant over.

 

[Deneb]

I do wonder why any promotion is allowed “up to”. It is a meaningless term intended to mislead. We have buses claiming “up to one every 5 minutes”. Yes it can happen but not very often and in the evenings one an hour would be good going. Sorry off topic rant over.

Yes, in this case though, "up to £2,135" for the first year's tax really would have been more truthful!

 

[Stroppy Bird]

Attached is a screenshot (with Google translation enabled!) of the emission section from a COC recently supplied by the dealer that I am buying my new vehicle from. This is for a Malibu PVC. As can been seen, there are two figures.. 207 in town/159 out of town. Neither are in the highest category meaning the amount payable in year 1 will be either £ 1280 or £ 530 depending upon which number is used - not the worst case £ 2,135 that most are fearing (I accept different vehicles will have different emissions). So it's not quite as bad as it might have been ?

I take it you've had it confirmed that it meets the RDE2 standard otherwise it could be £1815 rather than £1280.

Edited To Add - I think if it's euro 6d then it should meet the RDE2 standard

And there's still the £320 luxury vehicle tax for years 2 to 6 in addition to the £145 set rate.

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[seakay22]

I take it you've had it confirmed that it meets the RDE2 standard otherwise it could be £1815 rather than £1280.

Edited To Add - I think if it's euro 6d then it should meet the RDE2 standard

And there's still the £320 luxury vehicle tax for years 2 to 6 in addition to the £145 set rate.

I'm not sure whether it's meets RDE2. In my screenshot of the emissions I omitted the crucial figure of 'combined' which is what I would think is the definitive number, in this case its 177 g/kg which means the first years tax will cost either £ 855 or £ 1280 depending upon the above.

Its worth adding that this certificate is dated 11th of July 2019 so I suspect it's not the 6d engine which may in turn provide a lower emission?

 

[Minxy]

I read that as confirmation that the distinction between PLG and PHGV ends with the arrival of CO2 figures. They will all be treated the same from now and cost more.

Thanks seakay22 for posting that information.

Unfortunately reading the DVLA response above it seems that the conclusion I came to and indicated in my post #30 is correct for all MHs with the 6d engine registered 1st September 2019 onwards.

The ONLY thing you might get away with is the luxury car tax if the MH's list price is below £40,000 and you don't add extras to take it over that figure when you pay for it, hardly likely though.

 

[Minxy]

I'm not sure whether it's meets RDE2. In my screenshot of the emissions I omitted the crucial figure of 'combined' which is what I would think is the definitive number, in this case its 177 g/kg which means the first years tax will cost either £ 855 or £ 1280 depending upon the above.

Its worth adding that this certificate is dated 11th of July 2019 so I suspect it's not the 6d engine which may in turn provide a lower emission?

If its not the 6d engine you may not be hit with the new charges at all but instead at the old rate for LGV or HGV ... fingers crossed!

 

[seakay22]

If its not the 6d engine you may not be hit with the new charges at all but instead at the old rate for LGV or HGV ... fingers crossed!

Just to clarify, the certificate I quoted (screenshot) was for a van previously supplied by the German dealer I'm buying from. They kindly forwarded it to me solely to assist with my quest for information ?

The van I'll be collecting around next February will come with the 6d engine I'm sure, I was just wondering/hoping that the emissions for the new engine may be even lower than the current engine meaning it may drop a band lower, time will tell.

 

[Minxy]

Just to clarify, the certificate I quoted (screenshot) was for a van previously supplied by the German dealer I'm buying from. They kindly forwarded it to me solely to assist with my quest for information ?

The van I'll be collecting around next February will come with the 6d engine I'm sure, I was just wondering/hoping that the emissions for the new engine may be even lower than the current engine meaning it may drop a band lower, time will tell.

Ah, I thought that was your new MH ... looks like you're gonna have to raid the piggy bank a bit more.

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