Bought a van at the Dusseldorf show, now got to import it..

[Robert Clark]

Mainly because there's no restrictions when driving through villages when abroad, vignette as opposed to GoBox in Austria plus I don't need the extra capacity.

Village restrictions in France are 3.5 tons not over 3.5
Better to have extra capacity than be caught being over weight

 

[seakay22]

Village restrictions in France are 3.5 tons not over 3.5
Better to have extra capacity than be caught being over weight

But if the vehicle is rated at 4 tonne then you are prohibited from entering zones showing 3.5 tonne?

 

[Robert Clark]

But if the vehicle is rated at 4 tonne then you are prohibited from entering zones showing 3.5 tonne?

Only if that zone applies to all vehicles as apposed to trucks only
Never found it a problem in our 4.2 ton van

 

[seakay22]

Only if that zone applies to all vehicles as apposed to trucks only
Never found it a problem in our 4.2 ton van

Well yes, but the vast majority of restrictions that I've encountered are generic, not truck specific. Of course one can simply ignore the restriction but I'd rather not do that hence my preference for staying at 3.5 tonne.

 

[pelican]

I think after Brexit we should only buy UK built vehicles

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[Minxy]

I think after Brexit we should only buy UK built vehicles

After Brexit we might ONLY be able to buy UK built vehicles ... now let me think, how many 'pure' UK built vehicles are there .....

 

[Stroppy Bird]

I've just been doing a post on the new MH tax rates thread linked to earlier and from what I can tell new MHs no longer have 'weight' classifications as they are all classed as cars so it won't make any difference, the new levies will still be incurred.

Having had another look, I think that you may well be right with that assessment.

And this page from Brownhills site which has an NCC bulletin attached also states that even if over 3500kg, if the emissions figure is included, it will be taxed in line with cars.

Beat the Vehicle Registration and Taxation Increase

From the 1st of September the government is changing the way Vehicle Excise Duty (Road Fund Licence) is levied on 2020 model year motorhomes which will all include new Euro 6D/2 engines. The initial registration cost will increase by £1,870. To beat ...

www.brownhills.co.uk

So seakay22 if the emissions is on the CoC it won’t matter what you register it at.

 

[Rob Turner]

I've just been doing a post on the new MH tax rates thread linked to earlier and from what I can tell new MHs no longer have 'weight' classifications as they are all classed as cars so it won't make any difference, the new levies will still be incurred.

Glad I’ve just imported my new one. Hopefully in 3 years or so when I’ll be changing it then things might have settled down.

 

[seakay22]

Having had another look, I think that you may well be right with that assessment.

And this page from Brownhills site which has an NCC bulletin attached also states that even if over 3500kg, if the emissions figure is included, it will be taxed in line with cars.

Beat the Vehicle Registration and Taxation Increase

From the 1st of September the government is changing the way Vehicle Excise Duty (Road Fund Licence) is levied on 2020 model year motorhomes which will all include new Euro 6D/2 engines. The initial registration cost will increase by £1,870. To beat ...

www.brownhills.co.uk

So seakay22 if the emissions is on the CoC it won’t matter what you register it at.

What a farce. Over two grand to tax a vehicle that on average covers approximately 5,000 miles a year (industry average), then almost £ 500 a year thereafter. I can't quite get my head around those figures.

 

[Deneb]

I've just been doing a post on the new MH tax rates thread linked to earlier and from what I can tell new MHs no longer have 'weight' classifications as they are all classed as cars so it won't make any difference, the new levies will still be incurred.

They are all category M1 special purpose vehicles which means that they are classed as passenger vehicles, but in UK law a vehicle can only be a motor car if it does not exceed 3500 kgs MPW. Heavier vehicles which meet the legal definition of a motor car in all other respects are classed as Heavy Motor Cars.

The emissions related tax classes such as Diesel Car and Petrol Car which carry the emissions related levy and luxury vehicle tax element are only applicable to Motor Cars ( not exceeding 3500kgs MPW).

So according to the strict interpretation of the tax classes a MH exceeding 3500kg MPW cannot be taxed as a diesel car and the surcharges would not apply.

But, non Euro 6d MHs are currently, and have for the last 18 or so years been taxed in the PLG and PHGV tax classes, which are defined as only applying to vehicles registered before March 2001.

So there is a precedent for slotting MHs into tax classes which do not by the legal definition apply to them.

The question is whether DVLA and HM Treasury have or will make a similar policy decision to place all Euro 6D M1SP vehicles in the Petrol or Diesel Car tax classes irrespective of their MPW.

It would seem to be a logical move to prevent up-plating (and possibly subsequent down-plating) to avoid the additional tax charges, but have they considered that? Who knows, but I suspect we will find out before too long.

Re importation after Brexit. I would suspect that current arrangements for allocating VAT will no longer be applicable or workable if we are no longer an EU member state, although there could be a transitional arrangement if we leave with a deal But also as no longer members of the EU trade agreement there will quite likely be import duties to be paid as well.

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[Tigertom]

We paid the vat to uk gov. by bank transfer whilst stood in the moho dealers office in Germany.
That way they were assured it had been paid. Once we had returned to the uk we received a receipt from HM gov. which we forwarded to the dealer who presented it to his tax office.
Other methods are available .?

 

[tacr2man]

The problem that arises with classifying all motorcaravans as "motor car" regardless of weight is it comes into conflict with driving licences ! The new emissions testing regime does not apply to HGV IIRC

 

[Lenny HB]

Wonder how many people replying to this thread have actually imported a new motorhome from Germany to UK?

That's me out then, I've only imported from Belgium and only 3 new Motorhomes. ?

 

[Lenny HB]

Anyway, the DVLA are actually pretty good, just lookup, ask and you'll be fine. I think there's an option to pay VAT in either country, so if you pay it in germany I think (not 100% sure) you just need to prove it to the UK customs upon import.

Incorrect Vehicles are treated differently to other goods, VAT is payable in the country of registration.

 

[Pausim]

But also as no longer members of the EU trade agreement there will quite likely be import duties to be paid as well.

Earlier in the year the Government published a proposed tariff of 10.6% on imported finished vehicles. I have no idea if this is still part of the proposals.

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[Lenny HB]

Earlier in the year the Government published a proposed tariff of 10.6% on imported finished vehicles. I have no idea if this is still part of the proposals.

Irrelevant as all imported vehicles bought from UK dealers will have the same tax applied.

 

[GPW]

Incorrect Vehicles are treated differently to other goods, VAT is payable in the country of registration.

I guess it would be too easy if there was one consistent set of rules . Lordy lordy.

 

[Deneb]

Irrelevant as all imported vehicles bought from UK dealers will have the same tax applied.

Not irrelevant if the OP was relying on the current free movement of goods within the EU and had not factored the introduction of import duty into his purchase price surely?

It could make a substantial difference to the cost, but I agree it won't matter whether a foreign produced vehicle is bought here or abroad when it happens.

 

[Speve]

We paid the vat to uk gov. by bank transfer whilst stood in the moho dealers office in Germany.
That way they were assured it had been paid. Once we had returned to the uk we received a receipt from HM gov. which we forwarded to the dealer who presented it to his tax office.
Other methods are available .?

So had you filled out all of your import paperwork prior to purchasing? as you would have needed to know how much UK VAT you had to pay.
Or did the dealer arrange all of the export/import for you? Which would be a different matter.

 

[Pausim]

Irrelevant as all imported vehicles bought from UK dealers will have the same tax applied.

I wasn’t suggesting it wouldn’t apply to all imported vehicles. I guess 10.6% on a German or Belgium price might well be less than on a UK one. The possibility of a tariff was something I was aware of when I ordered a new Carthago last December. I was somewhat pleased that I didn’t get caught.

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[Robert Clark]

Maybe things will have changed by the time you actually import yours, though. I hope Brexit doesn't make it any more difficult or expensive for you.

Thats what would worry me

 

[seakay22]

I have

Not irrelevant if the OP was relying on the current free movement of goods within the EU and had not factored the introduction of import duty into his purchase price surely?

It could make a substantial difference to the cost, but I agree it won't matter whether a foreign produced vehicle is bought here or abroad when it happens.

My understanding is that if we leave with a deal then there is a transitional period which will means I won't pay import tax. If we leave without a deal then there's a strong possibility I will. At 10 percent (or thereabouts of the purchase price) and the prospect of paying over £ 2,000 for the first year's road tax potentially that's a £ 7,500 penalty. Whilst I think we can last until February 2020 without a no deal I have to say that the excitement I felt a few days ago is somewhat diminished. I'd still like to know if raising the gross vehicle weight to 4 tonnes removes it from the 'car' category but having searched extensively earlier there doesn't seem to be a concise answer to this question.

Hardly encouraging.

 

[Speve]

I’m pretty sure if it’s over 3500 kg you will avoid the extra tax as we first registered ours in June 2018 and have PHGV without any other extras. If you read gov.uk excerpt below it’s only some Motorhomes. And you could always down rate at a later date.

Cars and some motorhomes registered on or after 1 April 2017
You’ll pay a rate based on a vehicle’s CO2 emissions the first time it’s registered. This applies to:

• cars
• some motorhomes

Your motorhome’s included if both the following apply:

• it’s in the M1SP category - check with your dealer if you’re not sure
• its CO2 emissions are included on the ‘type approval certificate’ (this might be called a ‘certificate of conformity’ or ‘individual vehicle approval’)

If you have a different kind of motorhome, you pay tax in a different way.

 

[seakay22]

I’m pretty sure if it’s over 3500 kg you will avoid the extra tax as we first registered ours in June 2018 and have PHGV without any other extras. If you read gov.uk excerpt below it’s only some Motorhomes. And you could always down rate at a later date.

Cars and some motorhomes registered on or after 1 April 2017
You’ll pay a rate based on a vehicle’s CO2 emissions the first time it’s registered. This applies to:

• cars
• some motorhomes

Your motorhome’s included if both the following apply:

• it’s in the M1SP category - check with your dealer if you’re not sure
• its CO2 emissions are included on the ‘type approval certificate’ (this might be called a ‘certificate of conformity’ or ‘individual vehicle approval’)

If you have a different kind of motorhome, you pay tax in a different way.

Thanks for that but my (limited) understanding is that the new legislation applies only to the new Euro 6d engines (which this is) and came into force only last week. I therefore think that information may have been superceded?

 

[Pausim]

it’s only some Motorhomes.

When that was written “the only some motorhomes” was limited to car/van production line motorhomes such as the VW ones because they were the only ones with CO2 figures. All that is now changing.

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[sallylillian]

I guess it would be too easy if there was one consistent set of rules . Lordy lordy.

There is. Cross border tax rules are clear and the exclusion of "new means of transport" ie Planes, boats and vehicles from zero rating for export has been in place for 20 years as before that there were multiple cross border leasing schemes to avoid VAT in any EU country which were rife?. So all companies selling new vehicles are stringently audited and if they are unable to prove tax collected then they become liable. Therefore it will need great trust on their part to give you zero rating without proof of tax paid in your country.

 

[seakay22]

Well I've spent the last 2 hours on government websites trying to establish if a new motorhome over 3.5 tonne will be classed as a CAR or a PRIVATE HEAVY GOODS VEHICLE for taxation purposes and there is no answer to this, at least none I can find. As has been mentioned above, a car cannot have GVW over 3.5 tonne so unless they've created a distinct new class for motorhomes *regardless of weight* the implication is that heavier vehicles must surely remain a PHGV and therefore will not incur emmision based charges.

Of course I may well be completely wrong!!

 

[Deneb]

Well I've spent the last 2 hours on government websites trying to establish if a new motorhome over 3.5 tonne will be classed as a CAR or a PRIVATE HEAVY GOODS VEHICLE for taxation purposes and there is no answer to this, at least none I can find. As has been mentioned above, a car cannot have GVW over 3.5 tonne so unless they've created a distinct new class for motorhomes *regardless of weight* the implication is that heavier vehicles must surely remain a PHGV and therefore will not incur emmision based charges.

Of course I may well be completely wrong!!

No, you're right as far as the legislation goes, but:

Private or Light Goods Vehicle and Private Heavy Goods Vehicle tax classes (PLG and PHGV) are only for vehicles fist registered before 1st March 2001. Yet M1SP multi-stage vehicles with no emissions entered on their final stage CoC and first registered after that date have been taxed in those classes for the last 18 years.

So the question is what will they do with the new Euro 6d engine vehicles? As motorhomes, they are not goods vehicles so they can't be taxed in the current goods vehicle tax classes. Will they be taxed as PHGV as has happened until now, or will they slot them into the Diesel Car class anyway?

I don't think that is a question that can be answered with any certainty until some of those MHs have been registered and owners confirm what is what.

In fact, has anyone registered a new Euro 6d "light" MH since 1st September, and can confirm the tax class it has been allocated to, bearing in mind that an HM Treasury document relating to WLTP states that the WLTP emissions figures should not be used for taxation purposes until at least April next year?

 

[Wombles]

seakay22 we imported our van conversion last year from Germany so will PM to see if sharing our experience is any help to you though can see from the above comments that things may be changing soon...

 

[seakay22]

No, you're right as far as the legislation goes, but:

Private or Light Goods Vehicle and Private Heavy Goods Vehicle tax classes (PLG and PHGV) are only for vehicles fist registered before 1st March 2001. Yet M1SP multi-stage vehicles with no emissions entered on their final stage CoC and first registered after that date have been taxed in those classes for the last 18 years.

So the question is what will they do with the new Euro 6d engine vehicles? As motorhomes, they are not goods vehicles so they can't be taxed in the current goods vehicle tax classes. Will they be taxed as PHGV as has happened until now, or will they slot them into the Diesel Car class anyway?

I don't think that is a question that can be answered with any certainty until some of those MHs have been registered and owners confirm what is what.

In fact, has anyone registered a new Euro 6d "light" MH since 1st September, and can confirm the tax class it has been allocated to, bearing in mind that an HM Treasury document relating to WLTP states that the WLTP emissions figures should not be used for taxation purposes until at least April next year?

Thing is, I've ordered it at 3500kg and if I want to uprate to 4000kg I will need to tell them over the next week or so!

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