Best Oil

[LancashireLad]

I’m sure the oil question has been asked many times here but can I ask what is the most suitable engine oil for a 19 year old Peugeot Boxer Engine? Thanks

 

[Daffy64]

Fee free to rain on any parade you choose, and disagree with whoever you like. But if you are going to make claims then cite evidence to support what you say.

There is zero evidence that any modern oil of the correct grade will ‘damage’ any older engine, especially engines of the relatively modern ages and designs as referenced by the OP. Great care is taken to ensure this is not possible. If you actually do research on backward compatibility, all you will come up with is some very old studies relating to ester based oils and very old seal materials, it relates only to pre 1960s engine designs.

https://wayfarerinsurancegroup.com/blog/can-you-use-synthetic-oil-in-your-classic-car/#:~:text=Today's%20synthetics%20are%20perfectly%20safe,before%20oxidizing%20and%20losing%20efficacy.

Yes API is the American Pertoleum Institute. They have been the foremost oil grading and certification agency for many decades.

let’s agree to differ,

Fee free to rain on any parade you choose, and disagree with whoever you like. But if you are going to make claims then cite evidence to support what you say.

There is zero evidence that any modern oil of the correct grade will ‘damage’ any older engine, especially engines of the relatively modern ages and designs as referenced by the OP. Great care is taken to ensure this is not possible. If you actually do research on backward compatibility, all you will come up with is some very old studies relating to ester based oils and very old seal materials, it relates only to pre 1960s engine designs.

https://wayfarerinsurancegroup.com/blog/can-you-use-synthetic-oil-in-your-classic-car/#:~:text=Today's%20synthetics%20are%20perfectly%20safe,before%20oxidizing%20and%20losing%20efficacy.

Yes API is the American Pertoleum Institute. They have been the foremost oil grading and certification agency for many decades.

let’s agree to differ then, I don’t need to cite evidence to have an opinion and not everything you read on the internet is correct.

My opinion is based on real world professional experience and can be used or discarded.

Synthetic oils are not better for all applications and grades indicate the properties of an oil - example, put a high detergent oil into an old engine that wasn’t designed for it and listen to it rattle after a few miles.

API is the standard and I have had involvement with them, however European manufacturers use the ACEA standards in design, it’s not so different from saying a whitworth spanner would do the job.

 

[Northernraider]

Not true - the fuel comes from the same tank in the refinery, the different outlets have their own blend of additives which are added at the terminal when the tanker is being filled - the driver has a key or a code which defines which additive pack is added.

Esso fuel is different to shell fuel etc etc.

Modern diesel without additives would not be good for the moving parts in your fuel systems as diesel ceased to be self lubricating when the majority of the sulphur was removed - the additive packs contain a lubricity enhancer amongst other things how much and how good depends on who’s fuel, as they say you gets what you pays for.

 

[Northernraider]

Not true - the fuel comes from the same tank in the refinery, the different outlets have their own blend of additives which are added at the terminal when the tanker is being filled - the driver has a key or a code which defines which additive pack is added.

Esso fuel is different to shell fuel etc etc.

Modern diesel without additives would not be good for the moving parts in your fuel systems as diesel ceased to be self lubricating when the majority of the sulphur was removed - the additive packs contain a lubricity enhancer amongst other things how much and how good depends on who’s fuel, as they say you gets what you pays for.

Having a close friend who's worked in Grangemouth oil refinery since we left school excuse me if I say that's incorrect. The stations may call it their own name but its the same fuel and always has been

 

[Daffy64]

Having a close friend who's worked in Grangemouth oil refinery since we left school excuse me if I say that's incorrect. The stations may call it their own name but its the same fuel and always has been

My 2 sons work in Fawley refinery and would probably say the same but they’re not close enough to that part of the process.

I do agree that the base fuel is the same but that wouldn’t meet the std for sale in Europe (EN590 for diesel), the additive pack is added at the point of loading the tanker at the terminal.

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[dawsey]

The difference between supermarket fuel and any other fuel


Zero ...no difference

They come from the same tanks in the same refinery. No petrol station adds anything to their fuel at the station and there is not separate tanks at refineries for every different brand of station. In Scotland for example all fuel comes from Grangemouth refinery.


Anything else is a myth

I think I did clarify that…

 

[Northernraider]

My 2 sons work in Fawley refinery and would probably say the same but they’re not close enough to that part of the process.

I do agree that the base fuel is the same but that wouldn’t meet the std for sale in Europe (EN590 for diesel), the additive pack is added at the point of loading the tanker at the terminal.

They would say the same because its true. And at the minute essonne, shell, BP and gulf stations around here are the same price or in 2 cases cheaper than asda and tesco for diesel. So if your theory of "you get what you pay for" was true then the supermarket fuel would be better in your eyes lol.

It's a gimmick, there's standard diesel and there's the alleged better performance diesel that's it.

I've never used the latter always using the cheapest

 

[Daffy64]

They would say the same because its true. And at the minute essonne, shell, BP and gulf stations around here are the same price or in 2 cases cheaper than asda and tesco for diesel. So if your theory of "you get what you pay for" was true then the supermarket fuel would be better in your eyes lol.

It's a gimmick, there's standard diesel and there's the alleged better performance diesel that's it.

I've never used the latter always using the cheapest

And you make this opinion based on the price of fuel - let’s just agree to differ shall we?

 

[Northernraider]

And you make this opinion based on the price of fuel - let’s just agree to differ shall we?

No I told you where my opinion came from . First hand information from a high up Grangemouth refinery employee.


My point about fuel cost that went over your head was in response to your claim if you paid more for fuel that made it somehow better.

If " let's agree to disagree " means sorry I accept I said something dumb then OK I forgive you.

 

[Daffy64]

No I told you where my opinion came from . First hand information from a high up Grangemouth refinery employee.


My point about fuel cost that went over your head was in response to your claim if you paid more for fuel that made it somehow better.

If " let's agree to disagree " means sorry I accept I said something dumb then OK I forgive you.

No it doesn’t mean I said something dumb, it means I can’t be bothered to argue with someone spouting complete twaddle on the internet, as they say you can’t educate pork.

The price reductions at the fuel brands was political as they were accused of profiteering, nothing to do with quality.

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[bobnick]

In a short answer

Yes

If you can raise the car enough to get to the sump plug.

Something to catch the old oil with.

Tools required.
Socket set or correct socket size or Allen key socket.

Something to remove under tray, probably cross head screwdriver.

Gloves to keep hands clean.

Possibly filter spanner, not sure how filter is held on that car.

Thanks for that. I'm going to have a go next time Billy needs a oil change. Got or will get what i don't have.
last oil and filter change only was £170...................i thought that's high for what they did whilst i waited 2 hours.

 

[L' Hobo]

Thanks for that. I'm going to have a go next time Billy needs a oil change. Got or will get what i don't have.
last oil and filter change only was £170...................i thought that's high for what they did whilst i waited 2 hours.

Do the air filter at the same time, that's usually the easiest bit and best checked incase some little beasty has ideas of making a home in it.
It may look clean, but often not.
Good Luck

 

[Northernraider]

No it doesn’t mean I said something dumb, it means I can’t be bothered to argue with someone spouting complete twaddle on the internet, as they say you can’t educate pork.

The price reductions at the fuel brands was political as they were accused of profiteering, nothing to do with quality.

you're hilarious
The only person spouting twaddle is yourself.

I can post up your quotes if you like.

But I'm sure anyone capable of reading the thread back won't need me to.

 

[Northernraider]

Thanks for that. I'm going to have a go next time Billy needs a oil change. Got or will get what i don't have.
last oil and filter change only was £170...................i thought that's high for what they did whilst i waited 2 hours.

Oil change is very easy and with a van you don't even need to jack it up.

Price of oil , filter and air filter approx £90 and 30-45 minutes to do the job.

I did my last one in a carpark in torremolinos.

 

[bobnick]

Oil change is very easy and with a van you don't even need to jack it up.

Price of oil , filter and air filter approx £90 and 30-45 minutes to do the job.

I did my last one in a carpark in torremolinos.

I used to do it many many years ago on several of the older cars i had.

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[Hettie's Crew]

One thing I’ve noticed on ours is that when it’s sat on level ground it’s tipped slightly forward, giving a false reading on the dipstick it being right at the front of the sump pan it indicates more than is in, also not allowing a complete drain of the old oil.
I‘m able to get mine levelled easily on the HPC jacks but I suspect some motorhomes would be better off with the front up a bit on levellers.

 

[Silver-Fox]

My first car(petrol) was a real oil-burner. I used to buy recycled oil. Did a trip up to London from Portsmouth. On the return, I stopped near Kingston - "Four gallons(19L) of petrol and four pints of oil, please". "Do you want to put the oil in your boot?" "No, the engine". "What, all of it?" "Yep". 25 miles to the pint.

I had an old Vauxhall Firenza with the 2.3 slant motor in it.

Never had to do an oil change it used to escape from the sump similar to yours

 

[Silver-Fox]

One thing I’ve noticed on ours is that when it’s sat on level ground it’s tipped slightly forward, giving a false reading on the dipstick it being right at the front of the sump pan it indicates more than is in, also not allowing a complete drain of the old oil.
I‘m able to get mine levelled easily on the HPC jacks but I suspect some motorhomes would be better off with the front up a bit on levellers.

But is it designed that way to get the correct reading on the dipstick

 

[The Wino]

A lot of own brand stuff is also the Same as the named brand. Supermarkets don't have their own factories either.

When I worked as a courier driver I had a few customers like this

Buttons biscuits for example. They used to give us boxes of biscuits that failed quality control , there would be packets amongst them with ,sainsbury. Asda, spar, tesco etc etc all the same biscuits only the name on the packet was changed.

Miller sweets was another one.


But some own brands are also shit ...research required

We always try a single pack first. Most of our shopping is at Aldi I'd say 95% of the food in our cupboards is fresh or unbranded. We also find some own brand better than branded

 

[dawsey]

My last post on this one, as ever, strong opinions expressed though I suspect nobody here is an oil or fuel process chemist…

The OP asked a question, what is the best oil for his engine. The answer I gave was that it’s a synthetic oil. Synthetic oils are much superior to mineral oils, I did not think that was even in debate, but here we are. Note that only synthetic oils are specified by all ultra high performance vehicle/engine manufacturers, there is a reason for that.

That they are a better ‘product’ is the reason fully synthetic oils are always more expensive than the much more common semis. They can be extortionately priced when branded with well known labels, and only recommended by a given OEM for commercial reasons, far less so when not.

I was clear that no van engine really needs a full semi. As long as the oil change interval is respected, a decent semi in a van engine will be absolutely fine. But that wasn’t what the OP asked. He asked what is the best oil for his van. The advantage a full synthetic will offer is that is will last longer, because it is a higher quality product.

Sure don’t believe all you see on the internet, (about 90-98% of stuff on the net is not not valid advice in my experience, including much of the ‘advice’ offered in this very forum…), but if you don’t by now know how to home in on good advice and information produced and published by reputed technical organisations it could be an issue.

Like all else in life, the oil for your engine is a choice, just like what you have for breakfast.

I’m an older chap now, but Ihave had for quite a while bits of paper and lots of letters before and after my name and memberships of learned societies etc, worked in diesel engine FIE design for many years so I do actually know a little bit about chemistry, tribology and metallurgy.

Northern raider has his own style but he has a point about fuels - standard fuels of any type are going to be the same or similar minimum spec as defined by law. Any commercial organisation selling fuel at significantly better than the legal minimum is going to make less money and oil companies don’t like that. Therefore the point about there being little if no difference between supermarket and branded fuels is a valid one.

The premium fuels are a slightly different matter. These are produced to a different, higher, specification and are simply a better product. I contributed to a thread a few months back on this and explained in detail what the differences were that justify the difference in price. Does an engine need a premium fuel? No. Will it give more mpg? well, it depends. Petrol, yes it is possible if the engine has been designed to take advantage (knock sensors, spark retard etc). Diesel, no. Will it likely last longer and or drive better with a better fuel? all else equal, it might, there are more detergents, anti oxidants, less ethanol etc.

You generally get what you pay for, as is the case with so much in life. And as with all else, you have a choice….

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[Daffy64]

My last post on this one, as ever, strong opinions expressed though I suspect nobody here is an oil or fuel process chemist…

The OP asked a question, what is the best oil for his engine. The answer I gave was that it’s a synthetic oil. Synthetic oils are much superior to mineral oils, I did not think that was even in debate, but here we are. Note that only synthetic oils are specified by all ultra high performance vehicle/engine manufacturers, there is a reason for that.

That they are a better ‘product’ is the reason fully synthetic oils are always more expensive than the much more common semis. They can be extortionately priced when branded with well known labels, and only recommended by a given OEM for commercial reasons, far less so when not.

I was clear that no van engine really needs a full semi. As long as the oil change interval is respected, a decent semi in a van engine will be absolutely fine. But that wasn’t what the OP asked. He asked what is the best oil for his van. The advantage a full synthetic will offer is that is will last longer, because it is a higher quality product.

Sure don’t believe all you see on the internet, (about 90-98% of stuff on the net is not not valid advice in my experience, including much of the ‘advice’ offered in this very forum…), but if you don’t by now know how to home in on good advice and information produced and published by reputed technical organisations it could be an issue.

Like all else in life, the oil for your engine is a choice, just like what you have for breakfast.

I’m an older chap now, but Ihave had for quite a while bits of paper and lots of letters before and after my name and memberships of learned societies etc, worked in diesel engine FIE design for many years so I do actually know a little bit about chemistry, tribology and metallurgy.

Northern raider has his own style but he has a point about fuels - standard fuels of any type are going to be the same or similar minimum spec as defined by law. Any commercial organisation selling fuel at significantly better than the legal minimum is going to make less money and oil companies don’t like that. Therefore the point about there being little if no difference between supermarket and branded fuels is a valid one.

The premium fuels are a slightly different matter. These are produced to a different, higher, specification and are simply a better product. I contributed to a thread a few months back on this and explained in detail what the differences were that justify the difference in price. Does an engine need a premium fuel? No. Will it give more mpg? well, it depends. Petrol, yes it is possible if the engine has been designed to take advantage (knock sensors, spark retard etc). Diesel, no. Will it likely last longer and or drive better with a better fuel? all else equal, it might, there are more detergents, anti oxidants, less ethanol etc.

You generally get what you pay for, as is the case with so much in life. And as with all else, you have a choice….

As already said there are differing opinions here, and hate the Willy waving but as you started it I am in the engine industry, in that I was the UK lead for one of Europe’s largest diesel engine manufacturers for 20+ years and have worked closely with oil manufacturers and the fuel supply industry as these are both consumable products that have a huge bearing on engine life.

For clarity, I know that whilst the fuel that comes out of the refinery is to a spec, the product loaded into a road tanker for delivery is specific to the customers spec, they are different.

Similarly oils can be similar but different enough to work well or cause issues over time.

I currently work as a consultant to many large companies carrying out forensic work to understand engine failures and also assist insurance companies/legal practices in causation.

Anyway, that’s enough of me, I’ll leave the flat earth society to stroke each others ego’s.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

But is it designed that way to get the correct reading on the dipstick

Well, I’m assuming it was designed with the sump pan base level in order to drain. I went under with a spirit level and when the van was levelled on the HPC jacks the base of the sump pan was spot on level. It made about 5mm difference on the dipstick, reading high when on the ground.
Ours has an Alko rear end with air assistance and the front is lower when parked on level ground.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Well, I’m assuming it was designed with the sump pan base level in order to drain. I went under with a spirit level and when the van was levelled on the HPC jacks the base of the sump pan was spot on level. It made about 5mm difference on the dipstick, reading high when on the ground.
Ours has an Alko rear end with air assistance and the front is lower when parked on level ground.

I wasn’t trying to be funny about it.

I was just thinking that when the engine was designed and put into the chassis they would have specified a certain angle for how the engine sat.

Given everything else very often vehicles sit slightly nose down so I’m thinking all four wheels on level ground gives the correct reading on the dip stick.
As opposed to the chassis being levelled up on the jacks making the sump level.

I’ve no idea what is the correct way, I just know I was told to check engine oil when on level ground

 

[Hettie's Crew]

I wasn’t trying to be funny about it.

I was just thinking that when the engine was designed and put into the chassis they would have specified a certain angle for how the engine sat.

Given everything else very often vehicles sit slightly nose down so I’m thinking all four wheels on level ground gives the correct reading on the dip stick.
As opposed to the chassis being levelled up on the jacks making the sump level.

I’ve no idea what is the correct way, I just know I was told to check engine oil when on level ground

I didn’t think in the slightest you were being funny about it. Sense would say when it’s sat on level ground all should be right regarding checking the oil, but, when it’s sat on level ground the sump base is sloping forwards keeping almost half a litre of oil in at drainage. Maybe it’s just a quirk of design, maybe it doesn’t matter but when I change the engine oil I expect to get pretty much all of it out and have an accurate reading on the dipstick.
When on level 1 on the jacks it comes up a few inches taking the weight off the front wheels making the chassis level and the sump.

 

[Daffy64]

I wasn’t trying to be funny about it.

I was just thinking that when the engine was designed and put into the chassis they would have specified a certain angle for how the engine sat.

Given everything else very often vehicles sit slightly nose down so I’m thinking all four wheels on level ground gives the correct reading on the dip stick.
As opposed to the chassis being levelled up on the jacks making the sump level.

I’ve no idea what is the correct way, I just know I was told to check engine oil when on level ground

Normally 1.5 degrees lower at the rear of the engine (the flywheel end) obviously in a transverse application the rear of the engine isn’t always toward the rear of the vehicle.

As a point of interest for those that might be interested, the design assumes only around 90% of the oil is replaced at an oil and filter change, the remainder sits in galleries and nooks and crannies - this is why the oil is always dirty soon after a change.

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[TheBig1]

Modern diesel engines are much much tighter on tollerances than the older engines. Therefore the oil use is critical, not only in viscosity but also in the additives. Dinosaur juice works fine in older engines, but modern synthetics are designed in the laboratory to protect and lubricate

With a 19 year old low mileage engine, you need to keep on top of oil changes though as old oil turns acidic and can effect the lubricated surfaces. Always stick to the right type and the better quality oils. Supermarket own brand oils are fine in an old banger on it's last legs, but not in a motorhome that you want to keep for years running smoothly

 

[Just smiffy]

On the subject of lubrication, in the early 80’s when I dabbled in citron mechanics the boss said it’s near impossible to blow an engine on a citron GS.
We had a scrap one out the back so me and another mechanic dragged it out and got the engine running sweet, drained all the oil out took oil filter off and flushed it through with water.. lucky it had a few gallons of petrol in it and we started it and put a plank wedging down the accelerator on full throttle… it ran out of petrol 2hrs later with no rattles or moans….

 

[LancashireLad]

Modern diesel engines are much much tighter on tollerances than the older engines. Therefore the oil use is critical, not only in viscosity but also in the additives. Dinosaur juice works fine in older engines, but modern synthetics are designed in the laboratory to protect and lubricate

With a 19 year old low mileage engine, you need to keep on top of oil changes though as old oil turns acidic and can effect the lubricated surfaces. Always stick to the right type and the better quality oils. Supermarket own brand oils are fine in an old banger on it's last legs, but not in a motorhome that you want to keep for years running smoothly

Sounds like good advice, I was in Tesco looking at their oil today - I resisted!

 

[LancashireLad]

Modern diesel engines are much much tighter on tollerances than the older engines. Therefore the oil use is critical, not only in viscosity but also in the additives. Dinosaur juice works fine in older engines, but modern synthetics are designed in the laboratory to protect and lubricate

With a 19 year old low mileage engine, you need to keep on top of oil changes though as old oil turns acidic and can effect the lubricated surfaces. Always stick to the right type and the better quality oils. Supermarket own brand oils are fine in an old banger on it's last legs, but not in a motorhome that you want to keep for years running smoothly

Good advice, I nearly bought some Tesco oil today - but didn’t

 

[Silver-Fox]

I didn’t think in the slightest you were being funny about it. Sense would say when it’s sat on level ground all should be right regarding checking the oil, but, when it’s sat on level ground the sump base is sloping forwards keeping almost half a litre of oil in at drainage. Maybe it’s just a quirk of design, maybe it doesn’t matter but when I change the engine oil I expect to get pretty much all of it out and have an accurate reading on the dipstick.
When on level 1 on the jacks it comes up a few inches taking the weight off the front wheels making the chassis level and the sump.

We need the designer of the vehicle to have some input on this

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[Silver-Fox]

Normally 1.5 degrees lower at the rear of the engine (the flywheel end) obviously in a transverse application the rear of the engine isn’t always toward the rear of the vehicle.

As a point of interest for those that might be interested, the design assumes only around 90% of the oil is replaced at an oil and filter change, the remainder sits in galleries and nooks and crannies - this is why the oil is always dirty soon after a change.

I realised some was held in the engine but didn’t know it was that much held back