Banning pub stops??

[Minxy]

But surely a motorhome/campervan is "any motor vehicle so designed or adapted" "for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another"?

Great minds think alike!

 

[Ingwe]

But surely a motorhome/campervan is "any motor vehicle so designed or adapted" "for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another"?

Don’t call me Shirley.

I’m not being dogmatic about this but it is at least arguable that the ‘capable of being moved’ is prescribed by ‘whether by being towed or being transported on a trailer…”

 

[Ingwe]

Great minds think alike!

It could transpire that fools never differ is more apt…..

 

[GJH]

I have looked at the Act briefly (I didn’t read the entire statute) and I agree it looks like it would be open to challenge in so far as it applies to motorhomes rather than caravans. I looked at the definition section and/or interpretation section (s32) and could see nothing that refers to motorhomes. The reference is to caravans.
Perhaps we could crowd-fund getting counsel’s opinion on whether the Act applies to motorhomes?

Maybe it is something the large clubs should be doing. After all, it affects their members.

Edit: Looking at this section: the words I’ve highlighted and italicised in bold; does not seem to properly describe a motorhome which is neither towed nor nor transported on a trailer.

Interpretation of Part I.​

(1)In this Part of this Act, unless the context otherwise requires—

• “caravan” means any structure designed or adapted for human habitation which is capable of being moved from one place to another (whether by being towed, or by being transported on a motor vehicle or trailer) and any motor vehicle so designed or adapted, but does not include—
  
  (a)
  any railway rolling stock which is for the time being on rails forming part of a railway system, or
  (b)
  any tent;

As has been pointed out by Rapido925m and Minxy, motorhomes definitely come under the definition of Caravan in the Act.

The larger clubs will not be interested because their business models are compliant with the Act. They are not responsible for what their members may choose to do outside of what they offer.

 

[jezport]

Just fell across this video from By The Curb - not someone I have ever watched before. He frequently goes to Bridlington, stays in pub stops. Has now discovered several bubs having been told cant take vans any more!!

Whilst we dont use pub stops i know a lot do. goodness knows what the issue is, just hope it doesnt spread.

It's the crappy council round there. They obviously have loads of money as half the shops are empty or charity shops and thy want yo ban everywhere a motorhome can stop except sites.

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[Jim]

motorhomes definitely come under the definition of Caravan

Definitely? Nice, simple, clean cut, definitely. So the barrister in question in my post doesn't know what he's talking about then? Thats the thing with Barristers, they get rich arguing black is white and often proving it.

 

[Jim]

Maybe Landlords should stop building "stationing" areas around their pubs. Because its all this stationing that the Act is trying to avoid. Perhaps if they just built pub car parks, we'd be OK

 

[GJH]

Definitely? Nice, simple, clean cut, definitely. So the barrister in question in my post doesn't know what he's talking about then? Thats the thing with Barristers, they get rich arguing black is white and often proving it.

Two different points Jim.

The definition of Caravan definitely includes motorhomes by virtue of their being "capable of being moved from one place to another" and being "any motor vehicle so designed or adapted".

The counsel opinion which you quoted was that "it can be reasonably argued that motorhomes are never truly "stationed" in the way the Act implies".
I agree that that point is open to interpretation and can only definitely be decided by the courts (they may as well decide on the exemption question at the same time ).

 

[Purrfecttune]

I can only quote what happened at our local pub, The pub now has a new landlord who is very accommodating so I put it on S4S app but also advised a £10 refundable bar charge, but upto now nowhere near as many vans have stayed.
Shame as it’s a nice pub with good basic food

Obviously stopped the freeloaders!

 

[Mleabon]

What a nanny state we live in, I was walking my dog on the beach earlier and it crossed my mind if I was allowed to be on this part of the beach at this time of the year and I just thought **ck it, my dog has as much right to be here than the law making humans that think they can dictate the rules. If a pub wants to allow motorhome to overnight, why shouldn't they? Back to the dog situation, maybe I should find another 11 Rhodesian Ridgebacks to team up with my wingman and chuck them in a room with 12 politicians and see what the rules of going on the beach end up as!

Sorry, it's been a tough day.

Quite agree. I've been saying for a while now that life is becoming more unpleasant and stressful generally due to all the rules and petty bureaucracy and general lunacy. We didnt have to worry about much in the eighties. We had free speech and you could drive without worrying about straying a few miles an hour over the speed limit. No net zero rubbish. I could go on but I won't

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[MichaelT]

There’s a strong legal argument to be made that motorhomes should not even come under the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 at all. A skilled barrister could challenge much of the Act’s application to motorhomes, starting with the very first line that sets out its purpose. After all, it can be reasonably argued that motorhomes are never truly "stationed" in the way the Act implies. And especially in a car park!

And this isn't just speculation, a respected barrister has said as much. All it would take is a few hundred thousand quid to win in court.

Oak Tree Motor Homes Ltd v The Commissioners for HM Revenue and Customs: [2017] UKUT 0027 (TCC)

Upper Tribunal Tax and Chancery decision of Mr Justice Newey and Judge Sinfield on 25 January 2017.

www.gov.uk

 

[meanders]

What a nanny state we live in, I was walking my dog on the beach earlier and it crossed my mind if I was allowed to be on this part of the beach at this time of the year and I just thought **ck it, my dog has as much right to be here than the law making humans that think they can dictate the rules. If a pub wants to allow motorhome to overnight, why shouldn't they? Back to the dog situation, maybe I should find another 11 Rhodesian Ridgebacks to team up with my wingman and chuck them in a room with 12 politicians and see what the rules of going on the beach end up as!

Were it was not for irresponsible owners not clearing up after dogs, and in some cases, not controlling them, none of the not allowed on beach/areas of the park etc rules would ever be needed. Nothing to do with the Nanny state, but plenty to do with lack of concern for those that follow.

 

[jezport]

We are just at the Piebald Inn.
Amazing food, not cheap but well worth the price. One of our best meals out in many years.
They charge £15 a night and give a £10 voucher to spend in the pub.
They have EHU if you want to pay for it also.
Plenty of vans her last night.
The numbers on the pie list are portions in stock.

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

Were it was not for irresponsible owners not clearing up after dogs, and in some cases, not controlling them, none of the not allowed on beach/areas of the park etc rules would ever be needed. Nothing to do with the Nanny state, but plenty to do with lack of concern for those that follow.

Yawn.

 

[Jim]

Can we be nicer please. Thanks

Onemanandhisdog Can I remind you about rule 1. Thanks

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[TDub49]

Were it was not for irresponsible owners not clearing up after dogs, and in some cases, not controlling them, none of the not allowed on beach/areas of the park etc rules would ever be needed. Nothing to do with the Nanny state, but plenty to do with lack of concern for those that follow.

 

[jockaneezer]

I'm struggling to think of anything that the "big clubs" have done to further motorhomers and caravanners in general, that wasn't of primary benefit to the clubs first ?

 

[Lenny HB]

We put our local village pub on Britstops and many vans did use it,
But in true Motorhome fashion 70% of visiting vans had a wife that was not well enough to come and have a drink!
After 3 years of FLTs he said F********* tight buggers ? and removed the stop over

Britstops don't help they state you are not under any obligation to purchase from the stopover.

We are not members but we do occasionally use pub stops and have never stopped without buying a meal.
Last year we stopped at one and 6 relitives joined us for a meal so the pub did well for allowing one van to park.

 

[Terry]

I would think that if you have a pub without exemption / memberships then they are now in breach of the law. As such that means no overnight stops. Very simple to police by DEFRA by simply asking which club has issued the exemption and checking membership numbers- as I understand the site/pub is supposed to keep a record of visitors staying overnight. DEFRA can also revoke exemption if they do wish to.
People staying on someone’s drive would be different in that they would not be there every night and DEFRA would not have time to do anything about it, nor would they be bothered by the odd stop. Unless someone complains they would be no wiser.

 

[LesW]

Yawn.

Here's the problem in one word.

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[Hymer Tony B]

Surely the answer is to have a £10 parking fee, redeemable against any spending in the pub?

On a similar note: When we visited the Western Isles, we did a pub stop and reserved for dinner. Shortly before we were due to go in I was unwell so Julie asked if we could still stay over and maybe have breakfast in the morning if I felt better (they had accommodation as well hence the breakfast).

Well I did feel better and we had a huge Scottish breakfast each with coffees.

When it came to pay, the manager could not access the card machine so he rang the owners………………….. who told him to tell us that breakfast was free of charge!!!!

Amazing hospitality

There is pub in Talacre North Wales. £10 a night, give you £10 voucher which you can redeem in one transaction at the bar. They normally do food but when we stopped Chef was on day off. Let us redeem against drinks. Even takeaway menus from local takeaways they let you eat on the premises. Had a great time.

 

[Tiger Bear]

We are just at the Piebald Inn.
Amazing food, not cheap but well worth the price. One of our best meals out in many years.
They charge £15 a night and give a £20 voucher to spend in the pub.
They have EHU if you want to pay for it also.
Plenty of vans her last night.
The numbers on the pie list are portions in stock.


View attachment 1039870

View attachment 1039872

So they are paying each van owner £5 to use park at the pub?

------------------------------

From their website:

Tariffs:​

• With EHU – £30.00 per night. (includes £20.00 electric supply + £10.00 Piebald Inn voucher redeemable on food and drink during your stay)
• Without EHU – £15.00 per night (includes £10.00 Piebald Inn voucher redeemable on food and drink during your stay)
• Brit Stop Members Free ( requires presentation of current Brit Stop book. EHU when required paid separately) *.

One nights stay deposit to be paid at time of booking.

We welcome motor home guests to join us for breakfast; this must be pre-booked via the bar by no later than 8pm the night before. Breakfast is charged at £12pp when booked at the same time as booking your stay or £14pp thereafter.

Check In is from 12pm on the date of your booking – please check in at reception on your arrival so The Pie Team can advise you of your BAY Number or Non EHU allocation place.

 

[meanders]

So they are paying each van owner £5 to use park at the pub?

Not really. While it's £20 value to the customer it's at 'cost' to the pub.

 

[Tiger Bear]

Not really. While it's £20 value to the customer it's at 'cost' to the pub.

I know it's not. I'm questioning the maths from jezport
The tariff quoted from the website was to help illustrate that

 

[Onemanandhisdog]

Can we be nicer please. Thanks

Onemanandhisdog Can I remind you about rule 1. Thanks

Rule 1: Be Nice​

This is a civilised place for public discussion. We’re here to enjoy ourselves and have great conversations — so please, always aim to improve the tone and quality of the discussion, even in small ways. If you’re unsure whether your post will add anything worthwhile, take a moment to think before posting.

Disagreements are perfectly fine — but be agreeable when you disagree. Always strive to be nice.

Getting personal. Personal attacks of any kind are not allowed. That includes offensive, insulting, profane or vulgar language. Remarks like “Get a life”, “Grow up”, “That’s stupid/silly/pathetic/crap/bullshit” are not welcome here.

As soon as a discussion turns personal, it tends to spiral — fast. Comments like “You would say that” or “Only an idiot would do that” are personal digs. Don’t do it. It ruins the fun, friendly atmosphere for everyone.


Short, one-word responses like ‘Yawn,’ ‘Boring,’ ‘Whatever,’ or ‘Meh’ are not nice. They come across as rude and unhelpful. This is a community for friendly and respectful communication—please engage with others considerately


If someone rubs you up the wrong way, respond to what they said — not who they are. DO NOT question someone’s intelligence, make jibes about their parenting, education or comment on them personally in any way. Instead, provide a reasoned reply that adds something constructive.

Langtoftlad you too please

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Clicking the Like button on a rule-breaking post is taken as an endorsement of that behaviour. Don’t do it.

So implying all dog owners leave poo everywhere isn't rude or insulting? The 'yawn' was because this insult is regurgitated time and time again.
As a non EV owner, the only Range Anxiety I suffer is having enough poo bags in my pocket to cover the next dog walk.

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[Jim]

So implying all dog owners leave poo everywhere isn't rude or insulting? The 'yawn' was because this insult is regurgitated time and time again.

Yawn

 

[Jim]

Not a very nice way to respond, is it? You've been here 10 years. The rules have been there for a lot longer. There is no excuse for breaking them. Thanks.


And anyway, the post in question mentioned Irresponsible dog owners. Not all dog owners, so there really was no need to be rude.

 

[meanders]

Not unlike the few irresponsible motorhome owners who spoil things for others by dumping grey and black waste inappropriately including at some pubs who have stopped overnighting. We stayed at one not far away a few years back in January. There was one other van there who allowed it to dribble all night. Unfortunately it was below freezing and the carpark was then like a skating rink. I nearly went base over apex in the morning going out to remove the silver screen and manoeuvring 3.5 tons on sheet ice with limited space was 'interesting'. I note that particular pub now has a sign up 'No motorhomes overnight' and who can blame them.

 

[VXman]

Although you have that the wrong way around 30% spend 70% don’t I agree, they used the toilets and some used that water/ and dump facilities but still spent nothing.
So the land said the tight arsed FLBs can pass us by

When I have done pub stopovers we end up spending far more than we would in a hald decent campsite. Often typical pub grub is pretty poor and I could have knocked up something better on my hob in the motorhome. And certiany you'd get a better bottle of wine from the super market for less than half the price of a pub. So actually pub stops work out at poor value considering a campsite will give you a 24 hour toilets and showers - possibly electric too.

I will still use a pub if there isn't a decent alternative where i am.

 

[rod_vw]

I've seen a lot of discussion on the legal definition of a Motorcaravan but seen nothing relating to how trucks with sleeper cabs fit in with this not to mention the transport cafes/parks who allow/charge for said trucks to overnight.

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