Avoid Bradford

[Yorick]

We probably have the cleanest air in Europe.
Very little traffic and windy all the time.

 

[Mzracer]

All pollution is 'local' to somewhere.

The problem is that the big polluters not only foul their own patch but also a lot of others as well.

I disagree with starting in our own back yard, hit the big targets first not the little scraps in the corner.

 

[Mzracer]

Flat landscape, trees and ponies.

And beautiful beaches, nice rivers, varied wildlife and one of the best climates in the UK.

There is a reason that so many people want to live here !!

 

[The Wino]

The problem is that the big polluters not only foul their own patch but also a lot of others as well.

I disagree with starting in our own back yard, hit the big targets first not the little scraps in the corner.

Totally agree hit the countries with the highest emissions per person they should find it easiest to reduce the emissions....

 

[Folkranger]

And beautiful beaches, nice rivers, varied wildlife and one of the best climates in the UK.

There is a reason that so many people want to live here !!

Population Density: New Forest = .04%, Bradford = .45%

Therefore Bradford is 11 times more desireable than the New Forest.

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[Mzracer]

Totally agree hit the countries with the highest emissions per person they should find it easiest to reduce the emissions....

They will find it no easier to reduce pollution than anyone else, old habits die hard, but they can do it and California is a great example.

By tariffing the Chinese you are actually hitting these high polluters as they are buying the cheap tat.

Tell me what is really going to screw this planet up? is it driving an older vehicle through Bradford or is it the 47Gw of coal fired power stations installed in 2023? To put 47Gw into perspective that is very close to the peak demand for all of the UK, so the coal fired power stations commissioned in China in 2023 would supply all of the UK at our highest demand, frightening don't you think?

Keep it in mind the next time you buy a bit of cheap tat.

 

[Mzracer]

Population Density: New Forest = .04%, Bradford = .45%

Therefore Bradford is 11 times more desireable than the New Forest.

You have got a point but I don't quite agree with it !!!

If I told you the reason for 0.45% I would get thrown off the forum !!

 

[Folkranger]

You have got a point but I don't quite agree with it !!!

If I told you the reason for 0.45% I would get thrown off the forum !!

Not by me, you wouldn't.

 

[Sandancers]

There is a relatively simple 'fix' to a big percentage of the problem.
'Polluter pays'
Tax all packaging.

And force all producers of packaging to 'buy back' their packaging in some form
(IE: A deposit on glass bottles)

Cardboard, made from recycled paper products, could be taxed at pennies per tonne.
Plastic film however should be taxed at a much higher rate, say £1 per/m2
Plastic bottles at a similar rate, say £1 per litre bottle, whereas glass would be about 10p per litre bottle + deposit scheme.

What about the nano particles that enters the food chain from pollution put into the oceans. Mainly from 10 rivers, mostly in the far East.

How do you tackle that ?

 

[Sandancers]

Flat landscape, trees and ponies. Pubs aren't bad but not too many.
Try Newcastle, beautiful vibrant city with Northumberland on the doorstep which, while being countryside, is certainly not boring.

Please reconsider your statement. Something along the lines of "It's grim, grim and more grim up North, best stay away!" Would be more accurate and acceptable.

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[Folkranger]

Please reconsider your statement. Something along the lines of "It's grim, grim and more grim up North, best stay away!" Would be more accurate and acceptable.

Ok, but I think most (not all) southerners are too ignorant about other oarts of the UK for it to make a difference.

 

[Sandancers]

A good portion of them do every weekend !!

Causing pollution to kill their fellow residents then ? I know, ban Londoners from leaving the city.

 

[PaulyP]

If they increased the mot standard everyone with a more polluting vehicle would either have to buy a lower emissions one or use public transport. If they did either of those they would not have to pay any emissions levy now. So how is it about making money?
It's the same with the other thread about compulsory speed limiters the same ones who say that speed cameras are just a money making scheme are the same ones against speed limiters ( which would actually reduce the number of speeding fines!). I suspect that some just want to pollute as much as they want and speed without any penalties as both show an " I'm alright Jack" attitude.

The authorities do not want to stop the vehicles that they claim are causing pollution as they then wouldn’t be able to charge them, they would have to come up with another money making scheme to rip of the drivers, most of the cities are run by councils on the verge of bankruptcy most of them are only surviving by rip of scam charges, I agree with speed limits, in fact I spend 90% of my driving in cruise control so I stay under the limits, however driving is now no longer a pleasure due to various ways they are trying to control you, I would like to be able to drive the type of vehicle I like not pushed into having a vehicle that I do not want.

 

[Folkranger]

Causing pollution to kill their fellow residents then ? I know, ban Londoners from leaving the city.

Wouldn't work. Most Londoners never do leave "the smoke"

 

[PaulyP]

Wouldn't work. Most Londoners never do leave "the smoke"

Are there any Londoners left in London ? In fact are there any English people still living in London, last time I was there I didn’t see or meet any !

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[Folkranger]

Are there any Londoners left in London ? In fact are there any English people still living in London, last time I was there I didn’t see or meet any !

Agree, and that accent, what happened to good old cockney?

 

[Mzracer]

I would like to be able to drive the type of vehicle I like not pushed into having a vehicle that I do not want.

Yes look what happened the last time that government tried to tell you what type of vehicle to be driving !!

 

[Brains]

What about the nano particles that enters the food chain from pollution put into the oceans. Mainly from 10 rivers, mostly in the far East.

How do you tackle that ?

Exactly as above.
Remember 'Polluter pays'

If the UK and the EU turned around to the owners of those 10 rivers and said:

'We are imposing a packaging tax on all your goods that we import.'
We would be doing this for everyone in any case, so they should not feel singled out.
If they use recyclable or biodegradable products for packaging
or,
if they buy back their own packaging,
then the tax would be very little.

We also say:
'We are adding an extra packaging tax on all your goods that we import'
As you are not imposing a packaging tax locally.
If you impose a realistic packaging tax locally, then we will drop the additional tax.

It would make their goods very expensive in the UK and Europe.
However a change to recyclable or biodegradable packaging would massively reduce the pollution as costs go back to as before.

 

[SIFTA SAM]

What about the nano particles that enters the food chain from pollution put into the oceans. Mainly from 10 rivers, mostly in the far East.

How do you tackle that ?

You can't, so you just keep repeating selected facts from selected 'experts' and try to guilt the gullible, as with other World ending predicted apocalypses and end up bankrupting the country?

 

[Mzracer]

Exactly as above.
Remember 'Polluter pays'

If the UK and the EU turned around to the owners of those 10 rivers and said:

'We are imposing a packaging tax on all your goods that we import.'
We would be doing this for everyone in any case, so they should not feel singled out.
If they use recyclable or biodegradable products for packaging
or,
if they buy back their own packaging,
then the tax would be very little.

We also say:
'We are adding an extra packaging tax on all your goods that we import'
As you are not imposing a packaging tax locally.
If you impose a realistic packaging tax locally, then we will drop the additional tax.

It would make their goods very expensive in the UK and Europe.
However a change to recyclable or biodegradable packaging would massively reduce the pollution as costs go back to as before.

They will only see this as a tariff under another name, however something/anything is worth a try.

Our governments are too weak to tackle the big problems.

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[gpat]

Please find a word to use where a lay person disagrees with an expert in the field

Ignorance or pig headed stupidity? That's 4 words I suppose.

 

[Sandancers]

OK.
Please reword it.

Please find a word to use where a lay person disagrees with an expert in the field.

I don't know of a singular word, but how about;

When the Post Office experts said there was no fault with the Horizon software and yet the lay persons, in this case sub postoffice operators, said there was.

Who were the fools and ignorant there ?

 

[Brains]

I don't know of a singular word, but how about;

When the Post Office experts said there was no fault with the Horizon software and yet the lay persons, in this case sub postoffice operators, said there was.

Who were the fools and ignorant there ?

I would suggest they were neither fools nor ignorant.
They deliberately suppressed evidence.
Which made them liars.

Which, as has been proved eventually, once the 'science' has been published for all to see.
The memo from the Fujitsu engineer outlining the problems, supressed by the in-house lawyers, for a decade was finally given to a newspaper from the original guy that wrote it and lucky had used his own home PC to write the report. (And therefore could not be charged with theft of company information)

In the case of pollution I don't think anyone is suggesting anyone else is lying or omitting any truths.
Hence all the major political parties back the science, however none of them are really ready to grasp the nettle to make the major changes required to resolve the issue.

 

[GAVLAD]

A picture speaks a thousand words....

I feel for the OP as I know the area well and yes, the turning out of Dockfield Road is a right hand filter only - which immediately takes you into the CAZ.
I'm not sure where the cameras are located though as they should be after the next set of lights as these offer a turning for those wanting left out of Dockfield Rd. - I'd be inclined to challenge the charge for that reason.

That said, did the OP make an appointment with Specialist Covers? If so, I feel that they should have a duty to advise their clients this.

Dockfield Road has some industrial units at the end and my guess is the council is targeting the delivery vans/trucks.

The CAZ has been introduced in areas where they know people will pay or will upgrade their vehicle.
Funnily enough, they didn't introduce it for Tong Street which is between the motorway and centre - a road which is stop/start to endure driving at busier times and industrialised where pollution is high.
Labour council blames Tory government saying they forced them into it, but have then said they've made over £10m to date. They've also said that they are considering scrapping the CAZ once pollution levels reduce further down. - Can't see it happening tbh as it's a right cash cow.
My mate had a Peugeot van and had to pay. He swapped it for a Peugeot van with windows & rear seat (Postman Pat style van) and he no longer has to pay. same age, engine, fuel.
Residents can register one vehicle per household to be wavered from the CAZ fee if they show log book with their address on it.

 

[The general]

Yes the traffic in Lyndhurst is terrible, has been for decades.

At least it is fairly civilised in Lyndhurst though and definitely not in dump status.

Correct but walking the high st admist the traffic ,much better exploring the villages

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[Mzracer]

I don't know of a singular word, but how about;

When the Post Office experts said there was no fault with the Horizon software and yet the lay persons, in this case sub postoffice operators, said there was.

Who were the fools and ignorant there ?

Brilliant.

 

[Mzracer]

View attachment 904999
A picture speaks a thousand words....

I feel for the OP as I know the area well and yes, the turning out of Dockfield Road is a right hand filter only - which immediately takes you into the CAZ.
I'm not sure where the cameras are located though as they should be after the next set of lights as these offer a turning for those wanting left out of Dockfield Rd. - I'd be inclined to challenge the charge for that reason.

That said, did the OP make an appointment with Specialist Covers? If so, I feel that they should have a duty to advise their clients this.

Dockfield Road has some industrial units at the end and my guess is the council is targeting the delivery vans/trucks.

The CAZ has been introduced in areas where they know people will pay or will upgrade their vehicle.
Funnily enough, they didn't introduce it for Tong Street which is between the motorway and centre - a road which is stop/start to endure driving at busier times and industrialised where pollution is high.
Labour council blames Tory government saying they forced them into it, but have then said they've made over £10m to date. They've also said that they are considering scrapping the CAZ once pollution levels reduce further down. - Can't see it happening tbh as it's a right cash cow.
My mate had a Peugeot van and had to pay. He swapped it for a Peugeot van with windows & rear seat (Postman Pat style van) and he no longer has to pay. same age, engine, fuel.
Residents can register one vehicle per household to be wavered from the CAZ fee if they show log book with their address on it.

Specialised Covers did not realise/know about the problem at the Craigs Honda end of Dockside Road.

I will enjoy the battle with Bradford council, they have meet more than their match with me, if I win the battle is another thing but it will not be for a want of trying !!

 

[gus-lopez]

As an aside: I think anyone calling these anti pollution/congestion schemes 'Money making ventures for the local council' needs to obtain their regular news from a reputable source, a

Why?if you can pay to enter then it had nothing to do with emissions.it is purely to make money. To my knowledge the is the only place where you can "pay to pollute ". it should be a straight " do not comply uou cannot enter ".
At present in London I can pay to pollute.if I increase MGW above 3 5t easily done then I am compliant. Complete nonsense.

 

[The Wino]

Why?if you can pay to enter then it had nothing to do with emissions.it is purely to make money. To my knowledge the is the only place where you can "pay to pollute ". it should be a straight " do not comply uou cannot enter ".
At present in London I can pay to pollute.if I increase MGW above 3 5t easily done then I am compliant. Complete nonsense.

The pay to enter is to make swapping to a lower emissions vehicle more attractive financially and to reward people who do. It's a bit like tax on fags a carrot and a stick.
Would you be happy if it was just a straightforward ban?

 

[Brains]

Why?if you can pay to enter then it had nothing to do with emissions.it is purely to make money. To my knowledge the is the only place where you can "pay to pollute ". it should be a straight " do not comply uou cannot enter ".
At present in London I can pay to pollute.if I increase MGW above 3 5t easily done then I am compliant. Complete nonsense.

I think see the rest of the thread,
At least the principle of 'polluter pays' is maintained, however see #72
as the current situation is far from ideal, and everyone knows it.

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