Are rallies legal after the 4th July?

[Jim]

Appletree rally, not a Motorhomefun rally.

Appletree can't hold a rally, you need an exemption for that. When you rally at a showground or similar, it is all the clubs individual exemptions that make the camping legal.

 

[Jim]

. There is no mention about how many people may stay on that campsite,

The campsite's council issued licence will dictate that figure.

 

[irnbru]

You may get an answer this year if your lucky.

Well you might be surprised to know ive written to them 3 times before and had 3 replies back.

 

[Jim]

Well you might be surprised to know ive written to them 3 times before and had 3 replies back.

They know you then Sandra

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Well you might be surprised to know ive written to them 3 times before and had 3 replies back.

Well done you, have you framed the answers and put them in your van?

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[irnbru]

Well done you, have you framed the answers and put them in your van?

No but apart from posting the contents I did try telling you lot several times. Its guidance in Scotland , use your own judgement , not rules.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

No but apart from posting the contents I did try telling you lot several times. Its guidance in Scotland , use your own judgement , not rules.

Just checked and regret to advise but Scottish goverment advises as "rules", nothing about using own judgement on guidelines

 

[Chris]

A rally must number 30 or less.

The MotorhomeFacts annual rally will be ok then.

 

[irnbru]

Just checked and regret to advise but Scottish goverment advises as "rules", nothing about using own judgement on guidelines

Well I can assure you it says so black n white in my email. Even if the words "Rules" was used somewhere its certainly not Law like in England.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Rules have always been broken, North of the Scottish/English border.

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[Debs]

Can groups of more than 6 people from different households gather in one place?

A question I've just asked our insurers.

Appletree can't hold a rally, you need an exemption for that. When you rally at a showground or similar, it is all the clubs individual exemptions that make the camping legal.

Being as there are at least a couple of rallies supposed to be going ahead quite soon I'm wondering if you have had a reply yet Jim please? I'm getting a bit twitchy.

Ps and have you seen my message about Jasmin?

 

[irnbru]

Surely there must be a difference between folk gathering in one place and folk parking in one place. Look at campsites theres more than 6 households on them.

But yes im getting very worried as Millport is less than 2 weeks away now. Funnily enough Debs I asked Jim earlier about this.

 

[Debs]

Well I'm wondering how the Pickering meet would stand as well as it's held on a c&cc certified site but is being held by Fun.

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

Well I'm wondering how the Pickering meet would stand as well as it's held on a c&cc certified site but is being held by Fun.

We are waiting to hear from Jim ’s insurance if it will be covered and also advice on whether we should all pay the site individually or as a group. We c are less than 30 and there are no organised activities

 

[irnbru]

Id have thought if the insurance wasn't going to be valid it would be up to the insurance companies to write to their customers and tell them so. They are always quick enough to take the money.

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[daveandsan]

Id have thought if the insurance wasn't going to be valid it would be up to the insurance companies to write to their customers and tell them so. They are always quick enough to take the money.

Sandra, have you had a blow to the head recently.

 

[irnbru]

Sandra, have you had a blow to the head recently.

Im afraid your post has gone right over my head, you'll have to explain.

 

[daveandsan]

Sandra, insurance companies never say you might not be insured until you try to claim.
You would have to be out of your mind to think they would actually warn you.

 

[sedge]

Well insurance such as Jim's, the C&MC's or the C&CC's, cover the policyholder's legal liability but they are not in the business of interpreting any of the club's liability at Law. If what they do is Lawful, then they have no liability for something going wrong, but the insurance will cover their defence in a Court of Law when someone takes it that far with their accusation as long as the insurers legal advisers say that he/they did act lawfully.

In other words, ask your own Legal Adviser!

Blimey - and I used to be an international corporate insurance broker with Liability insurance my specialist subject - but these are new Laws that haven't had any legal precedents set in the Courts thus far (eg Rylands v Fletcher or Donahoe v Stevenson) so there currently ARE no flippin experts!

Our rallying Club took the decision in March to cancel all rallies until and including 31st July so we haven't got one due until August anyway. We about to issue new guidance on what ralliers can and can't do, and can only strongly recommend that if individuals aren't happy about how folk are behaving when they get there, to report the individuals to the rally officer and subsequently to the Committee in writing - and leave.

 

[irnbru]

Sandra, insurance companies never say you might not be insured until you try to claim.
You would have to be out of your mind to think they would actually warn you.

If the terms and conditions of the policy changed then surely they would have to say so in their cover. Exactly what would you be claiming for ? I thought the insurance was for any 3rd party liability, damage to vans etc. If it’s for CV I think it would be pretty damn hard to prove you picked it up at a meet. If that’s the case what’s up with issuing a disclaimer that everyone signs?
If we can’t rally then what’s the point in paying insurance ?

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[Debs]

We are waiting to hear from Jim ’s insurance if it will be covered and also advice on whether we should all pay the site individually or as a group. We c are less than 30 and there are no organised activities

You are missing the point Chris. It's a certified site on the c& cc network & so only licenced for 5 vans. Paying & booking individually isn't applicable as that means any site limited to 5 vans could just choose have loads of vans on at any point and they would risk losing their licence. I think it's only fair to Colin that that you make him aware, it's his licence.

Millport is held in the Garrison which isn't even a site. I suppose it could be classed as wild camping at a push so slightly different with it being in Scotland - but I'm only guessing.

A rally needs to be covered by the exemption certificate of the organisation holding the rally which is MHF in the cases I'm talking about. And that is linked to the insurance.

If that's not complied with then my understanding is that the organiser I e yourself and Sandra would be personally liable should there be any claim. And that's based on conversation I had with Wombles at Lymington a couple of years ago.

 

[scousebird]

I've had confirmation that the THS I've booked is going ahead from 6th August. It is being booked as a campsite only and there will be no social gatherings.

At the moment though we can gather up to 6 people outside as long as we're correctly social distancing but as a marshal would you be willing to police that. It's not easy is it?

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

Debs do you have a link or similar that tells you about how to get an exemption certificate? If Pickering is not legal than I will have to cancel I guess.

 

[irnbru]

Debs do you have a link or similar that tells you about how to get an exemption certificate? If Pickering is not legal than I will have to cancel I guess.

Its not just the exemption cert you need its the insurance to go with it....I believe!

 

[Debs]

I've had confirmation that the THS I've booked is going ahead from 6th August. It is being booked as a campsite only and there will be no social gatherings.

At the moment though we can gather up to 6 people outside as long as we're correctly social distancing but as a marshal would you be willing to police that. It's not easy is it?

Yes, I wondered how that would go if you get folks gathering. We've been refused a booking on a CL as we wanted 4 pitches as it would be classed as more than 2 households!

Debs do you have a link or similar that tells you about how to get an exemption certificate? If Pickering is not legal than I will have to cancel I guess.

The only thing I've seen is this Chris & a huge list somewhere of organisations that hold a certificate (& presumably insurance)

Social clubs: get an exemption to camp without a licence

Recreational organisations like caravan clubs or the Scouts can apply for an exemption to camp without a licence or planning permission.

www.gov.uk

Jim might still get confirmation whether covid makes any difference to the insurance.

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[irnbru]

Yes, I wondered how that would go if you get folks gathering. We've been refused a booking on a CL as we wanted 4 pitches as it would be classed as more than 2 households!

You need to change your location to Scotland Debs, we are allowed to meet another 4 households, maximum of 15 people so you'd be ok up here with your CL booking

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

Yes, I wondered how that would go if you get folks gathering. We've been refused a booking on a CL as we wanted 4 pitches as it would be classed as more than 2 households!




The only thing I've seen is this Chris & a huge list somewhere of organisations that hold a certificate (& presumably insurance)

Social clubs: get an exemption to camp without a licence

Recreational organisations like caravan clubs or the Scouts can apply for an exemption to camp without a licence or planning permission.

www.gov.uk

Jim might still get confirmation whether covid makes any difference to the insurance.

We’ll surely MHF has an exemption certificate then, asMHF organises rallies all the time. . I thought you meant something special for the Covid situation

So maybe my question to Jim should be “ Is Pickering covered by the MHF Exemption Certificate?”

 

[peterc10]

My guess is Jim answer will depend upon what MHF's insurers say. If they say nothing then you and/or Jim may end up with no insurance cover when something goes wrong and then be personally liable. Up to you, but I wouldn't want to put myself in that position.

 

[irnbru]

I really don't get what covid has to do with insurance. How are campsites all managing then? I fear far too many folk might just be jumping on the bandwagon instead of seeking out the answers themselves.

Why pay insurance if you cant rally or is insurance actually paid for something else and just includes rallies?

And it probably doesn't help that we all have our own set of "You can do this but not that" throughout Scotland, England and Wales.

 

[Debs]

It's the insurance Mr Chrysalis as peterc10 has just said, not the certificate.

I assume the Stratford rally would have had similar issues as they aren't a campsite so I assume Polly & Dave were happy to take the risk as they were running it.

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