Alloy wheels quandry !

[Happy Jack]

Hi,
Was settled on Supermetal hammer 16" alloys for my Ducato.
SWMBO said watch and wait for black friday or xmass or January sakes. Methinks that's fanciful but swmbo mbo.
They are rated at 1250Kgs per wheel = 2500 per axle.
Weighbridged in full hol trim at 1610 front, 1500 rear.
However, have today seen Fox Viper at £200 less for 4.
BUT, they are rated at 950Kgs each, 1900 per axle.
Still nicely above axle weight but Supermetal much better.
Super metal are made in UK. Fox, don't know.
Fox are gravity cast, would think Supermetal would be pressure cast to achieve density for the higher load rating.
Having looked at various websites can't find any more info except that there is a large range in both makes.
What would you do ?
Does anyone have any thoughts about what else I should be considering.
For example, I know I have to tell my insurer but would they need a TUV certificate ?
Anything else you can think of ?
Thanks.

 

[Happy Jack]

We were going to go for the Supermetal wheels too - originally the Hammer and then later the Vault.

In the end, early in the year when we were looking to change, they were on back order and no suppliers were able to get hold of them - so after waiting a few months and failing an MOT due to needing a new tyre, we got a refund and changed to Borbet CWD - slightly more expensive but delivered next day.

I ordered a cheap 16” steel spare, and the kit to fit the alloy wheel into the underslung wheel carrier if needed. Intend to do a ‘dry run’ of that so that I have some idea how it works before needing to do it in the wet and mud at the side of the road…

I liked the Supermetal as they looked fairly ‘original’ and also not too much of a pain to clean. They also fitted the original Fiat centre caps - as do the Borbet CWD.

I believe both Supermetal and Borbet use the original Fiat wheel bolts, at least for the 5x118 PCD hub?

Fox alloys seem popular on cars and small (VW T5) size vans - but agree with others that you need to cover the permitted axle weight rather than your actual (current) weights.

In short - if you can get the Supermetal, all my research on them seemed positive so I’d say they’re worth the extra!



View attachment 976981

yes agree with you, have settled on Supermetal.
Matt black is available now but just to be contrary I want Silver which are out of stock everywhere.

 

[Fragle]

Could keep the 15" steel wheel.
But, thinking of 1 6" steel wheel with same tyre.

If you search for the thread I did last week.

I want Alloys changed and informed the insurance. This is classed as a modification and is therefore subject to you giving them even more money even though I was making the van safer with better tyres etc. £100 increase

Not telling them risks voiding the insurance in the event of an accident

Alloys. Did you know?

We have an IH crafter 6.8m panel van. It comes with alloys on already But because of the long wheelbase it makes the step close to the ground. On the last trip to France I grounded at least 4 times with minor repairable damage to the electric step. The last grounding was boarding the ferry at...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[JimmE]

If you search for the thread I did last week.

I want Alloys changed and informed the insurance. This is classed as a modification and is therefore subject to you giving them even more money even though I was making the van safer with better tyres etc.

Not telling them risks voiding the insurance in the event of an accident

Informed Comfort insurance of our alloy wheel change with AT tyres and rear air suspension, and was informed that there was no additional cost provided ‘the cost of replacing them is covered within the stated value of the van’.

Same when we upgraded our solar/electrical system the previous year. Premium hasn’t hiked much so far, but I guess it may be more of an issue if/when we have to shop around with other insurers.

 

[Fragle]

Informed Comfort insurance of our alloy wheel change with AT tyres and rear air suspension, and was informed that there was no additional cost provided ‘the cost of replacing them is covered within the stated value of the van’.

Same when we upgraded our solar/electrical system the previous year. Premium hasn’t hiked much so far, but I guess it may be more of an issue if/when we have to shop around with other insurers.

My concern is renewal as well. As going forward you will have to declare every year. Hence another reason to bump up the already extortionate price.

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[Happy Jack]

If you search for the thread I did last week.

I want Alloys changed and informed the insurance. This is classed as a modification and is therefore subject to you giving them even more money even though I was making the van safer with better tyres etc. £100 increase

Not telling them risks voiding the insurance in the event of an accident

Alloys. Did you know?

We have an IH crafter 6.8m panel van. It comes with alloys on already But because of the long wheelbase it makes the step close to the ground. On the last trip to France I grounded at least 4 times with minor repairable damage to the electric step. The last grounding was boarding the ferry at...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Hi Fragke, had already thought of that.
Informed our insurer every time we added something while doing the self build, so well aware they need to know about anything that adds to the insured value.

 

[Happy Jack]

Stick with the Supermetals with the higher load rating.

Yes CAB69, going to do just that.

 

[Happy Jack]

My take for what it’s worth would be don’t bother. Over the years I have had nothing but bother with Motorhome alloy wheels and find them more trouble than they are worth. It all started when we bought a Burstner Elegance back in 2010, it had lovely diamond cut alloys, within 6 months they started to develop white veins under the varnish. Burstner kindly replaced them twice in just under 3 years, each time telling me the issue was resolved. We then bought another Elegance, same again 3 sets under Warranty. Then a N&B Flair, not such a nice finish as the Burstner alloys but started to pit after 12 months, again replaced under warranty. Moved to our first Morelo and again same issues, the alloys were the same model as the Flair and suffered the same issue. Morelo replaced under warranty and they were good for 18 months. I complained again and Morelo offered 50% contribution to replacement. On ordering my first Liner I opted for chrome wheel trims, would never have alloy wheels again.
The pictures are of the Morelo ones after 12 months of use.



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Could be worth thinking of steel 16"
Will ask my sons opinion.
He is an automotive painter by trade and a fanatic where cars are concerned.

 

[Happy Jack]

3500kg Ducato's are normally as standard 2000kg on the rear and 1850kg on the front.

Checked the legend under the bonnet.
Yes the front axle is 1850.
Rules out the Fox Viper.
Safety, Insurance and MOT implications.
Also, Fox being gravity cast = lighter density could explain why they havn't got a high enough load rating.
Supermetal are denser which gives higher load rating so I imagine they will be pressure cast ?
Defo now getting Supermetal Hammer but I want Silver so may have to wait as no stock anywhere at the moment.

 

[Two on Tour]

Could be worth thinking of steel 16"
Will ask my sons opinion.
He is an automotive painter by trade and a fanatic where cars are concerned.

My spare is a 16" steel which is in a carrier under our van, I have covered it with a wheel cover to keep the weather and road muck off it while its under there.
A nice cheap option at £6.40 off of Amazon.

Maypole MP94429 29-inch 4x4 Medium Wheel Cover

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[Happy Jack]

My spare is a 16" steel which is in a carrier under our van, I have covered it with a wheel cover to keep the weather and road muck off it while its under there.
A nice cheap option at £6.40 off of Amazon.

Maypole MP94429 29-inch 4x4 Medium Wheel Cover

Thanks two. Will look at that.
Also looking at possibility of all steel wheels and chrome wheel covers.
mPh son had very good knowledge of alloys and he can tell me how/if they can be kept in top notch condition.
All steel would if course be much cheaper.

 

[The joker]

Hi Joker.
Do they need to be TUV approved for insurers or is that just a good assurance that they are well manufactured.

TUV nice to have and a bit of assurance, but if you were going to uplate it helps the process. When I informed insurance they weren't really bothered about any of it, same with air-suspension and no increase in premium but on policy, always best to so they can't worm there way out on that bit

 

[h8ten]

I can't see from the thread if you are changing from steel to alloy or from one alloy to another and you may be aware of this already. If you are going from steel to alloy then you may well need new wheel nuts/bolts due to a difference in the shoulder angle.

 

[Lenny HB]

I can't see from the thread if you are changing from steel to alloy or from one alloy to another and you may be aware of this already. If you are going from steel to alloy then you may well need new wheel nuts/bolts due to a difference in the shoulder angle.

Shoulder angle is the same on Ducato.
Sometimes bolts for alloys are 2mm longer.

 

[Happy Jack]

TUV nice to have and a bit of assurance, but if you were going to uplate it helps the process. When I informed insurance they weren't really bothered about any of it, same with air-suspension and no increase in premium but on policy, always best to so they can't worm there way out on that bit

OK got that.
No need to up plate. When I weighbridged was at 3100 Kgs.
That was fully loaded with everything we would take and all tanks almost full to give a just about worst case scenario.
Even had the toilet cassette full of water.

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[Happy Jack]

Shoulder angle is the same on Ducato.
Sometimes bolts for alloys are 2mm longer.

Thought I'd mentioned that.
Yes going from 15" steel to 16" alloy, and yes thanks I did know new bolts are required.

 

[Simon G]

Interesting that Fox Viper doesn't appear on Fox Wheels website...! But Fox Opus would meet your load requirements. Fox are (mostly) UK manufactured according to Google. Also TUV, etc. approved. No interest beyond the general conversation as our Dreamer is on steels and would look nice with alloys once I've trashed the plastic trims

 

[Happy Jack]

Interesting that Fox Viper doesn't appear on Fox Wheels website...! But Fox Opus would meet your load requirements. Fox are (mostly) UK manufactured according to Google. Also TUV, etc. approved. No interest beyond the general conversation as our Dreamer is on steels and would look nice with alloys once I've trashed the plastic trims

Will have a look at the Fox Opus.

 

[splitfirebus]

A big plus for the Supermetal Hammer is they have a center bore of 71.1mm meaning the do not need a Spigot ring.

 

[Happy Jack]

Matt black for wheels or Silver, what do you think ???
See pic of van.

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[Happy Jack]

Interesting that Fox Viper doesn't appear on Fox Wheels website...! But Fox Opus would meet your load requirements. Fox are (mostly) UK manufactured according to Google. Also TUV, etc. approved. No interest beyond the general conversation as our Dreamer is on steels and would look nice with alloys once I've trashed the plastic trims

Saw it on Gebay, hadn't even thought of looking at Fox own website but will have a look.

 

[JimmE]

Matt black for wheels or Silver, what do you think ???
See pic of van.
View attachment 978092

Personally I’d say silver, but then I’m just not a fan of black wheels!

 

[Happy Jack]

Personally I’d say silver, but then I’m just not a fan of black wheels!

Same here JimmE.
That's why I got all the bumpers corners, rear barn doors step and main grill section colour coded.

 

[Happy Jack]

Interesting that Fox Viper doesn't appear on Fox Wheels website...! But Fox Opus would meet your load requirements. Fox are (mostly) UK manufactured according to Google. Also TUV, etc. approved. No interest beyond the general conversation as our Dreamer is on steels and would look nice with alloys once I've trashed the plastic trims

just had a look on Fix UK website.
Tried a Viper search and it does feature !

 

[Happy Jack]

just had a look on Fix UK website.
Tried a Viper search and it does feature !

FOX....spell corrector Argh.

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[Happy Jack]

Interesting that Fox Viper doesn't appear on Fox Wheels website...! But Fox Opus would meet your load requirements. Fox are (mostly) UK manufactured according to Google. Also TUV, etc. approved. No interest beyond the general conversation as our Dreamer is on steels and would look nice with alloys once I've trashed the plastic trims

Checked out the Opus, yes it looks good and load rating is 1200Kgs.
On the Fox website the Viper although shown, does not list it's load rating !, but I messaged the seller on EBay and he came back with 950Kgs which is underrated for Fiat Ducato.

 

[Happy Jack]

Just e-mailed Supermetal to see if they have an idea on when the silver hammer will be back in stock.

 

[gpat]

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I have never seen any aftermarket alloys that look at good as the Fiat ones. Especially the light chassis one.

I have considered getting a 15" as a spare for the 16" alloys. Wasn't 100% sure of the legality but if I think it through spacesavers are smaller diameter than normal wheels and tyres. A 15" spare would get you to the tyre shop I guess with no problem at all.

 

[Happy Jack]

I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I have never seen any aftermarket alloys that look at good as the Fiat ones. Especially the light chassis one.

I have considered getting a 15" as a spare for the 16" alloys. Wasn't 100% sure of the legality but if I think it through spacesavers are smaller diameter than normal wheels and tyres. A 15" spare would get you to the tyre shop I guess with no problem at all.

Yes they look good but would be fiddly to clean and maintain and also a lot more expensive.
15" spare is OK as a spare if your wheels are 1 6" .
Lots in the forum have mentioned that but I had it confirmed by my MOT garage.

 

[Happy Jack]

OK got that.
No need to up plate. When I weighbridged was at 3100 Kgs.
That was fully loaded with everything we would take and all tanks almost full to give a just about worst case scenario.
Even had the toilet cassette full of water.

PS.
Of course the weight in a cassette depends on whether there are any solids and whether they float or sink....arfarfarfarf.

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[garry55]

Why spoil the handling for the sake of a bit of bling? Steel wheels are lighter and stronger than alloys and don't suffer as much from the bead corrosion that alloys do. IMHO.