Alcohol and Wildcamping.

[dodfloss]

Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 4

"(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) above, a person shall be deemed not to have been in charge of a [F1mechanically propelled vehicle] if he proves that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving it so long as he remained unfit to drive through drink or drugs."

This provides a statutory defence against "in charge" if you were not intending to drive. However, you have to prove it. They do not need to prove the opposite to "all reasonable doubt" or anything, it is up to you to make the defence stick. There have been lots of suggestions as to how to prove it, such as fitting insulating screens/hiding the keys etc. Any of these is likely to be successful as a defence. Don't just sit in the driver's seat with a four pack with the keys in the ignition and the engine running to keep warm.

The defence covers roads and other public places, such as car parks. For genuinely private places with no public access there is no offence to defend against.

There are similar defences against Section 5 (in charge over the alcohol limit) and 5A (in charge with specified controlled drug over the limit).

It’s about common sense, I know it goes out of the window sometimes

 

[cmcardle75]

What happens if there is an emergency during the night and you need your keys?

That depends on the severity of the emergency. There is a general defence of "necessity" or "duress of circumstance" that may apply. However, the danger would have to be gravely severe (involving threat of death or greivous bodily injury) and no alternative course of action available. The defence would also only apply to any driving necessary to alleviate the situation. For example, if you parked on a bridge abutment that was in very immediate danger of collapsing into a swollen river and you reasonably believe this could happen in the next few seconds, you may have a defence for moving the vehicle if that would be quicker than waking the occupants and moving them on foot. You could only do so as far as needed to get the occupants and yourself to a place of safety. You could not do this just to save the vehicle, only the lives of the occupants or yourself.

If you just need your keys for something, that is fine. There are plenty of other indications you can use to prove your intention not to drive.

 

[nicholsong]

What happens if there is an emergency during the night and you need your keys?

You get the spare set out - the ones you 'forgot' to tell the police about.

 

[Boris7]

 

[7735]

With one notable exception,

View attachment 421112

I bet they haven’t got a television licence.

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[Brockley]

naughty boy

 

[PeteH]

I think there are 2 answers. Don`t Imbibe. Alternatively keep it low key and park under the radar.

Having said that I have regularly used Pub Location for overnight stops. Couple of beers and a meal. then retire. Blinds closed seats facing inward. keys, no where to be seen (well I know where they are in an emergency).

Lifes too short to worry about what the local plod are up to. Many are just happy to sit in a lay-by Texting the love of their life and waiting for the pension Or??????????.

 

[Boris7]

Its always a good idea to keep a spare key strapped in a hard to reach place in a water tight rf secure box under the vehicle, so when you loose yours your not stranded.

These two pieces of advise are both pretty useless in general....

But in exceptional circumstances when faced with issues they can both be real life savers, I’ve even been known to fit a bulldog wheel clamp and crook lock on my works van and leave the keys to these with Hotel reception and carry a vehicle key that doesn’t fit my van in my pocket, and the actual van keys in the clients hotel room.

 

[Brockley]

That depends on the severity of the emergency. There is a general defence of "necessity" or "duress of circumstance" that may apply. However, the danger would have to be gravely severe (involving threat of death or greivous bodily injury) and no alternative course of action available. The defence would also only apply to any driving necessary to alleviate the situation. For example, if you parked on a bridge abutment that was in very immediate danger of collapsing into a swollen river and you reasonably believe this could happen in the next few seconds, you may have a defence for moving the vehicle if that would be quicker than waking the occupants and moving them on foot. You could only do so as far as needed to get the occupants and yourself to a place of safety. You could not do this just to save the vehicle, only the lives of the occupants or yourself.

If you just need your keys for something, that is fine. There are plenty of other indications you can use to prove your intention not to drive.

So you actually know you’ve just passed the point of no return regarding ‘failing the bag’ and decide the sensible thing to do is lock your keys away in a time machine. You’re woken up by migrants trying to illegally enter your van but have no option to simply move on? Your cheap Chinese LiFePo4 batteries have just grown enough dendrites to short out but you have no option to move your potential time bomb away from harming other property?

You’re woken by the police and told to move to avoid an unforeseen natural weather disaster?

The severity of the emergency is always going to be the unknown quantity, but voluntarily immobilising your vehicle as a serious option to avoid the penalties of drink driving has got to be the most ridiculous thing you could ever do overnighting in motorhome. Isn’t it?

 

[Wildweasle]

I bet they haven’t got a television licence.

That's a thought, and about the only thing they would get nicked for, the most heinous crime one can commit

I bet they haven’t got a television licence.

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[Rudski01]

Ok forget the wild camping scenario, c&cc site keswick flooding as it often does, take it nobody drinks there then

 

[cmcardle75]

Your cheap Chinese LiFePo4 batteries have just grown enough dendrites to short out but you have no option to move your potential time bomb away from harming other property?

Cheap Chinese LiFePo4 batteries? Where! Let me have some!

I've not seen any under £700, which given the official headline commodity rate is $175/kWh, means someone is making a lot of money!

 

[Brockley]

Well that’s not my entire quote, but you’ve obviously done your homework regarding the lower end of the market and £700 is cheap compared to the more established and respected brands. I personally wouldn’t touch them.......yet! Come on Johnny B. Goodenough pull your finger out!

 

[steve69]

If they try to move you on - just say "I cannot drive now 'cos I am too drunk". problem solved

 

[two]

The important thing is to avoid drawing attention, and hence investigation, when wilding.
I’m sure that Mr Plod could choose from a number of different technicalities if he was intent on booking you.

I don’t think that locking the keys away would convince a jury, you could easily recover them whenever you chose to and how would you prove that there wasn’t a second set somewhere.

I can remember several occasions when we have found ourselves in an uncomfortable situation after settling down so deciding to move on instead. You may not intend to drive again until the next morning but you can never be certain of it.

The best way to avoid prosecution is not to drink at all when wilding.

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[Otter Spotter]

I take it the likes of Brit Stops especially those in the car parks of Public houses would also be included.

Not really, because the car park is technically private property and you are there with the permission of the landowner, hence why bobbies always park a short distance away when Wanting to catch a drink driver.

 

[Googlebot]

Not really, because the car park is technically private property and you are there with the permission of the landowner, hence why bobbies always park a short distance away when Wanting to catch a drink driver.

Not strictly true. If the car park has open public access such as a pub, then the road traffic act still applies.

 

[Langtoftlad]

Ok forget the wild camping scenario, c&cc site keswick flooding as it often does, take it nobody drinks there then

My experience of that was that the wardens gave you 24h early warning to move to a higher pitch... any anycase, you're on private land.

 

[Minxy]

We have a small safe under the front bench seat and the keys are placed in it and the timer set not to allow the safe to opened until X o'clock. therefore we have no means to start the engine, this is also good in the case of hijack.

My experience of that was that the wardens gave you 24h early warning to move to a higher pitch... any anycase, you're on private land.

The issue isn't just about drinking and being over the limit but the fact that your keys are inaccessible so you can't physically drive your MH as you've locked your keys away (thus no-one who hasn't had a drink can move it either). You don't always get 24 hours notice - I'm sure I've read on here of some who've had knocks in the middle of the night telling them to move quickly as they don't have much time before their pitch will be inundated.

 

[Minxy]

Bloody echo in here.

Really? Really? Really? Really? Really? Really?

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[Sapper520]

My wife doesn’t drink, problem solved.

 

[cmcardle75]

My wife doesn’t drink, problem solved.

Mine barely does. But she doesn't have a C1 licence....

 

[Jim]

Not really, because the car park is technically private property

As far as the law is concerned, its likely to be public and the carpark is the best place to catch drunk drivers,

 

[Otter Spotter]

As far as the law is concerned, its likely to be public and the carpark is the best place to catch drunk drivers,

But most officers will not arrest until they have evidence of intent to or actual driving. So it is easier to wait until the driver comes off the Car park unless there is an obvious danger to others.

 

[Moonchild]

I take it the likes of Brit Stops especially those in the car parks of Public houses would also be included.

I think, and I might be wrong, a pub car park is a public space BUT after closing time, it reverts to a ‘private’ place meaning you can’t be charged for drunk in charge, etc
It also raises the point of regular campsites - are they public places?
I don’t think there is a definitive answer to the question.

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[cmcardle75]

I think, and I might be wrong, a pub car park is a public space BUT after closing time, it reverts to a ‘private’ place meaning you can’t be charged for drunk in charge, etc
It also raises the point of regular campsites - are they public places?
I don’t think there is a definitive answer to the question.

I was under the impression that "public" for driving laws (particularly drunk driving) was pretty widely interpreted. I suspect the answer is in case law, though, rather than statute. To be safely considered private, you'll need a locked gate and assurances that no unaffiliated person can be lawfully present. If you went burning round a campsite off your face and slid into someone's child, I suspect "it was private land, it's allowed" won't get you off the charges.

 

[Brockley]

Interpretation & Intent.

 

[Rudski01]

My experience of that was that the wardens gave you 24h early warning to move to a higher pitch... any anycase, you're on private land.

No they move you to Booths car park and the coach park behind it, especially if the river bursts it’s banks behind the site like the night we got evacuated at 2 am In February just gone.

 

[Catpirate]

If you are on private property i.e a Britstop the police have no jurisdiction, just do not leave until under the limit

 

[kevenh]

If you are on private property i.e a Britstop the police have no jurisdiction, just do not leave until under the limit

The pub car park thing comes up a lot.
Someone at MHF chatted with a lawyer & gathered police info for a doc in our resources.
Pub car parks are private but there's a public invitation to attend there so the car park is only safely private outside of drinking hours - I hope I recounted that part of the info right.

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