Alcohol and Wildcamping.

[Puddleduck]

All land belongs to someone, but yes agree. However, how many have been asked by police for a breath test ? bear in mind, in Scotland it's virtually zero limit.

Martin has been stopped during a Christmas crack-down one year. He was on his way home from Newcastle having picked up daughter from the railway station.

"Good evening Sir."

"Good evening Officer"

"You haven't done anything wrong as far as we are aware. You have been stopped as part of our random D&D campaign (not sure of the wording used) and I'd like to ask you where you have come from and where you are going to. You have no obligation to answer."

"Nothing to hide Officer. I've just been down to Newcastle to collect my daughter from the railway station and we are now on our way back to our house at Puddle Mansion."

"You've come a long way Sir. I won't detain you any longer. Safe journey."

No breath test (would have been negative) and all very polite.

As I don't drink alcohol and Martin has been advised to avoid it it isn't a concern for us but we are aware that other people may inadvertently fall foul of the law.

Someone I know was pulled over the morning after a session. He lost his license and his job.

 

[bigtwin]

You're right, but it is easier to explain BritStops principles whilst in a Pub Car Park, than it is to say honest I wasn't going to drive now or first thing in the morning before the carpark / lay-by gets busy again. Between closing time and opening time, the pub carpark is private property as there can be no expectation of the public using the carpark.

If you are off the road on private land, then why would they be bothered if you have a drink ?

If they can do this then they could do the same in your garden if you have keys in your pocket with car on drive ?

If the location is accessible to the public (as a pub car park is (irrespective of opening hours)) then you may find yourself a candidate under the drink drive laws. However, all of the defence related arguments presented elsewhere in this thread will still apply.

Ian

 

[dodfloss]

Sounds sensible Lenny. Unfortunately I know several people who just had the “1” and sadly were over the limit.

One pint and over the limit, was it whiskey?

 

[poppycamper]

One pint and over the limit, was it whiskey?

Or in Scotland????

 

[Jim]

One pint and over the limit, was it whiskey?

Not impossible. A small person and strong beer, could easily be over after just one pint


Unfortunately, DD is a law you can break without knowing.

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[Ernesto]

I think theres a danger of some people over-thinking this. Unless provoked by some smart backchat, and usual provisos of not parked illegally etc etc apply, then I can't imagine any police officer being in the slightest interested in trying to prosecute a motorhomer in this situation.
All that paperwork.... and the magistrate likely to apply common sense and throw it out, plus the negative publicity....?
In this case, they really do have bigger and more important things to worry about!

 

[dodfloss]

Not impossible. A small person and strong beer, could easily be over after just one pint


Unfortunately, DD is a law you can break without knowing.

Most beers have an alcohol strength of 3-5% , even a small person would be extremely unlucky to be over the limit, I kn ow most people when asked by police, how many have you had say just one , but really have had more .

 

[Jim]

All that paperwork.... and the magistrate likely to apply common sense and throw it out, plus the negative publicity....?

In my experience, that's often the job they'll take on

 

[Ernesto]

We should apply the Motorhome Fun Sniff Test... a bit like with gassing stories ....

Has anyone on the forum reading this, ever been breathalysed in their van, whilst wild camping (or tame camping even)....just after being very polite to a copper?

I'll start - never. Been asked to blow for a bulb out, and after some idiot rear-ended me on the motorway (at 10am in the morning - checking for night-before drinks as others have said )

 

[Boris7]

I recently had a conversation with a fellow 'motorhomer' who informed me it was unlawful to consume alcohol in your motorhome or return to your motorhome with drink consumed if you are wild camping in a majority of locations. He tells me you are technically in-charge of the vehicle and could be prosecuted. Is he correct? I know there will be plenty of opinion but it would be nice to hear from a legal eagle on the forum.

That exactly right, the resolve is a simple one (as recommended by the RHA International group), Use a timed safe, which is a good idea anyway.

We have a small safe under the front bench seat and the keys are placed in it and the timer set not to allow the safe to opened until X o'clock. therefore we have no means to start the engine, this is also good in the case of hijack.

Some years ago the Police in Leicestershire (I think) actually started enforcing the rule by waking truck drivers, motorhome drivers, caravaners etc and breath testing them, also saw someone nicked for this in Scotland in July this year, although it was actually their other behaviour that bought plod to the Loch side parking area and no-one else was breath tested.

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[kevenh]

If the location is accessible to the public (as a pub car park is (irrespective of opening hours)) then you may find yourself a candidate under the drink drive laws.

From MHF resources on the subject, a pub car park is only considered public for opening hours. & that's because it's private property but with a public invite to attend the venue.
Out of hours you'd have private business being there.
The resource doc has some feedback on the polices' opinion on what they'd do too.

 

[Stealaway]

There was a recent poll on a Facebook motorhome owners page asking if you had been moved on by the police. There was maybe a hundred replies - not one person was ever asked to move on by the police.
A couple of replies stated that were asked by a warden, who was told it wasn't possible as they had had a drink - there has never been an issue.

 

[Ernesto]

That exactly right, the resolve is a simple one (as recommended by the RHA International group), Use a timed safe, which is a good idea anyway.

We have a small safe under the front bench seat and the keys are placed in it and the timer set not to allow the safe to opened until X o'clock. therefore we have no means to start the engine, this is also good in the case of hijack.

Some years ago the Police in Leicestershire (I think) actually started enforcing the rule by waking truck drivers, motorhome drivers, caravaners etc and breath testing them, also saw someone nicked for this in Scotland in July this year, although it was actually their other behaviour that bought plod to the Loch side parking area and no-one else was breath tested.

I wonder if it was just a shot across the bows by Leics plod ? I dont know how with motorhomers, they could prove you weren't intending to stay where you were all day ?

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Who is the driver? the drunk lying on the floor or the wife with the rolling pin?either can drive but one cannot

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Who is the driver the drunk lying on the floor or the wife with the rolling pin?either can drive but one cannot

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[GWAYGWAY]

Bloody echo in here.

 

[frogijock]

Regarding parking in a pub car park, for you not to be prosecuted the vehicle should be parked behind closed gates, then you are deemed to be on private land, as according to the police, the public has access to an open car park, therefor it is classed as public land under the law regarding drunk in charge of a motor vehicle, it would really be an extremely naughty police officer who would charge you

 

[Brockley]

Penalties for DUI are a tad more severe on the Isle of Man. Until fairly recently anyone found twice over the limit or more would be remanded immediately into police custody overnight and then put before before the deputy High Bailiff the next morning (unless it was a weekend or bank holiday, in which case whenever the dep was available), found guilty then given 4-8 weeks in prison.

This can still happen if there is the slightest hint of aggravation.

I’ve discussed drinking while motorhoming with various cops on the island and they see it very much a matter of interpretation and intent. Any copper with common sense that seeing screens up, chairs turned around, keys hidden away etc etc Would interpret no intent to drive and leave well alone.

Even a shiny cop angling to try it on would be advised by their sergeant not to bother.

All this in the land of ‘hang em and flog em’, so I cant see it being much different in the UK.

Unless of course someone knows otherwise?

 

[Brockley]

That exactly right, the resolve is a simple one (as recommended by the RHA International group), Use a timed safe, which is a good idea anyway.

We have a small safe under the front bench seat and the keys are placed in it and the timer set not to allow the safe to opened until X o'clock. therefore we have no means to start the engine, this is also good in the case of hijack.

Some years ago the Police in Leicestershire (I think) actually started enforcing the rule by waking truck drivers, motorhome drivers, caravaners etc and breath testing them, also saw someone nicked for this in Scotland in July this year, although it was actually their other behaviour that bought plod to the Loch side parking area and no-one else was breath tested.

What happens if there is an emergency during the night and you need your keys?

 

[Langtoftlad]

I'm amazed that anyone thinks plod has the time & resources to go knocking at a motorhomers' door when they're legally parked just on the offchance they maybe over the limit.

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[iandsm]

I recently had a conversation with a fellow 'motorhomer' who informed me it was unlawful to consume alcohol in your motorhome or return to your motorhome with drink consumed if you are wild camping in a majority of locations. He tells me you are technically in-charge of the vehicle and could be prosecuted. Is he correct? I know there will be plenty of opinion but it would be nice to hear from a legal eagle on the forum.

Your fellow motorhomes was talking rubbish.

 

[gus-lopez]

"Give them any lip and the game changes." As it should !

Why?
If they are polite ,please & thank you then I would be the same.

 

[steve 6644]

Just tell em to F%%k off, your self inebriating, Hic. .

Er, perhaps not.

 

[Wildweasle]

gus I mean if one is abusive or lippy to a police officer they should expect a response that befits the occasion

 

[XxAnthxX]

Not a motor homing incident, but I remember my uncle being charged with being drunk and in charge of a motor vehicle.

He was drunk, he was legally parked, he opened the back door a club mini bus to put a large bag of boxing gloves and head guards in that had been loaned out from his boxing club for a boxing show. He never entered the vehicle but he had the key, opened the door and was in charge of the vehicle and was charged as such.

His intention after parking and having a drink was to be dropped off by the guy returning the equipment.

However knowing him, his rapour with the police will probably have left a bit to be desired

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[Jim]

That article is summed up in their advertising line here

'As you can see, this type of case is far from straight forward and requires a detailed knowledge of the law. Thankfully we can help'

Not a lot of help at defining the law.

My thoughts to. The aim of that page is the get you to hire a solicitor

 

[Sapper520]

I know of a Police Officer who came across a young lad sleeping it off in his car. Not sure if the lad intended to drive, could have arrested him for which he probably would have got convicted and given a criminal record.

Took his keys off him, sent him on his way (walking to the taxi rank), left the keys in the Front Office of the Station, with strict instructions not to return them to owner until after 3pm the next day.

No Police Officer is going to bother the owner of a legally parked motorhome, who’s occupants are not bothering anyone. They might feel the need to do a welfare check, for some reason, unlikely to be for anything else.

 

[Rudski01]

buy one of these, tell the officer your well aware your pissed and can’t find your keys anyhow

To be fair I like a drink or Two when away and always use this as a precaution, and even if it says I’m ok and I don’t feel it I will wait until I do.

 

[Boris7]

What happens if there is an emergency during the night and you need your keys?

If your drinking you have to make a choice, If your worried about an emergency then don't drink.

 

[cmcardle75]

Road Traffic Act 1988 Section 4

"(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) above, a person shall be deemed not to have been in charge of a [F1mechanically propelled vehicle] if he proves that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving it so long as he remained unfit to drive through drink or drugs."

This provides a statutory defence against "in charge" if you were not intending to drive. However, you have to prove it. They do not need to prove the opposite to "all reasonable doubt" or anything, it is up to you to make the defence stick. There have been lots of suggestions as to how to prove it, such as fitting insulating screens/hiding the keys etc. Any of these is likely to be successful as a defence. Don't just sit in the driver's seat with a four pack with the keys in the ignition and the engine running to keep warm.

The defence covers roads and other public places, such as car parks. For genuinely private places with no public access there is no offence to defend against.

There are similar defences against Section 5 (in charge over the alcohol limit) and 5A (in charge with specified controlled drug over the limit).

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