100AH Lithium Battery £500

[CazPaul]

Hi,

We see lithium and others within the industry see there will still be a place for lead acid AGM and lithium but not gel, lithium makes the technology redundant, the large manufacturers we speak to have stopped proposing it as an option and have stopped development a long time ago.

It’s heading for the history books, we never liked gel as AGM was much better, cheaper and more reliable!

Not according to Hymer they weren't, they stopped AGM after constant quick failures
Our x2 140ah gels are original fit and now into there 15th year and still going strong.

 

[Lenny HB]

It’s heading for the history books, we never liked gel as AGM was much better, cheaper and more reliable!

IMO AGM are totally useless for leisure use, in my last van they both failed in 18 months I replaced them with Gel, in the current van didn't bother with the standard AGM I fitted Gels so much more reliable.
Only need to look on the German Motorhome forums to see how unreliable AGM's are. Also car manufacturers (BMW, Merc etc.) are ditching AGM's due to reliability problems.

 

[Jim]

IMO AGM are totally useless for leisure use, in my last van they both failed in 18 months

That was my experience with AGM too, even after using a special AGM charging module from day 1. I would never recommend AGM to anyone.

 

[CazPaul]

IMO AGM are totally useless for leisure use, in my last van they both failed in 18 months I replaced them with Gel, in the current van didn't bother with the standard AGM I fitted Gels so much more reliable.
Only need to look on the German Motorhome forums to see how unreliable AGM's are. Also car manufacturers (BMW, Merc etc.) are ditching Gels due to reliability problems.

Do you mean ditching AGM?

 

[Lenny HB]

Do you mean ditching AGM?

Of course, edited.

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[bigtwin]

Hi,

We see lithium and others within the industry see there will still be a place for lead acid AGM and lithium but not gel, lithium makes the technology redundant, the large manufacturers we speak to have stopped proposing it as an option and have stopped development a long time ago.

It’s heading for the history books, we never liked gel as AGM was much better, cheaper and more reliable!

One of our gels has just clocked up 13 years (and a second is on 10 years) and have heard no end of problems with AGMs so somewhat puzzled by your take on gels.

Ian

 

[Armytwowheels]

We have bitten the bullet and so has our bank account. 2 x 100ah's on the way to the MiL's. Possibly a 3rd one to come once we have our heads around the maintenance and charging.

If these pan out as promised we may have a really lovely, 2000kw Honda generator for sale!

 

[Neilfg]

We have bitten the bullet and so has our bank account. 2 x 100ah's on the way to the MiL's. Possibly a 3rd one to come once we have our heads around the maintenance and charging.

If these pan out as promised we may have a really lovely, 2000kw Honda generator for sale!

What chargers and display/monitor are you going to use?

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

What chargers and display/monitor are you going to use?

I’m curious about this too, based on info in this thread we should be able to replace 2 Varta LFD90 batteries (combined weight of circa 50kg?) with just one of these 100AH lithium batteries for a considerable weight saving.
However, I’m clueless as to what else needs to be changed/upgraded in terms of charger, solar etc.

 

[Pausim]

I’m curious about this too, based on info in this thread we should be able to replace 2 Varta LFD90 batteries (combined weight of circa 50kg?) with just one of these 100AH lithium batteries for a considerable weight saving.
However, I’m clueless as to what else needs to be changed/upgraded in terms of charger, solar etc.

I have a 100Ah LiFePO4. It has been running my CPAP all night and is still delivering 12.8V. My battery monitor shows -27Ah with 73% remaining charge. When I drive off later this morning my B2B will fully recharge it in about 45 minutes.

Most modern mains chargers seem to be ok but it doesn't matter too much if the mains charging is less than 100% when you are on an ehu. What matters is that when you arrive somewhere where there is no mains the battery is full, hence the B2B.

I chose a Victron VCC1212-45 B2B because it has a range of LiFePO4 profiles and also has a range of settings to make it compatible with my Electroblock. Not all B2Bs have such a good range of settings. I also chose a Victron BMV battery monitor because it has a range of settings that include the greater charge efficiency and lower Peukerts factor needed with LiFePO4. A battery monitor without these adjustments will give you a fair approximation of the state of charge but my thinking was why not get one that does the job properly.

Currently I have a Sterling mains charger with LiFePO4 profiles but for the reasons given above will not bother moving it to my new motorhome. I will fit the B2B and battery monitor. Hope my user experience is helpful.

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[Armytwowheels]

We will go with the votronic battery monitor. We already have the votronic solar mppt solar controller. Also back at base we have a sterling B to B charger, but need to check compatibility. We don't have the paperwork with us (currently in France) and cannot remember the model number.

The batteries we have ordered come with a Victron battery charger but are not sure if we will need this, as our existing one may be good enough. We will however, check with Battery Megastore if the supplied charger is big enough for our needs.

So, apart from making sure what we already have is compatible, we only need to get the battery monitor.......We think!

 

[thebriars]

Interesting leaflet from a lithium battery manufacturer:

https://ceb8596f236225acd007-8e9532....rackcdn.com/misc/Relion_5ReasonstoInvest.pdf

"Most LiFePO4 batteries last five years or longer. For context, the average lead acid battery only makes it to two years due to chemical degradation. "

Hmmm.

 

[GPW]

Mine came with an AGM, I fully expect to change it to a wet or Gel in the next couple of years. Unless they are gently charged to 14.7-15V on a regular basis they don't last. When driving generally 14.4 is the most you can expect.

I have the same AGM type in two scooters, one scooter makes it last for ever, the other eats them every 2 years, I suspect it never quite gives them enough voltage.

 

[TheDogMan]

We changed to lithium a few months ago, USA made transporter energy 100 ah ones with a 10 year warranty. my van came with the inverter connected to six mains sockets and 2 televisions also connected to the inverter, they are brilliant, I have 240w solar and we charge up ipads, vaping cigs. telephones and us a 650w electric kettle and 700w hairdryer, I am well pleased, the only thing I need hook up for really is the microwave. it will be interesting to see what they are like in the long term

 

[hilldweller]

We picked up a new site sponsor/advertiser last week, I received the advert today. Look at that, a 100AH battery for £500 when using promo code MHFUN.

Of course, thanks to two other current threads we do have to ask, how many of these have burst into flames ?

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[TheAleMan]

Of course, thanks to two other current threads we do have to ask, how many of these have burst into flames ?

Good shout Hilldweller..something I would like to know, especially as we're thinking of having a big bank built into an upcoming new van.

 

[hilldweller]

as we're thinking of having a big bank built into an upcoming new van.

That raises another question, "how do you charge up this big bank" ? Charging is just as important as discharging.

It was a bit tongue-in-cheek, I fully expect the answer to be Zero.

 

[klaatu]

Aren't the motorhome batteries a completely different technology to the ones which can apparently spontaneously combust, they just happen to use Lithium in some form? Not an expert, just asking...

 

[hilldweller]

Aren't the motorhome batteries a completely different technology to the ones which can apparently spontaneously combust

Not at all. They could be the very same cells or cell technology.

 

[Jim]

how many of these have burst into flames ?

All batteries have some inherent dangers, but LiFeP04 as I understand it, catching fire isn’t one of them. Cleverer people than me (I know, not hard) who are not selling them claim they are the safest type of Lithium as they don’t overheat. You can crash and puncture them and they won’t burst into flames.

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[Pausim]

Aren't the motorhome batteries a completely different technology to the ones which can apparently spontaneously combust, they just happen to use Lithium in some form? Not an expert, just asking...

Yes they are different. Li leisure batteries use LiFePO4 cells which have completely different chemistries and characteristics than those used in electric cars, mobile phones and Boeing aeroplanes. Other different types include Li-cobalt, Li-manganese and Li-nickel. None of the different types have the same cells or cell technology.

 

[eddie]

Conventional lead acid batteries are not without risk, so whilst many think, (erroneously in my opinion) that that there are "issues" with Lithium batteries, safety isn't one.

Cost is the only real negative

They (Lithium batteries) are lighter, typically half the weight
They give you typically twice the output as you can deeply discharge them
They take a charge really well so will suck up solar as fast as it's produced

They are expensive, but then not everyone makes the cost the primary decision making factor. If we did, we'd all be driving round with tents as its "cheaper"

 

[Jaws]

Sadly I cannot fit them without changing the charger
The Sargent barely reaches 14v

 

[BatteryMegaUK]

Not according to Hymer they weren't, they stopped AGM after constant quick failures
Our x2 140ah gels are original fit and now into there 15th year and still going strong.

I doubt the failed AGM Hymer fitted was actually faulty product, people don’t realise that AGM is none recoverable if taken to low and should only be fitted where there is low voltage protection and recharges are happening at least every 4 -5 weeks.

AGM (decent pure lead AGM) out performs GEL which is why the world militaries fit them and why start stop cars have AGM and not GEL.

Some many batteries “fail” but 99% of the time is because they have not been treated correctly.

This forum is a great place for people to help each other understand about whatever batteries they pick and the best way to look after them, batteries are a chemical reaction and sometimes this is forgotten, they must be treated in a specific way otherwise the chemical reaction will not have the desired performance.

 

[CazPaul]

I doubt the failed AGM Hymer fitted was actually faulty product, people don’t realise that AGM is none recoverable if taken to low and should only be fitted where there is low voltage protection and recharges are happening at least every 4 -5 weeks.

AGM (decent pure lead AGM) out performs GEL which is why the world militaries fit them and why start stop cars have AGM and not GEL.

Some many batteries “fail” but 99% of the time is because they have not been treated correctly.

This forum is a great place for people to help each other understand about whatever batteries they pick and the best way to look after them, batteries are a chemical reaction and sometimes this is forgotten, they must be treated in a specific way otherwise the chemical reaction will not have the desired performance.

Well a lot on here seem to prefer gel to AGM so that tells you something surely especially for motorhome use which is what everybody here wants a good battery for
My gels are in their 15th year so that will do nicely.

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[funflair]

Well a lot on here seem to prefer gel to AGM so that tells you something surely especially for motorhome use which is what everybody here wants a good battery for
My gels are in their 15th year so that will do nicely.

I think you are right Paul, I am sure that most of the Gel's that Hymer fitted before they changed to AGM are still perfectly OK whilst the AGM's they replaced them with will have been replaced often with Gel but at the customers expense this time.

Whatever the reason for failure they don't seem as suited to Motorhome power supply as Gel and I am sure they would be cheaper.

Martin

 

[andycap63]

I'm considering replacing my ailing 3 x 160ah agm's with lithiums as I've posted elsewhere on here.
I understand a B2B charging device is required but unsure if this works alongside the existing split relay charging system or does it replace it? i.e. would I need to disable the existing alternator charging system shown below?

Andy.

 

[Pausim]

You might need some more substantial wiring, to match the higher charging rate. The Votronic one I am using shows a separator relay in the wiring diagram, so you might be able to reuse parts of your existing system.

 

[funflair]

Just seen that label 12V 70A so that might work quite nicely with lithium sucking the power up, the wiring should be OK as B1 and B2 both connect at the DS box which looks like it’s next to the battery separator, I do know that our CBE system put in different voltage for the starter and habitation batteries and our jab are Gel so will this be OK for lithium?, if you were to replace this with B2B I wouldn’t know how but could be tempted to give the standard set up a go first.

Martin

 

[Pausim]

Best check the relay and fuses and wiring can handle 70A. On my Hymer I had to limit the output of the B2B to match the existing set up.

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