100AH Lithium Battery £500

Stroppy Bird said:
So what you’re saying is that if I change the switch on my electroblock to wet (currently set to gel) then I would be able to drop one of these in and no further adjustments made?

Due to space constraints it means I would be able to increase capacity which would be beneficial as we’re mainly off season off grid sorts.
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The advice given by Relion for their LiFePO4 batteries is to use the gel/agm setting not the wet one:

2) Can I use my existing lead-acid battery charger (Wet, AGM or Gel) to charge RELiON lithium iron phosphate batteries?
Most likely, yes. Our lithium batteries are very charger-friendly. Most chargers today have a lithium charge profile, which is what we recommend using. AGM or gel charge profile chargers will work with our batteries. We do not recommend the use of a flooded charge profile with our batteries.
 
Gromett said:
thebriars Sorry to keep marking your posts with funny. But it appears you don't understand Li batteries?

Li batteries as others have been said give you roughly 2X the "usable" capacity of Pb battery. The lifespan of an Li battery varies from 2-5 times as long as a Pb battery depending on use cases.
They are a lot lighter so gives you more payload in a 3.5T van.

However, this is their key advantage in my view... The lack of Peukart losses. The sheer efficiency in charging of an Li battery makes offgrid use brilliant. You will get around 1.2-1.4 More charge from your solar panels and they will charge faster. The is NO 3 or 4 stage charging. It is a simply constant current charge moving to constant voltage. The absorption stage is totally missing.

When you put charge rate, capacity and number of FULL cycles together an Li battery whoops the Pb battery hard. The only question is... Is the up front investment worth it for your use case.
If you only go away for odd weekends, with a few weeks main holidays and are always on a campsite with hookup then stick with lead.
If you are going away for 2-6 week runs and mainly off hookup and relying on solar then Li is well worth the look.

If you are fulltime then Li is a no brainer. The more you use your battery the more Li becomes cost effective and useful.

PS: One final advantage of Li batteries. The voltage doesn't sag when current is drawn and the voltage is fairly constant across the charge range. This means you will no longer be able to tell the state of charge by how hard the water comes out of your shower head... Your lights don't dim when a high power device is running. plus much more.
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That saved me some typing. Couldn't agree more :)

As someone who needs a lot of battery power (I use around 1.3kwh per day), LiFePO4 has been a game changer. Just the size and weight of equivalent lead acid power would have been prohibitive for our needs, but it's the charging efficiency that has made the biggest difference.

The voltage sag is a good point as well. Makes a huge difference when powering a Tassimo via an inverter :)

I don't think LiFePO4 is right for a lot of people. But for those of us that use a lot of power and need to replace it quickly, it's great to have. We had 400Ah of lead acid before and constantly monitored the voltage, sometimes having to decide between powering the fridge or PC. Now we have 400Ah of LiFePO4 and don't think about it.

£500 looks a great price if literally a nice and simple drop in replacement?

I've not read the info on them as I doubt I'll be in the market for new batteries in the next decade :)
 
Gromett said:
thebriars Sorry to keep marking your posts with funny. But it appears you don't understand Li batteries?
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You are full timing, a very specialist use. Most of us are not. As for not understanding lithium batteries, I probably have 20+ at home used regularly over the last 5-10 years. I probably know a great deal more than you, especially as I have full intelligent charging which shows me exactly how much charge is being put in at any time plus the total charge, and the voltage of each cell. Add to that as every battery is used, its actual use is recorded in real time (every second if I wish) giving readings of current, voltage, power and consumption. Most of my lithium batteries last 3 to 4 years with careful use and charging so that I never exceed the battery parameters. That must say something.

Lets ignore all the wonderful blurb about lithium batteries (most of which comes from solar panel sites which have very different requirements to most motorhomers), and consider a few other things. Are each of the cells in your batteries regularly balanced? From experience, balancing takes longer than the actual charging. If not then you will only get the output of the lowest cell. Usually with lithium batteries one cell will fail long before the rest, its internal resistance rises, and the whole battery capacity drops. I doubt that factor is quoted when giving lifespan.

Who needs to watch the shower pressure these days to see the state of charge of the battery? Apart from the battery monitor in the van, I also get a far more accurate Bluetooth reading on my phone.
 
thebriars said:
As for not understanding lithium batteries, I probably have 20+ at home used regularly over the last 5-10 years.
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Are you talking about LIfePO4 batteries or perhaps one of the other types such as Lithium-Cobalt Oxide or Lithium-Manganese Oxide? They all have very different chemistries, performance and characteristics. This discussion is principally about LiFePO4, the type used for leisure batteries and medical equipment, not the types usually used in phones, electric cars or modelling. Just checking because it would be a shame if we were talking at crossed purposes about entirely different batteries.
 
M
thebriars said:
As I pointed out above, this simply is not true. Of course you can discharge a lead acid battery below 50%. Yes you reduce the life of the battery, but you will also reduce the life of a lithium battery discharging it that low. Generally a lead acid battery lasts me over 5 years anyway.
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My lithium mobile phone battery goes to zero 2 or 3 times a week, but still takes as long to get there when recharged as it did when new!

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Pausim said:
Are you talking about LIfePO4 batteries or perhaps one of the other types such as Lithium-Cobalt Oxide or Lithium-Manganese Oxide? They all have very different chemistries, performance and characteristics. This discussion is principally about LiFePO4, the type used for leisure batteries and medical equipment, not the types usually used in phones, electric cars or modelling. Just checking because it would be a shame if we were talking at crossed purposes about entirely different batteries.
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I am well aware you are talking about LIfePO4.
 
Because they are relatively new in motorhome installation terms it will be interesting to see how many years they last on average for people, that alone will determine the value so thebriars has made some good points.
 
Onemanandhisdog said:
M


My lithium mobile phone battery goes to zero 2 or 3 times a week, but still takes as long to get there when recharged as it did when new!
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I bet it never goes to zero, the phone shuts down before it gets that low. There are circuits built into the phone to protect the battery.
 
Pausim said:
Yes but are the 20+ you have at home LiFePO4 because this seems to be what you base your “I probably know a great deal more than you” statement on.
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Robert Clark said:
Not statistically accurate me thinks
More based on inflated opinion rather than fact
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I suggest you read back to my original , Gromett said "But it appears you don't understand Li batteries? " He didn't refer to just LiFePO4 batteries, but lithium batteries .
 
A final point on this. Even with a MHmadness discount £500 is an awful lot to pay for a battery with only a 2 year warranty. If they are that good and that bullet proof, then why not a much longer warranty?
 
Stroppy Bird said:
So what you’re saying is that if I change the switch on my electroblock to wet (currently set to gel) then I would be able to drop one of these in and no further adjustments made?

Due to space constraints it means I would be able to increase capacity which would be beneficial as we’re mainly off season off grid sorts.
Click to expand...
That is my understanding, However, Please check with the supplier/manufacturer that they have the relevant control circuitry inside the battery case. But check which setting they recommend.
 
Jim said:
Battery Megastore have just offered up a 100AH battery in a free to enter prize draw. I should get the competition up later this evening.
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Hi Jim

Just wondered if you put up the details of this Competition or have I missed it, I have tried searching and not been able to find it
 
Not batting for either side ... but this seems a very good alternative perspective on Lithium batteries and Motorhomes, to consider before making a call. I have found these guys very helpful and knowledgeable...

Lithium Battery Technology Does Not Work For All Motorhomes

Lithium technology Batteries
www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk
 
Ernesto said:
Not batting for either side ... but this seems a very good alternative perspective on Lithium batteries and Motorhomes, to consider before making a call. I have found these guys very helpful and knowledgeable...

Lithium Battery Technology Does Not Work For All Motorhomes

Lithium technology Batteries
www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk
Click to expand...
He also doesn't like Inverters. Doesn't know much about those either! That doesn't stop him writing about them though, '\https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.u...rhome-Matters/Inverters-Is-yours-safe-/47943/
 
Unfortunately, if you look at the homepage on the his website, it would appear he is now very ill :(
 
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Reactions: DBK
Jim said:
He also doesn't like Inverters. Doesn't know much about those either! That doesn't stop him writing about them though, :Dhttps://forums.outandaboutlive.co.u...rhome-Matters/Inverters-Is-yours-safe-/47943/
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Interesting thread. :) I suspect he's also wrong about 260 volts or whatever it was. A domestic 240 volt supply has peak voltages well above 240 but when you put a voltmeter on it reads 240 because it is displaying the root mean square (rms) voltage. I suspect a typical voltmeter put on a quasi-sine wave inverter could get a little confused and give a misleading reading.

Edit: Just seen the posts above. :(
 
Ernesto said:
Not batting for either side ... but this seems a very good alternative perspective on Lithium batteries and Motorhomes, to consider before making a call. I have found these guys very helpful and knowledgeable...

Lithium Battery Technology Does Not Work For All Motorhomes

Lithium technology Batteries
www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk
Click to expand...
The article is about lithium ion batteries, which is the generic term for all types of lithium batteries. There are several different types such as lithium cobalt oxide, lithium manganese oxide, lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide and lithium iron phosphate.

I can see how ion and iron could be confused but they are very different, an ion is a charged atom or molecule and iron is a metal element known by the symbol Fe.

The life cycle figures given in the article do not apply to the lithium iron/LiFePO4 batteries sold for leisure use and neither do the references to fire risk.

.
 
thebriars said:
A final point on this. Even with a MHmadness discount £500 is an awful lot to pay for a battery with only a 2 year warranty. If they are that good and that bullet proof, then why not a much longer warranty?
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We have bought L ion batteries for Sue's disability scooter with a 5 year warranty.

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At this price..... .seriously thinking about fitting 2 to our new Campscout.

Still getting acquainted with our 2-week old new MoHo. Because of the compressor-only fridge I feel somewhat limited in off-grid use with only one leisure battery. During the recent Edinburgh Rally, with the 150 watt solar panel fitted, the battery maintained a healthy charge for the first 4 days, but on day 5 (with heavy cloud cover) the voltage was dropping to a level where I felt it necessary to move to a site with EHU.

I have a second leisure battery to fit and this will obviously extend the time without EHU, but have not yet had time to fit as the place for it (next to the supplied leisure battery) requires removing the Driver's seat. If I am going to have to do this, I am tempted to fit 2 new Lithium Batteries - not just for the extra storage capacity, but also for the weight saving. We went to a weighbridge when loaded for our first trip out and found (with Wife and me on board, full water, full 2xGaslow, full diesel) we only had 20 kg remaining to reach the 3,500 kg limit. (Could get the vehicle up-plated, but doubt SWMBO will regain C1 with health restrictions)…….. so any payload gain is important for us.

Obviously before going ahead with Lithium replacement batteries, I need to confirm that the are "plug & play" i.e. an easy swop, without having to modify other charging kit etc. I am also concerned about the insurance issues mentioned by eddievanbitz in an earlier thread and the suitability of lithium batteries for road vehicle use. In an earlier thread Jim mentioned that he had taken this up with the Vehicle Certification Agency:

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Sorry, another Lithium battery thread

@eddievanbitz, spoke with your guys at the Nec show about upgrading my Ih to lithium, but as ever forgot to write down the advice at the time, could I check my understanding please? My current set up is a 140amp battery, CBE 516 charger, CBE battery master, Truma 100 solar panel and regulator...
www.motorhomefun.co.uk www.motorhomefun.co.uk

I wondered if you had yet had a response Jim?
.
 
Hi guys,

I'm Owen from battery megastore. It's been great reading through the conversations everyone's been having on lithium batteries.
I myself am not technical however the team here at battery megastore can help alleviate or confirm your suspicions with lithium.
If anyone has any questions on our lithium batteries, please don't hesitate to ask and I can query these with our team.

Look forward to hearing from you all.
 
Armytwowheels said:
I think we will when we get back from France in a months time, if the offer is still on.
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We switched from 6 Varta LFD90’s to two lithium’s, they’re amazing in comparison. Think the best feature is just how quick they charge. Great when you’re charging using solar.

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