10 Year LPG bottle/tank information

[Basildog]

I have a 1500 litre tank in the garden and I often wonder if the owner of the tank and therefore supplier of gas is playing by the rules. It’s now 25 years old and has only ever been looked at by the delivery driver, it has certainly never been tested in any way. I did receive notification that it’s due to be changed this year though.

I am not completely sure regarding fixed bulk tanks but I do know that ours is checked annually.
At 10 years they carried out an in situ inspection and ultrasonic test I believe, they also changed the PRV , it was replaced with a brand new tank last year as it was over 20 years.
My understanding is that it now has to be completely stripped and examined, if satisfactory it can be put back into service.

 

[bobandjanie]

We were obviously lucky to get our gas bottle refurbished at the cost of €74.50 for new valves test and labour, or is it better to give you a discount on a new one ?

I wonder how many of these very good condition bottles go out the back door of the recycling centre if they get that far. Bob.

Refillable gas bottle good for another 10 years. 😎

We decided back in 2007 refillable gas bottles were the way to go, and decided on two 11kg gaslow bottles, but in 2010 Theonlysue Sue got some aluminium ones so I just had to have those being half the weight, so sold the gaslow and got aluminium 11kg from gas it. 🙂 Well 10 years on we...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[cyberyacht]

Got to change mint this year before we go abroad As anyone tried the new lightweight plastic ones

I've got a couple of Safefill composite cylinders in my van which I've had for about seven years. They are single inlet/outlet POL connection. Another composite brand "GasBank" have a separate inlet and outlet and can therefore be plumbed to a remote filler in the van sill like Gaslow or Alugas.

 

[BOWHOUSE52]

We re not, we have a properly constructed motorhome 8.5t and what looks to be a properly fitted substantial tank. Yet its being suggested that we are to constrained by the same rules as somebody that has fitted their own tank from ebay.

And they are made in poland because they are the best welders? I bet plenty are also made in China, the well known purveyor of quality construction!

L see

I've got a couple of Safefill composite cylinders in my van which I've had for about seven years. They are single inlet/outlet POL connection. Another composite brand "GasBank" have a separate inlet and outlet and can therefore be plumbed to a remote filler in the van sill like Gaslow or Alugas.

Hi how have you found those composite bottles

 

[gus-lopez]

One of my Cepsa cylinders we have here in Spain for Domestic use and gets swapped on a regular basis has a date stamp on its base..08/2006..

Is that the top quality guaranteed one we exchanged the other day?

For Christ's sake you are sleeping on top of a potential bomb surely you want to be safe.

I watched an excellent solar powered Lifepo6 install last night & when the commented on how thorough he was doing the install ( & he had done their complete off grid install as well previously) the bloke doing it replied " it needs to be ,remember you are sleeping above a bomb"

Cars explode and set on fire but you wouldn’t say” Change your car every 10 years no leeway that’s the new rule/law”

Which got me wondering about all the new lpg powered vehicles ? Do they need tanks changed /tested at 10 years? if so who does it or is the car scrap?

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[cyberyacht]

Hi how have you found those composite bottles

Fine. Just shine a torch through to see the gas level. Only downside is if garages are twitchy about filling direct to the bottle rather than through a socket in the sill. Have rarely had that issue though. Just find somewhere else. Basically they are a direct replacement for a Calor propane from an installation point of view. Some have fabricated a remote fill but it does require a stopcock between the POL fitting and the hose and is also not a recommended practice as the hose will have liquid LPG in it with the attendant hazard that creates. As Harry Callagham said "Do ya feel lucky?"

 

[Barriesimpson]

Fine. Just shine a torch through to see the gas level. Only downside is if garages are twitchy about filling direct to the bottle rather than through a socket in the sill. Have rarely had that issue though. Just find somewhere else. Basically they are a direct replacement for a Calor propane from an installation point of view. Some have fabricated a remote fill but it does require a stopcock between the POL fitting and the hose and is also not a recommended practice as the hose will have liquid LPG in it with the attendant hazard that creates. As Harry Callagham said "Do ya feel lucky?"

Mine fill through a filling point that I have next to the diesel and addBlue fillers. When I disconnect after filling, any gas left in the pipe up to the valve is spat out (be ready for that, it's quite loud and surprises me every time ) so no gas left in the pipe.

 

[DABurleigh]

Fine. Just shine a torch through to see the gas level. Only downside is if garages are twitchy about filling direct to the bottle rather than through a socket in the sill. Have rarely had that issue though. Just find somewhere else. Basically they are a direct replacement for a Calor propane from an installation point of view. Some have fabricated a remote fill but it does require a stopcock between the POL fitting and the hose and is also not a recommended practice as the hose will have liquid LPG in it with the attendant hazard that creates. As Harry Callagham said "Do ya feel lucky?"

Isn't that the same for a Gaslow remote fill? I had a 100% Gaslow fitting some years ago with a tiny leak JUST on/after filling. With some extra ventilation it dissipated in a few minutes and that was it until the next fill. There seem many NRVs in a gas system. You make me wonder whether it was a feature rather than a bug

Dave

 

[cyberyacht]

There's quite a difference between the small amount released from the connection and letting a whole hoseful escape.

 

[Barriesimpson]

There's quite a difference between the small amount released from the connection and letting a whole hoseful escape.

No, it's just a wee bit. The hose is at most 1.5M and at that pressure it's gone almost immediately. Just don't be smoking when it happens.

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[Pausim]

I found a lot of liquid gas was trapped in the pipe between the valve in the filling point and the 80% fill valve on the cylinder. On my first fill after installation I could smell a small leak and it was very obvious that there was liquid gas trapped in the pipe. I soon sorted out the leak with a bit more tightening. The spit back when the filler nozzle is released is just the small amount in the end of the nozzle, not a pipe full. The pipe full should find it’s way into the bottle as the gas is drawn off in normal use after the 80% valve reopens.

 

[Basildog]

No, it's just a wee bit. The hose is at most 1.5M and at that pressure it's gone almost immediately. Just don't be smoking when it happens.

I would be extremely surprised if anyone was actually stupid enough to fit a filling system that would allow a 1.5 metre hose full of liquid state LPG escape .
Your filler point should have NRV in it .
There’s actually set limits in the standards about maximum permitted discharge when removing a filling gun .
That’s why we don’t like the filters that are available as they increase the discharge volume.

 

[jumar]

Is that the top quality guaranteed one we exchanged the other day?

I watched an excellent solar powered Lifepo6 install last night & when the commented on how thorough he was doing the install ( & he had done their complete off grid install as well previously) the bloke doing it replied " it needs to be ,remember you are sleeping above a bomb"

Which got me wondering about all the new lpg powered vehicles ? Do they need tanks changed /tested at 10 years? if so who does it or is the car scrap?

Yes Richard...the one we swapped...but it has remained on my patio and will be swapped in due course...I may not put it in the camper because Lenny is quite concerned about our welfare...very kind and considerate...

 

[Barriesimpson]

I would be extremely surprised if anyone was actually stupid enough to fit a filling system that would allow a 1.5 metre hose full of liquid state LPG escape .
Your filler point should have NRV in it .
There’s actually set limits in the standards about maximum permitted discharge when removing a filling gun .
That’s why we don’t like the filters that are available as they increase the discharge volume.

I'm sure it does. I was just trying to calm people down as it seems they think the van will blow up every time they fill it. But then again, as my installation was done in Spain by a Spanish company, according to a few 'experts' here it is not fit for purpose and I will die shortly in a gas explosion.

 

[Lenny HB]

We were obviously lucky to get our gas bottle refurbished at the cost of €74.50 for new valves test and labour, or is it better to give you a discount on a new one ?

I thought it was €174 you paid.
Alugas now only do exchange for new cost me €215 for each bottle last September. They charge the same price for 11kg and 14kg, I have 14kg bottles so I got the best deal.

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[Lenny HB]

We were obviously lucky to get our gas bottle refurbished at the cost of €74.50 for new valves test and labour, or is it better to give you a discount on a new one ?

I thought it was €174 you paid.
Alugas now only do exchange for new cost me €215 for each bottle last September. They charge the same price for 11kg and 14kg, I have 14kg bottle so I got the best deal.

 

[Lenny HB]

If you protect your tank with spray it will last 20 years just like our tanks in use do” So the producer/retailer was having tanks in use 20 years

Even if that is the case the valves still need replacing at 10 years and there is no one in the UK that will re-valve a tank.

 

[CazPaul]

Even if that is the case the valves still need replacing at 10 years and there is no one in the UK that will re-valve a tank.

If you had read my posts I am talking about a combined effort approach, I can understand regulation but then you re-design the tanks/valves etc so they are easy to replace/check. I’m sure in this day and age it wouldn’t be that hard to do with technology these days.

 

[JockandRita]

I have a 1500 litre tank in the garden and I often wonder if the owner of the tank and therefore supplier of gas is playing by the rules. It’s now 25 years old and has only ever been looked at by the delivery driver, it has certainly never been tested in any way. I did receive notification that it’s due to be changed this year though.

I am not completely sure regarding fixed bulk tanks but I do know that ours is checked annually.
At 10 years they carried out an in situ inspection and ultrasonic test I believe, they also changed the PRV , it was replaced with a brand new tank last year as it was over 20 years.
My understanding is that it now has to be completely stripped and examined, if satisfactory it can be put back into service.

There we go, bulk tanks which are unprotected and open to the elements for 2 x decades plus, have been deemed to be okay during that period, with one supplier insisting on a 10 x year inspection, ultrasonic testing, and PRV replacement. No mention of complete renewal at the 10 x year stage.
Yet those of us with bulk tanks or cylinders well protected from the elements, (often looking as new as the day they were installed), find ourselves having to go through the expense of complete replacement at 10 x years!!!

The industry can't have their cake and eat it. If certain rules are deemed safe enough for permanently installed pressure vessels/bulk tanks, they should also be applied to secure semi permanent installations. Just saying like.

Jock.

 

[G-RMPS]

I guess we all need to budget like I do for my plane.

Tax and Insurance, unlikely to go down.
Regular inspection and maintenance.
Anticipate need to replace “lifed” components.
Anticipate possible significant unplanned costs.
Kick the tyres frequently.
Plan self-maintenance - C1, eyesight, etc.

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[Markman]

The industry can't have their cake and eat it. If certain rules are deemed safe enough for permanently installed pressure vessels/bulk tanks, they should also be applied to secure semi permanent installations. Just saying like.

Jock.

The same rules do apply. It's just that it probably takes a day of skilled labour for NDT (non destructive testing) and PRV replacement (probably more than the £800, or whatever, for your new cylinder/tank) but less than their replacement (considering hire of the crane to take out the old tank, etc.). So as you said, it's all about money and whatever is the lowest cost.

Calor, etc have 1,000s tanks in service so one-in-10 years inspections needed somewhere, so enough per year to employ people/contractors/management to do them.

I can't see the business case for inspecting small motorhome tanks, can you?

 

[Mikeco]

The same rules do apply. It's just that it probably takes a day of skilled labour for NDT (non destructive testing) and PRV replacement (probably more than the £800, or whatever, for your new cylinder/tank) but less than their replacement (considering hire of the crane to take out the old tank, etc.). So as you said, it's all about money and whatever is the lowest cost.

Calor, etc have 1,000s tanks in service so one-in-10 years inspections needed somewhere, so enough per year to employ people/contractors/management to do them.

I can't see the business case for inspecting small motorhome tanks, can you?

The same rules do not apply, my tank has not been tested at all in 25 years.

I received this message from a tank supplier today.

Hi Mike

OK .... so the standard (R67) recommends that after 10 years the tank is removed and inspected internally for corrosion etc, and if it is fine then it is ok to carry on using it. it is generally regard as more cost efficient to simply replace the tank. Is it a legal requirement ? No I don’t think it would be unless you were using it in a commercial environment, which in that case you would be required to get an annual gas safety check and it would be the responsibility of the gas safety examiner to highlight the tank has reached 10 years.

There are many tanks out there over 10 years old

 

[Just smiffy]

It’s a throwaway society….

 

[Yup]

I’m sure it would take much design to sort something out, better constructed tank, accessible valves etc etc,

Hi guys. Had this discussion with gas safe friend and qualified LPG engineer
On gas pipes all rubber pipes at home or on vans should be changed every 10 years. But not known by the public.
Apparently the gas attacks the pipe.

 

[Busybees]

We have Safefill lookalike bottles supplied by LPG Shop in Leicester. They now brand them as GasBank. They do have separate inlet and outlet. The valves appear to be the same as Gaslow. They have the date code on top of the bottle. When we got them, we were advised that they needed testing or replacing when 10 years old. I believe LPG Shop can organise testing overseas but not sure of the financial viability. The only problem we've had, is that in cold weather, the body mounted filler cap is a bugger to get off.
The lifespan of pigtails or high pressure pipe from filler to bottle I believe is only 5 years.
What about the lifespan of fire extinguishers?

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[bobandjanie]

I had 12 years working for a water company, and every now again we ended up drilling a gas main, I would remove our ferrule connection and put a plug in, our control would inform the gas company and they came and checked with that's fine no leaks fill it in. Bob

 

[B+W vanman]

I had 12 years working for a water company, and every now again we ended up drilling a gas main, I would remove our ferrule connection and put a plug in, our control would inform the gas company and they came and checked with that's fine no leaks fill it in. Bob

I assume gas mains are full of gas, not liquid gas?

 

[bigtwin]

I had 12 years working for a water company, and every now again we ended up drilling a gas main, I would remove our ferrule connection and put a plug in, our control would inform the gas company and they came and checked with that's fine no leaks fill it in. Bob

There’s a slight difference between LP gas and HP liquid (as contained in our gas bottles/tanks).

Ian

 

[bobandjanie]

I assume gas mains are full of gas, not liquid gas?

Yes no liquid unlike water very wet and have had it 200 feet high and need shutting off.
We tried throwing a steel sheet 6 x4 x half inch thick to try and fill the hole and get in running down the road, it was the A10 so busy and a couple near misses with people watching us and not the ones slowing down a 12" pumping main, and my mate was taken hospital his eyes were full of grit one of our not so good days. Bob.

 

[Minxy]

The industry can't have their cake and eat it. If certain rules are deemed safe enough for permanently installed pressure vessels/bulk tanks, they should also be applied to secure semi permanent installations. Just saying like.

One big difference is that the static tank doesn't get bumped around on the road which could cause fittings etc to become loose, fail etc.

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