Disaster on way to Portugal!!

[dpsuk999]

Well what started as a decent journey to Portugal on the 28th December has resulted in us currently in Evora parked outside a truck garage until Tuesday/Wednesday

To start the horrendous journey, we had a blow out on New Years Eve just over the border into Spain, pulled over into a SOS place and called RAC Arrival. The blow out was on the inner rear wheel, I carry a spare and have E&P jacks but for some reason I couldn’t find my 27mm socket to get the spare off so needed a recovery van to attend.

Anyway the guy arrived within 2 hours and I have to say I didn’t have much confidence in his abilities!!! Anyway fast forward 4 hours later and we were on our way, arrived at our overnight stop and the following morning continued our journey the full length of Spain and entering Portugal at Badajoz, I turned off the motorway onto a N road to our overnight stop on New Years Day and was flagged down by a car who indicated I had a problem with the rear wheels. Got out and to my absolute shock could see 3 nuts and part of the threads all jammed between the inner and outer wheel and consequently found both wheels were held on by 1, yes 1 bolt, the rest had sheared off!!!!!! bearing in mind also is that my Smart car is in the back of the motorhome too so imagine the weight on the back!!!

Incidentally I did hear a slight knocking noise while I was driving but out that down to the fact the spare wheel may not have been balanced but in fact it was the sheared wheel bolts rattling away in the spacer!!!

I again called the RAC Arrival and notified them of the situation, we were stopped on a N road with triangles out and no real way of moving as the wheels could have fallen off at any point. Anyway again a recovery guy came within 2 hours (was dark by this time). He saw the size of the motorhome and said BIG PROBLEM to get recovery that evening so I managed to slowly reverse into a farm entrance and we stayed there overnight. Anyway the following day at approximately 2 pm 2, yes 2 recovery trucks arrived from the same company and a small recovery truck. Loaded me up

We arrived at the truck garage and they immediately looked at it and said we were VERY lucky to be alive as if the wheels had come completely off then we would have lost control at motorway speed!! They agreed that the cause was the wheel nuts not been tightened at all!!

Now awaiting a new rear wheel hub from Iveco but luckily we have been allowed to stay with the van and been provided with water. Don’t need hookup as got a generator.

I have to say that the RAC Arrival have been excellent in their communication, checking up every 2 hours whilst we were stuck on the side of the road and also phoned yesterday for an update and they will speak with the garage.

I will be putting in a claim with the RAC for the complete and utter incompetence of the first recovery company changing the inner wheel and not even tightening the nuts!!! We could have been dead. I hate to think what the consequences oils have been

David

 

[Rudski01]

Wow, you have been lucky for that not to end in a serious accident, will the RAC try and claim back from the first recovery company?

Safe onward travels

 

[funflair]

Wow David, unlucky and lucky all at the same time I guess, I bet you wish you could have found your 27mm socket I guess yours is the same as ours in that the inside wheel is fixed with the spacer before the outside wheel is put on, the problem is then that even if you wanted to check his torque you couldn’t as the inside wheel nuts are hidden. It’s not rocket science though so your first guy must have been pretty incompetent.

Good to hear that RAC were on the ball though.

 

[L' Hobo]

Well what started as a decent journey to Portugal on the 28th December has resulted in us currently in Evora parked outside a truck garage until Tuesday/Wednesday

To start the horrendous journey, we had a blow out on New Years Eve just over the border into Spain, pulled over into a SOS place and called RAC Arrival. The blow out was on the inner rear wheel, I carry a spare and have E&P jacks but for some reason I couldn’t find my 27mm socket to get the spare off so needed a recovery van to attend.

Anyway the guy arrived within 2 hours and I have to say I didn’t have much confidence in his abilities!!! Anyway fast forward 4 hours later and we were on our way, arrived at our overnight stop and the following morning continued our journey the full length of Spain and entering Portugal at Badajoz, I turned off the motorway onto a N road to our overnight stop on New Years Day and was flagged down by a car who indicated I had a problem with the rear wheels. Got out and to my absolute shock could see 3 nuts and part of the threads all jammed between the inner and outer wheel and consequently found both wheels were held on by 1, yes 1 bolt, the rest had sheared off!!!!!! bearing in mind also is that my Smart car is in the back of the motorhome too so imagine the weight on the back!!!
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Incidentally I did hear a slight knocking noise while I was driving but out that down to the fact the spare wheel may not have been balanced but in fact it was the sheared wheel bolts rattling away in the spacer!!!

I again called the RAC Arrival and notified them of the situation, we were stopped on a N road with triangles out and no real way of moving as the wheels could have fallen off at any point. Anyway again a recovery guy came within 2 hours (was dark by this time). He saw the size of the motorhome and said BIG PROBLEM to get recovery that evening so I managed to slowly reverse into a farm entrance and we stayed there overnight. Anyway the following day at approximately 2 pm 2, yes 2 recovery trucks arrived from the same company and a small recovery truck. Loaded me up
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We arrived at the truck garage and they immediately looked at it and said we were VERY lucky to be alive as if the wheels had come completely off then we would have lost control at motorway speed!! They agreed that the cause was the wheel nuts not been tightened at all!!


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Now awaiting a new rear wheel hub from Iveco but luckily we have been allowed to stay with the van and been provided with water. Don’t need hookup as got a generator.

I have to say that the RAC Arrival have been excellent in their communication, checking up every 2 hours whilst we were stuck on the side of the road and also phoned yesterday for an update and they will speak with the garage.

I will be putting in a claim with the RAC for the complete and utter incompetence of the first recovery company changing the inner wheel and not even tightening the nuts!!! We could have been dead. I hate to think what the consequences oils have been

David

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I don't wish to be disrespectful but, are you sure the first mechanic did not tighten the wheel nuts?

It is ALWAYS stated that one should check the wheel nuts a few miles after a wheel change and the new wheel has settled.

This few miles would have given you time to source a socket that fitted in case you have another puncture?

You don't appear to have done either of these two things or am I mistaken?

 

[dpsuk999]

Wow, you have been lucky for that not to end in a serious accident, will the RAC try and claim back from the first recovery company?

Safe onward travels

Yes I assume so, I have all the details of the first recovery incompetent guy!!

I have to say though the service, communication and efficiency of the RAC Arrival has been first class and I guess they can’t be held responsible for the 3rd party recovery agents but I will be filing a claim with them

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[dpsuk999]

I don't wish to be disrespectful but, are you sure the first mechanic did not tighten the wheel nuts?

It is ALWAYS stated that one should check the wheel nuts a few miles after a wheel change and the new wheel has settled.

This few miles would have given you time to source a socket that fitted in case you have another puncture?

You don't appear to have done either of these two things or am I mistaken?

I had no way of checking as in his incompetence he had rounded out one of the wheel bolts on the outer wheel. My intention was to source a new one after arriving at our destination to check the inner nuts (can’t check the inner nuts without taking off the outer wheel)

 

[funflair]

I don't wish to be disrespectful but, are you sure the first mechanic did not tighten the wheel nuts?

It is ALWAYS stated that one should check the wheel nuts a few miles after a wheel change and the new wheel has settled.

This few miles would have given you time to source a socket that fitted in case you have another puncture?

You don't appear to have done either of these two things or am I mistaken?

The trouble with this design is that you can’t actually check the torque on the inside nuts without removing the outer wheel, to be fair the first guy had most likely never seen this setup as it’s from Meier the chassis converter not standard IVECO.

 

[dpsuk999]

Wow David, unlucky and lucky all at the same time I guess, I bet you wish you could have found your 27mm socket I guess yours is the same as ours in that the inside wheel is fixed with the spacer before the outside wheel is put on, the problem is then that even if you wanted to check his torque you couldn’t as the inside wheel nuts are hidden. It’s not rocket science though so your first guy must have been pretty incompetent.

Good to hear that RAC were on the ball though.

Yes Martin same as yours I couldn’t re-check the torque as he rounded off one of the outer wheel bolts in his incompetence

 

[L' Hobo]

The trouble with this design is that you can’t actually check the torque on the inside nuts without removing the outer wheel, to be fair the first guy had most likely never seen this setup as it’s from Meier the chassis converter not standard IVECO.

I have to admit, in 60 yrs of mechanicing on heavy vehicles, I have never seen rear wheels with TWO securing nuts, spacers yes, but not two nuts!

 

[Razamataz]

I don't wish to be disrespectful but, are you sure the first mechanic did not tighten the wheel nuts?

It is ALWAYS stated that one should check the wheel nuts a few miles after a wheel change and the new wheel has settled.

This few miles would have given you time to source a socket that fitted in case you have another puncture?

You don't appear to have done either of these two things or am I mistaken?

I don’t think you’re comments are useful.
No way can All these bolts can become loose at the same time.
The bolts have to be torqued to about 190n.
The checking that you refer to is suggested after 100 miles.
(Hands up !!!how many people do that?)

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[Al n Val]

Bloody Hell

you had a very lucky escape I’d say so safe onward journey hopefully from now on

 

[dpsuk999]

The inner wheel and spacer is held onto the back axel assembly with 6 bolts connected to the rear wheel hub, the 2 you can see in the pictures are the remaining out of 6, the other 4 sheared off. This is the new part I’m waiting for:

 

[L' Hobo]

I don’t think you’re comments are useful.
No way can All these bolts can become loose at the same time.
The bolts have to be torqued to about 190n.
The checking that you refer to is suggested after 100 miles.
(Hands up !!!how many people do that?)

I do after about 40 miles but what do I know?

PS, I would also question your statement about the nuts having to be torqued to 140 lbs?

 

[dpsuk999]

I don’t think you’re comments are useful.
No way can All these bolts can become loose at the same time.
The bolts have to be torqued to about 190n.
The checking that you refer to is suggested after 100 miles.
(Hands up !!!how many people do that?)

You can see on each of the nuts in my hands the difference in the height of the nuts to the thread, showing they have worked their way to the top of the thread and then snapped

 

[funflair]

I do after about 40 miles but what do I know?

Yes I do but not the inner ones to be fair, more to the point though how many times have you found them dangerously slack ?

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[Scotch mist]

I don't wish to be disrespectful but, are you sure the first mechanic did not tighten the wheel nuts?

It is ALWAYS stated that one should check the wheel nuts a few miles after a wheel change and the new wheel has settled.

This few miles would have given you time to source a socket that fitted in case you have another puncture?

You don't appear to have done either of these two things or am I mistaken?

If you didn’t want to seem disrespectful you shouldn’t have posted a reply like that



David’s only mistake was believing the mechanic was competent

 

[L' Hobo]

Yes I do but not the inner ones to be fair, more to the point though how many times have you found them dangerously slack ?

Never dangerously but loose slightly on a couple of occasions.

 

[funflair]

I have to admit, in 60 yrs of mechanicing on heavy vehicles, I have never seen rear wheels with TWO securing nuts, spacers yes, but not two nuts!

I am assuming you mean two sets of nuts, on our previous daily chassis it was traditional wheels back to back and then easy to check, with the bodies getting wider on these vans they are using spacers to pull the wheels out a bit.

 

[busby]

What idiot designed that system of wheel attachment? The mind boggles..BUSBY.

 

[chaser]

I don’t think you’re comments are useful.
No way can All these bolts can become loose at the same time.
The bolts have to be torqued to about 190n.
The checking that you refer to is suggested after 100 miles.
(Hands up !!!how many people do that?)

Also to be fair he must have done 100 miles.

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[Paulypaul]

Personally I would have used Google translate to ask the fitter what torque setting he is going to use for the inner and outer nuts? No good just using a gun to wind them on and think that's tight enough?

However, he could also have over tightened the bolts which is as bad as under tightening as the bolts stretch and ultimately can shear.

Even in the UK, if I ever have a wheel changed on my truck or one of the trailers, I'll always ask the fitter what torque they are going to set the nuts/bolts to, and you'd be amazed how many routinely quote torque settings that are too high?

@L'Hobo is 100% correct in that any wheel nut or bolt should be tightened approximately 30km after torquing or, waiting 30 minutes then check torque again.

 

[L' Hobo]

If you didn’t want to seem disrespectful you shouldn’t have posted a reply like that



David’s only mistake was believing the mechanic was competent

Oh I can be a lot more disrespectful than that if I try hard but hopefully my disrespectful comment will remind others to check their wheelnuts?

 

[PaulW2]

All told that was actually extremely lucky...

I wonder whether there's any chance that the cause could be something other than failure to tighten the bolts sufficiently. For instance over-torquing, or the events around the blow out weakening the bolts, causing them to shear when torqued thereafter?

 

[L' Hobo]

I am assuming you mean two sets of nuts, on our previous daily chassis it was traditional wheels back to back and then easy to check, with the bodies getting wider on these vans they are using spacers to pull the wheels out a bit.

Most of the Trucks and Coaches I've owned have only had one set of nuts but most of the Australian trailor's I worked on had spacers.

 

[sueandjohn]

I don't wish to be disrespectful but, are you sure the first mechanic did not tighten the wheel nuts?

It is ALWAYS stated that one should check the wheel nuts a few miles after a wheel change and the new wheel has settled.

This few miles would have given you time to source a socket that fitted in case you have another puncture?

You don't appear to have done either of these two things or am I mistaken?

What an ill-judged comment to someone in so much trouble

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[funflair]

I don’t think you’re comments are useful.
No way can All these bolts can become loose at the same time.
The bolts have to be torqued to about 190n.
The checking that you refer to is suggested after 100 miles.
(Hands up !!!how many people do that?)

They don’t “have” be torqued or even tightened but it does help and if you are it’s more like 350nm.

 

[funflair]

Most of the Trucks and Coaches I've owned have only had one set of nuts but most of the Australian trailor's I worked on had spacers.

We’re they a long bolt or the same as this where the spacer actually carries the second wheel.

 

[Carpmart]

Wow - lucky the outcome was as positive as it was!

As the lyrics of the song go, ‘things can only get better’!

 

[L' Hobo]

What an ill-judged comment to someone in so much trouble

Perhaps? Your comment could have been more helpful to him too?

But I'm out of this thread so chat amongst yourselves.

 

[Razamataz]

I do after about 40 miles but what do I know?

PS, I would also question your statement about the nuts having to be torqued to 140 lbs?

My Nuts are dead tight

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