MRO and Payload

[adamo23]

I recently purchased a new motor home. 4 Berth Adamo. The MRO was quoted as 3160 kg with a payload of 340 kg. I loaded the van up weighing stuff as I was loading, give or take a few things. I though I was well in. On the way home from a week away, I stopped at a weighbridge. I was 60 kg over. Half tank of fuel. Waste tank empty. 20 litres fresh water. 10 litres in heater. Wife and dog.

When I studied the Bailey marketing literature, generous 340 kg payload was emphasised, but in the small print it stated that the MRO had a tolerance of +/- 5%. The quoted MRO was based on the weight of the vehicle they submitted for type approval and could have been tweaked since. Adblue is not included. It more likely to be towards the top end of tolerance. Which means my payload could be 181 kg.

The van has 4 beds and 4 seatbelts. Which you would expect is intended to transport 4 people. 3 average sight people would take the van over legal limits. The Bailey experts on the Bailey Facebook site. Say just up plate it, which I can’t. They also commented what family of four would buy a 3500 kg van. I guess most newbies would just look at the number of beds.

Vans should be weighed at the end of the production line a ticket put on the window so that you see the true payload. Or a fictional one.

 

[headlight]

Mine was limited to a 100kg back axle increase with changing wheels and tyres because although mine is 2006 and should have discs all round my rear brakes are drum.
Apparently I have a 2005 chassis but registered in 2006.

Thinking about it it wasn't an extra 100kgs on the rear axle it was an extra 100kgs max weight taking the max weight from 3,400kgs to 3,500kgs but keeping the same max axle weights of 1,750kgs front and 1,900kgs rear.
So as the extra 100kgs would really only be usable on the front axle there was no point.

 

[CAB96]

Thought under the latest rules no awning means van with windows not motorhome

Only for post registration conversions.

Chassis for coachbuilts won't be registered yet, and the motorhome constructors will presumably register them as motor caravans at first registration.

At least, that's how I understand it.

 

[Boldly]

Only for post registration conversions.

Chassis for coachbuilts won't be registered yet, and the motorhome constructors will presumably register them as motor caravans at first registration.

At least, that's how I understand it.

What about all the pvc's?

 

[Barclaybasher]

If weight can be kept below 3500kg there are so many advantages - licence - weight limit zones - tolls - recovery - selling means more buyers.....

Only slight disadvantage VED is more

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[dunnah01]

If weight can be kept below 3500kg there are so many advantages - licence - weight limit zones - tolls - recovery - selling means more buyers.....

Only slight disadvantage VED is more

Licence is the only real world difference and most of us oldie moho-ers have grand father rights to C1 anyway. Weight limit zones can easily be driven around or flaunted if you don't make yourself look heavy; tolls usually depend on height and are the same for the majority of motorhomes up to around 4500kg; recovery is he same for over 3500kg if you chose the right deal; selling is the same if you are as unscrupulous as the manufacturers and downplate prior to selling.

 

[Jonno1103]

Licence is the only real world difference and most of us oldie moho-ers have grand father rights to C1 anyway. Weight limit zones can easily be driven around or flaunted if you don't make yourself look heavy; tolls usually depend on height and are the same for the majority of motorhomes up to around 4500kg; recovery is he same for over 3500kg if you chose the right deal; selling is the same if you are as unscrupulous as the manufacturers and downplate prior to selling.

Friends of mine up plated their F Line F70 to 4100kg then chopped it in for a large tag axle. The dealer didn't down plate it and put it up for sale at 3500kg.

 

[PaulW2]

I understand that in France very few people are licenced to drive vehicles heavier then 3,500 kg. But they have many large A class and coachbuilt vans that are plated at 3,500 kg. As reported almost all run overweight. Ditto, presumably, some other European countries where these manufacturers sell their vans and few drivers have C1 licences.

One obviously doesn't want to run overweight, but if UK manufacturers also create a situation where the vehicle can't be used as designed within weight limits, there are presumably many UK vans in the same situation. Only the diligent few, as seen on this thread, even seem to worry about it. And the authorities at some level must turn a blind eye, or the manufacturers couldn't get away with it.

So there seems to be a question of what the consequences are. (I'll take the safety ones as read, but I'm thinking more about dealing with authorities.)

How often have regular motorhomes been pulled over for being overweight? How often have insurance claims been declined because vans were overweight? Does this ever happen? (I've never been pulled over though I hasten to say I would always have been legal )

 

[Barclaybasher]

Licence is the only real world difference and most of us oldie moho-ers have grand father rights to C1 anyway. Weight limit zones can easily be driven around or flaunted if you don't make yourself look heavy; tolls usually depend on height and are the same for the majority of motorhomes up to around 4500kg; recovery is he same for over 3500kg if you chose the right deal; selling is the same if you are as unscrupulous as the manufacturers and downplate prior to selling.

Grandfather rights mean any driver younger than 43 must take a test to drive anything above 3500kg (that's if the driving test was passed at 17) so keeping under 3500kg is important to many.

I am surprised that motorhome manufacturers haven't lobbied to raise the licence weight to 4000kg or more instead of trying stay under 3500kg.

I may run the risk of going over but that's all.

If your V5 says over 3500kg and you have an accident in a restricted weight zone or have no Angles Mort stickers on (pretending that you're under)...........

 

[FrankNicklin]

We haven't had our MH long its an oldie on a 52Plate Swift. The Convertor plate shows 3400Kg then front at 1750kg, rear at 1900kg. The Fiat plate also include a value of 5000kg.

My V5C shows none of this detail, I thought the V5C had to show the unladen weight as part of the original registration process. According to some online data I've found the payload is listed as 737kg. Are older vans more or less likely to have better payloads based on the base vehicle having less tech and being lighter to start with.

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[Lenny HB]

The 5000 kg is the Gross Train Weight, the Max of the Motorhome + Trailer.

The V5 will only show the MAM - Max authorised Mass (Gross Weight.

Payload will be given for the basic vehicle with allowances for direr normally 75 kg, fuel 90%, 20 Lt of water and one gas cylinder these allowances will depend on the manufacturer. Then you need to reduce the payload by any added factory/dealer/user fitted extras. So if it's had an awning, TV, oven, second battery etc., fitted that could reduce the payload by over a 100 kg.

 

[FrankNicklin]

The 5000 kg is the Gross Train Weight, the Max of the Motorhome + Trailer.

The V5 will only show the MAM - Max authorised Mass (Gross Weight.

Payload will be given for the basic vehicle with allowances for direr normally 75 kg, fuel 90%, 20 Lt of water and one gas cylinder these allowances will depend on the manufacturer. Then you need to reduce the payload by any added factory/dealer/user fitted extras. So if it's had an awning, TV, oven, second battery etc., fitted that could reduce the payload by over a 100 kg.

No weights at all shown on my V5C. Body Type is motor caravan and taxation class is PLG but no weights.

 

[Lenny HB]

Has it not got a revenue weight? They don't always fill in the MAM.

PLG is up to 350kkg, if no revenue weight you go by the converters plate, laste plate fitted overides any others.

 

[FrankNicklin]

Has it not got a revenue weight? They don't always fill in the MAM.

PLG is up to 350kkg, if no revenue weight you go by the converters plate, laste plate fitted overides any others.

No, revenue weight is blank as you can see on the V5C. Revenue weight would be the unladen weight is that correct.

 

[Lenny HB]

No, revenue weight is blank as you can see on the V5C. Revenue weight would be the unladen weight is that correct.

No, the Revenue weight will be the same as the MAM (Gross weight) the max your van can weigh.

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[FrankNicklin]

No, the Revenue weight will be the same as the MAM (Gross weight) the max your van can weigh.

OK, thanks.

 

[headlight]

OK, thanks.

My 590, RL not RS is 3,400kgs.

 

[FrankNicklin]

My 590, RL not RS is 3,400kgs.

Mine is the 590RS. What age is yours have you had it weighed unladen.

 

[headlight]

FrankNicklin Mine is registered 2006 but the chassis is 2005 as I have the pre face lift cab and rear drum brakes not discs.
Weighed in full traveling trim, for us, front axle 1,320kgs (max 1,750kgs), rear axle 1,780kgs (max 1,900kgs) overall 3,120kgs (max 3,400kgs).
That's the 2 of us, full fuel, everything for 3-4 weeks away but no water.
We're a bit lighter now as I've reduced the weight on the rear axle by about 40kgs.

 

[FrankNicklin]

FrankNicklin Mine is registered 2006 but the chassis is 2005 as I have the pre face lift cab and rear drum brakes not discs.
Weighed in full traveling trim, for us, front axle 1,320kgs (max 1,750kgs), rear axle 1,780kgs (max 1,900kgs) overall 3,120kgs (max 3,400kgs).
That's the 2 of us, full fuel, everything for 3-4 weeks away but no water.
We're a bit lighter now as I've reduced the weight on the rear axle by about 40kgs.

Thank you thats extremely useful. What did you take out to reduce the rear axle weight. Those plate weights are the same as mine so should be pretty close I would have thought. Do you carry an awning and or bikes. We don't have an awning but may carry bikes in the future.

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[headlight]

Thank you thats extremely useful. What did you take out to reduce the rear axle weight. Those plate weights are the same as mine so should be pretty close I would have thought. Do you carry an awning and or bikes. We don't have an awning but may carry bikes in the future.

Yes I have a large awning.
No bikes but I have a 3 bike carrier on the back wall.
I have an aluminium tray on rear chassis extentions that was meant for a scooter that came with the motorhome.
I have a large "cargo" bag in the tray and carry a spare cassette, levelling ramps, hoses, hook up cable, sack truck etc in it.
I took some stuff out of the cargo bag that I was carrying just in case lol.

 

[FrankNicklin]

Yes I have a large awning.
No bikes but I have a 3 bike carrier on the back wall.
I have an aluminium tray on rear chassis extentions that was meant for a scooter that came with the motorhome.
I have a large "cargo" bag in the tray and carry a spare cassette, levelling ramps, hoses, hook up cable, sack truck etc in it.
I took some stuff out of the cargo bag that I was carrying just in case lol.

OK thats a useful comparison. We don't have anything on the rear apart from an empty 2 bike carrier at the moment so no extra weight over the rear axle. Ramps, hoses, sack truck and hookup cables, spare 10L water carrier all fit under our seats so the weight is spread across the length of the van. Our kitchen is at the rear so will add to the rear axle weight, likewise the toilet is towards the rear so the cassette is at the back but the fresh water tank is behind the drivers seat.

 

[headlight]

OK thats a useful comparison. We don't have anything on the rear apart from an empty 2 bike carrier at the moment so no extra weight over the rear axle. Ramps, hoses, sack truck and hookup cables, spare 10L water carrier all fit under our seats so the weight is spread across the length of the van. Our kitchen is at the rear so will add to the rear axle weight, likewise the toilet is towards the rear so the cassette is at the back but the fresh water tank is behind the drivers seat.

As we're rear lounge my fresh water tank is right in the rear drivers side corner under the sofa.
If we carry water, which we don't normally, I put 4 x 10 litre containers on our front bathroom floor to keep weight forward. Likewise we carry a pair of zero gravity recliners strapped to the back of the passenger seat to try to keep weight up front as being a rear lounge our storage lockers are at the rear.
I noticed a big improvement in handling by reducing the weight at the back and increasing it at the front.
I also dropped my tyre pressures from the ridiculously bone shaking 80psi all round to 65psi rear and 60psi front which also made a big improvement.
If I swap my lead acid leisure batteries to lithiums, which I am thinking of doing, that will be another 30kgs less weight at the back.

 

[Lyrick]

See plate below, can I up plate?

View attachment 824939

The plate on my motorhome has exactly the same figures as yours. Do you have a 9 speed auto box ?

I also have the same size wheels/tyres and up plated to 3960kgs . No alterations needed, and all done with the help of Dee at Van Weight Engineering.

Patrick

 

[Jonno1103]

We haven't had our MH long its an oldie on a 52Plate Swift. The Convertor plate shows 3400Kg then front at 1750kg, rear at 1900kg. The Fiat plate also include a value of 5000kg.

My V5C shows none of this detail, I thought the V5C had to show the unladen weight as part of the original registration process. According to some online data I've found the payload is listed as 737kg. Are older vans more or less likely to have better payloads based on the base vehicle having less tech and being lighter to start with.

It depends, it's worth trying to get your hands on an original brochure.

As an example the 2012 Auto Trail brochure included a full tank of water in their MTPLM, a weighty 135kg.

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[TonyEmm]

No, revenue weight is blank as you can see on the V5C. Revenue weight would be the unladen weight is that correct.

No. The unladen weight is rarely shown anywhere and anyway, it only becomes an issue with speed limits (over/under 3050kgs). Revenue weight (MGW) is what dictates the VED.
The V5c can be a very sketchy document regarding weights! Most are not filled in.

 

[FrankNicklin]

No. The unladen weight is rarely shown anywhere and anyway, it only becomes an issue with speed limits (over/under 3050kgs). Revenue weight (MGW) is what dictates the VED.
The V5c can be a very sketchy document regarding weights! Most are not filled in.

There is an issue with speed limits. Under 3.05Tonnes and you can do the same speeds as cars, over and the max you can do on a dual carriage way is 60mph. Unless its documented how would they know. No DVLA records to confirm the unladen weight of the vehicle. It would have to be a manually operated speed trap to be able to pull you over to check. Then what, empty your vehicle to manufacturers spec with fluids etc and take you to the nearest weigh bridge. Driving above your license or above the maximum plated weight I get as thats easily checked.

 

[Jonno1103]

No. The unladen weight is rarely shown anywhere and anyway, it only becomes an issue with speed limits (over/under 3050kgs). Revenue weight (MGW) is what dictates the VED.
The V5c can be a very sketchy document regarding weights! Most are not filled in.

I think for the most part that depends on what you buy. On all UK built vans the V5 must have revenue weight, max permissible mass, mass in service & both braked & unbraked trailer weights.

We'll soon be seeing a subtle change in UK type approval. Most EU built motorhomes will need additional work which, no doubt, will effect cost and there will be a few rule changes for those models bought across the channel as imports... let's hope they all see a bit of sense and attempt to keep the bureaucracy to a minimum.

EU towing rules are already different to those in the UK. In France for instance you can't tow a car on a trailer unless it's for recovery over a short distance and the E/B trailer component is up to a max train of 4250kg. In the UK now you don't need a further test for BE and the max train can be upto 7500kg.

 

[FrankNicklin]

On all UK built vans the V5 must have revenue weight, max permissible mass, mass in service & both braked & unbraked trailer weights.

I presume this is for new vans or vans built after a certain date as my V5 has none of this detail as you can see in my post.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/mro-and-payload.291913/post-5881910

 

[Jonno1103]

No weights at all shown on my V5C. Body Type is motor caravan and taxation class is PLG but no weights.

View attachment 833987

I'll dig mine out, there's a clear difference.

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[Jonno1103]

I presume this is for new vans or vans built after a certain date as my V5 has none of this detail as you can see in my post.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/mro-and-payload.291913/post-5881910