MRO and Payload

[adamo23]

I recently purchased a new motor home. 4 Berth Adamo. The MRO was quoted as 3160 kg with a payload of 340 kg. I loaded the van up weighing stuff as I was loading, give or take a few things. I though I was well in. On the way home from a week away, I stopped at a weighbridge. I was 60 kg over. Half tank of fuel. Waste tank empty. 20 litres fresh water. 10 litres in heater. Wife and dog.

When I studied the Bailey marketing literature, generous 340 kg payload was emphasised, but in the small print it stated that the MRO had a tolerance of +/- 5%. The quoted MRO was based on the weight of the vehicle they submitted for type approval and could have been tweaked since. Adblue is not included. It more likely to be towards the top end of tolerance. Which means my payload could be 181 kg.

The van has 4 beds and 4 seatbelts. Which you would expect is intended to transport 4 people. 3 average sight people would take the van over legal limits. The Bailey experts on the Bailey Facebook site. Say just up plate it, which I can’t. They also commented what family of four would buy a 3500 kg van. I guess most newbies would just look at the number of beds.

Vans should be weighed at the end of the production line a ticket put on the window so that you see the true payload. Or a fictional one.

 

[Mzracer]

Did the 3.5t limitation not get introduced as a result of EU membership?

Better get shot of it then.

 

[Gellyneck]

Better get shot of it then.

No reason, as far as I'm aware, that we can't.

 

[Mzracer]

No reason, as far as I'm aware, that we can't.

Just needs some traction in parliament but they all have their eyes on something much bigger !!

 

[Phill D]

The other oddity is that a non C1 license allows you to drive upto 3500kgs plus a braked trailer upto 3500kgs.
So a train weight of 7 tons. Yet max single vehicle 3.5ton.

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[TonyEmm]

Did the 3.5t limitation not get introduced as a result of EU membership?

The U.K. joined the U.K. in 1973. I can’t find any relevance regarding gross weights between then and now

 

[TonyEmm]

The other oddity is that a non C1 license allows you to drive upto 3500kgs plus a braked trailer upto 3500kgs.
So a train weight of 7 tons. Yet max single vehicle 3.5ton.

Driving a motorhome

Motorhomes and campervans - size limits and licences you need to drive in the UK

www.gov.uk

 

[Phill D]

Driving a motorhome

Motorhomes and campervans - size limits and licences you need to drive in the UK

www.gov.uk

Category B - if you passed your test on or after 1 January 1997. You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg maximum authorised mass ( MAM ) with up to 8 passenger seats. You can tow a trailer that weighs up to 3,500kg MAM .

 

[David and Sally]

The U.K. joined the U.K. in 1973. I can’t find any relevance regarding gross weights between then and now

Try that again

 

[Lenny HB]

The U.K. joined the U.K. in 1973. I can’t find any relevance regarding gross weights between then and now

But in 1997 we decided to harmonise our licencing laws with the EU.

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[Pausim]

like some one else said the MH's should be given a CofC on weight at the end of the production line.

My C of C shows the weights including “ Mass of the ready-to-drive vehicle with body (including factory accessories).”

 

[Simon Select]

The trailer is a good idea, however you will need to check the Train weight on the VIN plate. I am pretty sure Adamo for instance can only tow 750KG.

 

[Jonno1103]

No 3500kg motorhome is suitable for 4 passengers. Simple common sense tells us this.

Personally I can only speak for the Ford based AT F Line, each build is driven over a weighbridge after leaving the production line, no two are the same. It is this figure which is shown on the Mass in Service. Each owner must then add 14 - 28kg for standard gas bottles. That's your bottom line, everything else comes off your payload. Simple mathematics we were all taught before the age of 10.

Me? I weigh everything and we carefully consider the pros & cons of every accessory we have bolted on AFTER we've considered the mundane stuff like clothing, kitchenware etc.

What's the problem with the Adamo? That's easy, too many heavy standard fitments.

You may think foldable Aguti travel seats are the mutts nuts but two of these weigh 50kg, twice the weight of inline dinette travel seats.

An electric MAPA folding telescopic table weighs 20kg, a standard moho folding table weighs around 4kg, 5 times less.

Electric dropdown bed with a 200kg weight limit? 53kg. Do you really need it or are convertible bench seats adequate enough?

An Adamo is 123kg heavier before you even start as they're standard rather than options, that's a huge deficit on a 3500kg down plated platform. Yeah they look nice etc but fit them on a minimum 4250kg van as there's no place for them at 3500kg.

Want a 4m wind out sun canopy? Fine... but that'll take 32 - 34kg dependent on brand.

Now you're pushing 3200kg leaving 225kg when the minimum allowance for even 1 passenger is taken into consideration and many drivers or passengers weigh a lot more than that... as an example I weigh 135kg.

In all reality the Adamo isn't fit for purpose for 2 let alone 4. The same can be said for the Swift Voyager.

Thing is though, the figures are all there for the world to see in order for any prospective owner to do their homework in order to make an informed decision so for me the real question is why are people buying them?

 

[Pausim]

Thing is though, the figures are all there for the world to see in order for any prospective owner to do their homework in order to make an informed decision so for me the real question is why are people buying them?

People buy cars without a second thought about payload, assuming they are being sold something that is fit for purpose. They make the same assumption when buying a motorhome without realising that it is a very different proposition. Some manufacturers are better than others about giving detailed weights and some dealers are more honest than others about what is a reasonable payload. It doesn’t surprise me at all that so many fall into this trap. The unscrupulous parts of the industry (not all of it) care more about sales figures and commission than about customers being properly informed.

 

[Jonno1103]

People buy cars without a second thought about payload, assuming they are being sold something that is fit for purpose. They make the same assumption when buying a motorhome without realising that it is a very different proposition. Some manufacturers are better than others about giving detailed weights and some dealers are more honest than others about what is a reasonable payload. It doesn’t surprise me at all that so many fall into this trap. The unscrupulous parts of the industry (not all of it) care more about sales figures and commission than about customers being properly informed.

I think we all know what assumption is the mother of. It's the same with many leisure accessories... roof racks, roof boxes & trailers. Blinkers are applied before decisions are made and they are invariably overloaded.

Difference with cars is that it doesn't matter what size you buy as your license category covers it.

For me I think younger families with post '97 licenses need to look at wobble boxes as a more realistic alternative.

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[Platelet]

Want a 4m wind out sun canopy? Fine... but that'll take 32 - 34kg dependent on brand.

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that you can’t fit one to an Adamo as there aren’t any securing points, via Bailey at last year’s NEC. That’s why Bailey don’t offer any as an option so may void your warranty if fitted?

 

[David and Sally]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that you can’t fit one to an Adamo as there aren’t any securing points, via Bailey at last year’s NEC. That’s why Bailey don’t offer any as an option so may void your warranty if fitted?

Bailey do a roof mounting bracket set for the Adamo that mounts a Thule wind out.

 

[Boldly]

Thought under the latest rules no awning means van with windows not motorhome

 

[SVMC15]

I always find these payload threads interesting, I am a '97 licence holder.

I have a 3500kg (originally plated at 3650) 6 berth swift, stated 446kg payload. In the 9 years I've had the van I've had it weighed twice previously. We have spent 3 weeks in Europe every year except the second COVID summer when we visited Wales.

We are a family of 4 (184kg), 75kg of me is included in the MIRO, a dog (12kg) Carry a paddle board (17kg) on and slightly behind the rear axle also one bike (13kg) for trips to top up the fridge. We have never carried the dinette fillers, we don't make it a double and they take up space (-6 kg), I have removed the steel work for it also (-19kg). I have replaced the sink with a stronger but heavier fibreglass one, also changed the mirror which is far lighter than the original glass unit. I carry half tank of water (so -26kgs), plus 15kg in 5l bottles for drinking. Oh and the boules are 5.8kg!

I have just replaced my two 6kg calorlites with standard 6kg calors (extra 14kg!!!) so thought I'd see where I was with loads thinking about either an underslung gas tank or refillables.

I know I'm always close, I've weighed it before, I know what I've put in the van, also what has been removed! I thought I had 77kg left.

Weighbridge figures Friday 13th October 2023

Front 1700kg
Rear 1760kg
Total 3440kg (I know it doesn't add up but that's what the readout read and the paperwork says!)

Bearing in mind we also have wet weather wear in the van I thought this was quite good. I did forget to put in the laptop (5.1kg) which I take on long trips to use multieuscan, even though I've never actually used it while away. For full disclosure I now have an extra 67kg as I only made my son come for the weigh in, he is 18 and has a girlfriend so doesn't want to travel with us anymore!

I agree there are plenty of overloaded vans out there, I have seen them too, but please stop presuming that it is impossible for a 3500kg van and that us younger funsters are stupid!

 

[clanjones]

As with all things it is buyer beware and understand your product.

It doesn't help though,t when you have salesman telling not to get hung up on payload and that was at this year's NEC! Don't ask me which company but we were appalled. He back pedalled when my wife raised a few salient points with him. He won't be the only one though.

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[Lenny HB]

I always find these payload threads interesting, I am a '97 licence holder.

I have a 3500kg (originally plated at 3650) 6 berth swift, stated 446kg payload. In the 9 years I've had the van I've had it weighed twice previously. We have spent 3 weeks in Europe every year except the second COVID summer when we visited Wales.

We are a family of 4 (184kg), 75kg of me is included in the MIRO, a dog (12kg) Carry a paddle board (17kg) on and slightly behind the rear axle also one bike (13kg) for trips to top up the fridge. We have never carried the dinette fillers, we don't make it a double and they take up space (-6 kg), I have removed the steel work for it also (-19kg). I have replaced the sink with a stronger but heavier fibreglass one, also changed the mirror which is far lighter than the original glass unit. I carry half tank of water (so -26kgs), plus 15kg in 5l bottles for drinking. Oh and the boules are 5.8kg!

I have just replaced my two 6kg calorlites with standard 6kg calors (extra 14kg!!!) so thought I'd see where I was with loads thinking about either an underslung gas tank or refillables.

I know I'm always close, I've weighed it before, I know what I've put in the van, also what has been removed! I thought I had 77kg left.

Weighbridge figures Friday 13th October 2023

Front 1700kg
Rear 1760kg
Total 3440kg (I know it doesn't add up but that's what the readout read and the paperwork says!)

Bearing in mind we also have wet weather wear in the van I thought this was quite good. I did forget to put in the laptop (5.1kg) which I take on long trips to use multieuscan, even though I've never actually used it while away. For full disclosure I now have an extra 67kg as I only made my son come for the weigh in, he is 18 and has a girlfriend so doesn't want to travel with us anymore!

I agree there are plenty of overloaded vans out there, I have seen them too, but please stop presuming that it is impossible for a 3500kg van and that us younger funsters are stupid!

But you are not exactly travelling as most people would.
One bike between 4 most families of 4 would have 4 bikes, also most carry e-bikes at twice the weight, you have taken out part of the bed make up, I suspect you don't have an awning. Only 26 kg of water. We wouldn't leave home without the tank full that's 160 kg for us.

For us I wouldn't touch a van with less than 1000kg payload for two.

 

[SVMC15]

But you are not exactly travelling as most people would.
One bike between 4 most families of 4 would have 4 bikes, also most carry e-bikes at twice the weight, you have taken out part of the bed make up, I suspect you don't have an awning. Only 26 kg of water. We wouldn't leave home without the tank full that's 160 kg for us.

For us I wouldn't touch a van with less than 1000kg payload for two.

The bike only gets used for trips to the shops, it's difficult to walk the dog on a bike. Some years we've had two kids bikes, other years just the paddle board, once we didn't take anything.

It would be silly taking the infills for a bed that would never get used.

My bad with the water, it wasn't clear, the minus 26kg is the reduction from the 90% stated MIRO. We had 65kg inc heater. We have an awning. The TV does get removed for Europe.

My point still stands a 3500kg van for a family of 4 is doable and we're not all stupid. I've done it, we've had great holidays, on Aires, wild camping and sites. We can only do 3 days off grid electrically, only 2 before the toilet is full and yes swifts are quite flimsy, but that doesn't change my statement.

 

[Mzracer]

The bike only gets used for trips to the shops, it's difficult to walk the dog on a bike. Some years we've had two kids bikes, other years just the paddle board, once we didn't take anything.

It would be silly taking the infills for a bed that would never get used.

My bad with the water, it wasn't clear, the minus 26kg is the reduction from the 90% stated MIRO. We had 65kg inc heater. We have an awning. The TV does get removed for Europe.

My point still stands a 3500kg van for a family of 4 is doable and we're not all stupid. I've done it, we've had great holidays, on Aires, wild camping and sites. We can only do 3 days off grid electrically, only 2 before the toilet is full and yes swifts are quite flimsy, but that doesn't change my statement.

Fair play, works for you and that is all that matters.

 

[Jonno1103]

I always find these payload threads interesting, I am a '97 licence holder.

I have a 3500kg (originally plated at 3650) 6 berth swift, stated 446kg payload. In the 9 years I've had the van I've had it weighed twice previously. We have spent 3 weeks in Europe every year except the second COVID summer when we visited Wales.

We are a family of 4 (184kg), 75kg of me is included in the MIRO, a dog (12kg) Carry a paddle board (17kg) on and slightly behind the rear axle also one bike (13kg) for trips to top up the fridge. We have never carried the dinette fillers, we don't make it a double and they take up space (-6 kg), I have removed the steel work for it also (-19kg). I have replaced the sink with a stronger but heavier fibreglass one, also changed the mirror which is far lighter than the original glass unit. I carry half tank of water (so -26kgs), plus 15kg in 5l bottles for drinking. Oh and the boules are 5.8kg!

I have just replaced my two 6kg calorlites with standard 6kg calors (extra 14kg!!!) so thought I'd see where I was with loads thinking about either an underslung gas tank or refillables.

I know I'm always close, I've weighed it before, I know what I've put in the van, also what has been removed! I thought I had 77kg left.

Weighbridge figures Friday 13th October 2023

Front 1700kg
Rear 1760kg
Total 3440kg (I know it doesn't add up but that's what the readout read and the paperwork says!)

Bearing in mind we also have wet weather wear in the van I thought this was quite good. I did forget to put in the laptop (5.1kg) which I take on long trips to use multieuscan, even though I've never actually used it while away. For full disclosure I now have an extra 67kg as I only made my son come for the weigh in, he is 18 and has a girlfriend so doesn't want to travel with us anymore!

I agree there are plenty of overloaded vans out there, I have seen them too, but please stop presuming that it is impossible for a 3500kg van and that us younger funsters are stupid!

I don't think anyone is presuming those with a post '97 license are stupid... age & wisdom are not mutually exclusive in the same way that education doesn't necessarily equal intelligence.

However I think you've missed the point a bit.

With the work done you've given yourself a payload of 513kg in your now 4 berth. It's quite a bit more than the 340kg the OP has mentioned in his 4 berth Adamo, a motorhome which doesn't have the luxury of having remedial work done as you have to increase said payload.

 

[Hymer Tony B]

I recently purchased a new motor home. 4 Berth Adamo. The MRO was quoted as 3160 kg with a payload of 340 kg. I loaded the van up weighing stuff as I was loading, give or take a few things. I though I was well in. On the way home from a week away, I stopped at a weighbridge. I was 60 kg over. Half tank of fuel. Waste tank empty. 20 litres fresh water. 10 litres in heater. Wife and dog.

When I studied the Bailey marketing literature, generous 340 kg payload was emphasised, but in the small print it stated that the MRO had a tolerance of +/- 5%. The quoted MRO was based on the weight of the vehicle they submitted for type approval and could have been tweaked since. Adblue is not included. It more likely to be towards the top end of tolerance. Which means my payload could be 181 kg.

The van has 4 beds and 4 seatbelts. Which you would expect is intended to transport 4 people. 3 average sight people would take the van over legal limits. The Bailey experts on the Bailey Facebook site. Say just up plate it, which I can’t. They also commented what family of four would buy a 3500 kg van. I guess most newbies would just look at the number of beds.

Vans should be weighed at the end of the production line a ticket put on the window so that you see the true payload. Or a fictional one.

We have a 2006 Hymer Van plated to 3500kg. Before going to Spain this year took it to weighbridge. Made sure had half tank water, awning two full gaslow bottles, most of clothes we were taking, chairs etc. Total weight 2790kg. All left to do was add weight of Mrs, dog any tinned food and extra items. Left with 300kg plus spare. If I ever upgrade our MH will Defford ask for weight certificate or no sale.

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[Apacheman]

I doff my cap to all out there who have a modern coach built Motorhome, carry 4 people and travel at or under 3500kgs. There’s only two of us plus 11kg dog and we found it impossible. Solution was to up plate to 4060kg. Fortunately we both hold C1 on our licences.

 

[Orion]

I doff my cap to all out there who have a modern coach built Motorhome, carry 4 people and travel at or under 3500kgs. There’s only two of us plus 11kg dog and we found it impossible. Solution was to up plate to 4060kg. Fortunately we both hold C1 on our licences.

Ditto.

Just the two of us as well, and putting it on the weighbridge fully loaded before heading off for a couple of months and it was at 3740kg on a GVW of 3650kg. The £276 to go to 4250kg was money very well spent with VWE

 

[VXman]

Baileys policy is not to issue loan vehicles.

It's the dealers responsibility and I cannot see how either the dealer or the manufacturer can take the motorhome off your hands for 3 months and not compensate you. This vehicle needs to be rejected and your dealer/manufacturer needs some negative publicity putting out there.

So you don’t actually know you’re making an assumption. No manufacture is going to produce a motorhome overweight before you even get in it.

I doubt any motorhome is above the 3.5T when released form the factory but many will be in normal use. They know this.

The other oddity is that a non C1 license allows you to drive upto 3500kgs plus a braked trailer upto 3500kgs.
So a train weight of 7 tons. Yet max single vehicle 3.5ton.

C1 allows up to 7.5ton. Normal B class is up to 3.5.

 

[Phill D]

It's the dealers responsibility and I cannot see how either the dealer or the manufacturer can take the motorhome off your hands for 3 months and not compensate you. This vehicle needs to be rejected and your dealer/manufacturer needs some negative publicity putting out there.


I doubt any motorhome is above the 3.5T when released form the factory but many will be in normal use. They know this.


C1 allows up to 7.5ton. Normal B class is up to 3.5.

I believe I am familiar with the license categories, and B class is as you say upto 3.5t.

The point I was making is as I understand it you are also able to tow a braked trailer upto 3.5t.

It seems silly that you are restricted to a vehicle of 3.5t but a train weight of 7 ton.

However happy to be pointed to the official source that says otherwise

 

[Apacheman]

I believe I am familiar with the license categories, and B class is as you say upto 3.5t.

The point I was making is as I understand it you are also able to tow a braked trailer upto 3.5t.

It seems silly that you are restricted to a vehicle of 3.5t but a train weight of 7 ton.

However happy to be pointed to the official source that says otherwise

Bit like you can drive your 3500kg Motorhome on a B licence. Get a bit of paper that shoves the allowable weight up above that and suddenly you need a C1. No difference in width, length, braking capacity or size and handling of the vehicle, just has a different sticker for the plate and becomes cheaper for the VEL ?????

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[headlight]

I have a 4 berth coach built with 4 belted seats, so presumably designed for 4.
My van is plated at 3,400kgs and front axle 1,750kgs and rear axle 1,900kgs.
I have added 2 solar panels, a second leisure battery and a second calor gas bottle.
Pretty normal additions I would have thought.
There are only 2 of us and in travelling trim, which for us usually means no water as we tend to go places we know we can get water, we weigh 3,180kgs.
I consider that we travel light.
Front axle weighs 1,380kgs and rear axle 1,780kgs.
That leaves us, with 2 persons and no fresh water, with 220kgs spare, 120kgs spare on the rear axle.
I have moved everything I can as far forward as I can, although that is not actually that much as we are a rear lounge front bathroom so most storage is at the rear.
Our 2 rear belted seats are right at the rear of the van, as far back as you can get, likewise our 100 litre fresh water tank.
If I was to carry a full fresh water tank my rear axle would be right on the limit with just 2 of us, possibly just over as the tank is about 5ft behind the rear axle
No fresh water and 2 children in the rear travelling seats plus their stuff and again the rear axle would be on its limit or just over, depending on the weight of the children.
2 children plus any fresh water and we would be over the rear axle limit.
As I said we travel light, even if we are going away for several weeks.
I think it would be very difficult for a family of 4, which presumably is what our 4 berth was designed for, to keep under max weight, certainly the rear axle max weight.