Urgent help needed, (1 Viewer)

[michelle wilson 76]

Hi guys , we have recently purchased a 2004 eura mobil 2.8 jtd fiat ducato base . We are due to leave the UK on Friday, heading for the south of spain , previous owner had it sat in a field for god knows how long.
The Vehicle has been serviced , and had a new mot when we bought it . BUT whilst husband was taking it for a drive recently , he noticed that whilst braking, he is getting juddering through the brake pedal.
The whole of the underneath has been stripped and cleaned , numerous times trying to find the issue.
We have now replaced the suspension , brake shoes , discs , pads, drums , brakes have been bled a couple of times now , and a diagnostic test picked up no faults on the van or abs unit, we are now about to replace the master cylinder , in a desperate attempt to try and save our holiday ,and sanity .
I was wondering if anyone has had any similar problems , or any suggestions as to the cause ..

 

[Srp111]

Take it to an mot place, get them to test under load on the rollers and the shaker plates, should easily throw up what's wrong

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Were they balanced properly? I have had vehicles judder as you apply the brakes and it has just been poor wheel balancing.

Thankyou I will get them to check

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Take it to an mot place, get them to test under load on the rollers and the shaker plates, should easily throw up what's wrong

Thankyou so much , I will see if I can get that done tomorrow.

 

[Kelvin8tor]

Get the sliders on the calipers taken out, cleaned. check the rubber boot on them while you are it.
If it has been sat for a very long time I would replace the sliders with a full service kit.

I had exactly the same issue with a 2007 Eura mobil and then again on a Ducato 2.8JTD

You would like to think that if the discs and pads have been replaced the slider pins on the callipers would have been serviced and checked I know that i always do
when I had the slide pins seize on my old 2.8 Autocruise the brake would bind and overheat

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[michelle wilson 76]

When you do fix it can you please come back and let us know what was the cure please. Thank you

Always nice to know when some gets a problem fixed and what it was.

I will certainly do that ,

 

[Gromett]

You would like to think that if the discs and pads have been replaced the slider pins on the callipers would have been serviced and checked I know that i always do
when I had the slide pins seize on my old 2.8 Autocruise the brake would bind and overheat

When you do it yourself you would do this. You take it to a garage, half of them will just do what you paid them to do. Change the pads? The pads get changed nothing else at all is done.

I say the sliders because I had EXACTLY the same issue with vibration on braking. Did the balancing, tracking, new pads etc etc etc. Took it to a different garage and they identified the slider issue straight away. The rubber boot was missing on one side and the slider was rusted. The caliper was canted and causing the judder on anything other than light braking.

 

[NicM]

As the brake pedal is moving up and down it can only be fluid moving back and forth, you have changed everything on the brakes that can cause that, the ABS will make it happen though, very strange? Can't see a master cylinder causing it.

 

[michelle wilson 76]

I had this on one of our old cars, sat for about 7 months without moving. It snowed one day and I couldn't bother walking to work so sparked it up and everything worked but it juddered under braking. Replaced pads and discs and still there so rebuilt the calipers with a rebuild kit and it went away.

Its looking like the callipers are going to be replaced as well, just to rule out another problem

 

[Gromett]

Its looking like the callipers are going to be replaced as well, just to rule out another problem

I wouldn't spend that much. I would do the sliders first. If this doesn't work then a full caliper service kit.
I doubt a replacement would be needed? Very expensive

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[michelle wilson 76]

When you do it yourself you would do this. You take it to a garage, half of them will just do what you paid them to do. Change the pads? The pads get changed nothing else at all is done.

I say the sliders because I had EXACTLY the same issue with vibration on braking. Did the balancing, tracking, new pads etc etc etc. Took it to a different garage and they identified the slider issue straight away. The rubber boot was missing on one side and the slider was rusted. The caliper was canted and causing the judder on anything other than light braking.

I think the gliders are going to have to be replaced, just to rule out another issue. Although they were removed and cleaned ,there was no rust or defects , they all looked new , apart from one that did have sighs of scratches down the shaft .and when putting it back, it was harder to put in .

 

[herald_400rl]

I wouldn't spend that much. I would do the sliders first. If this doesn't work then a full caliper service kit.
I doubt a replacement would be needed? Very expensive

Agree on the servicing of the callipers. Unless "replaced" is with a salvaged/refurbished part, the cost would (to me anyway) be substantial.

 

[Steve and Denise]

Even though your discs are straight if the sliders are rough/seized that wil cause temporary distortion of the disc under braking but a complete pin/slider kit and refit.

 

[Gromett]

I think the gliders are going to have to be replaced, just to rule out another issue. Although they were removed and cleaned ,there was no rust or defects , they all looked new , apart from one that did have sighs of scratches down the shaft .and when putting it back, it was harder to put in .

Ah if they have been removed and regreased then it is unlikely to be the cause. They would at least have solved the problem for a short period.

 

[Kelvin8tor]

When you do it yourself you would do this. You take it to a garage, half of them will just do what you paid them to do. Change the pads? The pads get changed nothing else at all is done.

I say the sliders because I had EXACTLY the same issue with vibration on braking. Did the balancing, tracking, new pads etc etc etc. Took it to a different garage and they identified the slider issue straight away. The rubber boot was missing on one side and the slider was rusted. The caliper was canted and causing the judder on anything other than light braking.

I do not disagree with you at all I’m speaking from my own experience with seized calliper pins
You would think that the garage would have looked at this before replacing lots of other parts

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[michelle wilson 76]

As the brake pedal is moving up and down it can only be fluid moving back and forth, you have changed everything on the brakes that can cause that, the ABS will make it happen though, very strange? Can't see a master cylinder causing it.

The diagnostic test didn't pick up anything, yet the abs is definitely looking to be the suspect , Its just another one to tick of the list,

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Ah if they have been removed and regreased then it is unlikely to be the cause. They would at least have solved the problem for a short period.

I was hoping it would be something simple , at this rate were going for a complete rebuild

 

[Gromett]

I do not disagree with you at all I’m speaking from my own experience with seized calliper pins
You would think that the garage would have looked at this before replacing lots of other parts

I have just replaced a fuel filter that the garage appears to have screwed up.

As a fulltimer I haven't had a regular garage and used many over the years. I have a 50% hit rate on good vs bad ones.

I know some mechanics on here will perhaps grumble. But there are fewer and fewer mechanics and more and more younger parts cannon firers. And half of those parts cannon firers can't even fit the components properly half the time

 

[michelle wilson 76]

I do not disagree with you at all I’m speaking from my own experience with seized calliper pins
You would think that the garage would have looked at this before replacing lots of other at th

 

[michelle wilson 76]

I have just replaced a fuel filter that the garage appears to have screwed up.

As a fulltimer I haven't had a regular garage and used many over the years. I have a 50% hit rate on good vs bad ones.

I know some mechanics on here will perhaps grumble. But there are fewer and fewer mechanics and more and more younger parts cannon firers. And half of those parts cannon firers can't even fit the components properly half the time

At the minute , all the works are being done by my husband ,neighbour and dad, who were both mechanics, and a mechanic friend . But I will be finding a garage tomorrow ,

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[Kelvin8tor]

I have just replaced a fuel filter that the garage appears to have screwed up.

As a fulltimer I haven't had a regular garage and used many over the years. I have a 50% hit rate on good vs bad ones.

I know some mechanics on here will perhaps grumble. But there are fewer and fewer mechanics and more and more younger parts cannon firers. And half of those parts cannon firers can't even fit the components properly half the time

I know exactly what you mean I always carry out any work on my Motorhome myself including replacing the cam belt water pump recently I am no mechanic just take my time and research the job’s before starting and to be honest I quite enjoy it

 

[pappajohn]

Were the new disc fully degrease with a solvent cleaner.
Any grease on the disc will cause it and the harder you brake the more it will judder.

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Agree on the servicing of the callipers. Unless "replaced" is with a salvaged/refurbished part, the cost would (to me anyway) be substantial.

Thankyou i will be looking into that tomorrow ,

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Were the new disc fully degrease with a solvent cleaner.
Any grease on the disc will cause it and the harder you brake the more it will judder.

I've been told that they were all decreased

 

[Gromett]

At the minute , all the works are being done by my husband ,neighbour and dad, who were both mechanics, and a mechanic friend . But I will be finding a garage tomorrow ,

Ah so you have a trusted and experienced workforce. They would have picked up the sliders if that was what was causing it.
Sorry, That is about the limit of my knowledge/experience.

If it were me I would be getting a caliper servicing kits and doing that first. Full replacements will be expensive and probably unnecessary.

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[NicM]

Good luck with it anyway.

 

[michelle wilson 76]

I know exactly what you mean I always carry out any work on my Motorhome myself including replacing the cam belt water pump recently I am no mechanic just take my time and research the job’s before starting and to be honest I quite enjoy it

Were no mechanics, and this is our first mh, we just wanted to make sure that if we had an issue , we would at least know the basics , rather that paying a garage. No matter the blood sweat and tears ... and lots and lots of swearing

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Ah so you have a trusted and experienced workforce. They would have picked up the sliders if that was what was causing it.
Sorry, That is about the limit of my knowledge/experience.

If it were me I would be getting a caliper servicing kits and doing that first. Full replacements will be expensive and probably unnecessary.

Thankyou , I will be getting a kit in the morning .

 

[Jackd]

Find a garage that has brake rollers. (Mot garage)
You can then identify whether it’s front or rear’s causing the issues.

 

[michelle wilson 76]

Find a garage that has brake rollers. (Mot garage)
You can then identify whether it’s front or rear’s causing the issues.

Thankyou , I'm going to look for a garage shortly

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[Ridgeway]

Just thinking out loud, although the discs and pads are new, could they be A) the wring parts (unlikely i know) or B) warped discs (would pretty obvious on new ones) but I’d never assume new parts being not at fault is my logic.