Motorhome Payload Stop Checks (1 Viewer)

[Crazy Grandad]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

 

[funflair]

If the vehicle is overweight by up to 5% you might get away with a warning but officially no leeway for anything as far as I know, why would there be as overweight is overweight.

 

[Terry242]

I'm a youngster on here and have only been doing this for 12 years - and never been stopped.
In a previous life I was aware of 10% leeway by my local forces but that was a few years ago.

Terry

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[Aspenshaw]

The Enforcement Sanction Policy - December 2022 says

NON-COMMERCIAL DRIVERS
In genuine cases of ignorance e.g. moving house, and where the offence is unlikely to be repeated, a prohibition should be issued, and an overloading guidance leaflet handed to the driver. To take into account the Public Interest Test no Fixed Penalty Notice should be issued in these circumstances.

DVLA do pull in motorhomes. If the Officers think you are not genuine, you stand a good chance of being done.

 

[David and Sally]

The Enforcement Sanction Policy - December 2022 says

NON-COMMERCIAL DRIVERS
In genuine cases of ignorance e.g. moving house, and where the offence is unlikely to be repeated, a prohibition should be issued, and an overloading guidance leaflet handed to the driver. To take into account the Public Interest Test no Fixed Penalty Notice should be issued in these circumstances.

DVLA do pull in motorhomes. If the Officers think you are not genuine, you stand a good chance of being done.

By prohibition do they mean drive no further until unloaded to correct weight?

 

[f6c]

Yes.

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[gus-lopez]

By prohibition do they mean drive no further until unloaded to correct weight?

yes .you ring a cab unload it in to there,drive up the road a while & reload

 

[K9Motorhomers]

Each Force can vary but as a general rule of thumb it is 5%. So in my Force up to 5% a warning. Over that then a Prohibition Order and a fine. The fine is variable depending on the percentage over. So if I put you over a weigh bridge and you are in excess of 5% then you have to remove sufficient to take it back down to your plated weight. You will then need to go over the weigh bridge again. So if I put you over at 3.55pm and you're over and the weighbidge closes at 4pm then there's a good chance you will be parked up for the night until it opens again the following morning which may necessitate the use of a security chain through the front wheels. However if there's children on board or elderly with medical needs etc then discretion can be used so that if I consider you have removed sufficient then you will be allowed to continue your journey. If I were to allow you to continue without removing weight it could be held that I have condoned the offence.
With regard the Enforcement Sanction Policy I would argue that a motorhome is used regularly and as such is not a one off as the driver should know what he/she is carrying and the weights involved.
If memory serves the fines are - Up to 10% = £100. 10 to 14% = £200. 15% and over £300. Over 30% a court summons.
Hope that helps.

Laurence

 

[dawsey]

best is to educate yourself on what you need to know to stay legal, and, if you are not risk averse, how to get away with and bounce off the 5pc ‘allowance’.

Load up, go in weighbridges and educate yourself on what to take off to get within the law if you have to. It’s two things - overall weight and rear axle load.

I bounce on the limits. Plated at 3700 and run max 3850. But at any point of a pull I can drop water and waste and shopping and get to 3700 on the nail. I can move 100kg from behind rear axle to in front of it, to get axle loads to where they have to be .

Be aware. know where you are. Know what to do if measured as over.

Being over compromises braking and handling. Drive slow, but above all leave big braking distance and be ultra ultra careful with long downhills. Learn to really use engine braking and come off the brakes often. If you fry your brakes you will regret it. Don’t go near cooking your brakes unexpectedly in a camper. Respect the long downhills.

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[nicholsong]

best is to educate yourself on what you need to know to stay legal, and, if you are not risk averse, how to get away with and bounce off the 5pc ‘allowance’.

Load up, go in weighbridges and educate yourself on what to take off to get within the law if you have to. It’s two things - overall weight and rear axle load.

I bounce on the limits. Plated at 3700 and run max 3850. But at any point of a pull I can drop water and waste and shopping and get to 3700 on the nail. I can move 100kg from behind rear axle to in front of it, to get axle loads to where they have to be .

Be aware. know where you are. Know what to do if measured as over.

Being over compromises braking and handling. Drive slow, but above all leave big braking distance and be ultra ultra careful with long downhills. Learn to really use engine braking and come off the brakes often. If you fry your brakes you will regret it. Don’t go near cooking your brakes unexpectedly in a camper. Respect the long downhills.

Are you suggesting that the 5% allowance also applies in France?

 

[starquake]

BEar in mind we've posted on here before the reason many of us may not have been stopped is we are not overweight.
(In seriousness)

There is a network of sensors on the motorways able to weigh veichicles as they pass. They only stop the vans they already have an indication are over (probably beyond 5%). Theres a few articles about the sensor network on the fleet news type channels.

My point being "random" stops are probably a small part of enforcement these days, however if you ARE 20% of more overweight, then you may have a higher chance of being caught.

 

[Guigsy]

There is a network of sensors on the motorways able to weigh veichicles as they pass. They only stop the vans they already have an indication are over (probably beyond 5%). Theres a few articles about the sensor network on the fleet news type channels.

Weigh in motion sensors are seriously inaccurate and only really useful for identifying whether a truck is heavily loaded. They are nowhere near accurate enough to tell you're within 5%.

With regards to the 5% leeway... the weighbridge you're currently at might be reading under by 5%. So if you're already bouncing off the limits at that station, you could be more than 5% over when you get weighed by plod. So don't assume 5% is ok.

If you're in an accident and found to be over weight, do you think insurance would pay out?

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[K9Motorhomers]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.
With regards to Insurance: If, let's say, you are 250kgs over weight, I ring the Motor Insurance Bureau who will tell me who your insurers are and put me through to them. I explain the circumstances, I guarantee they will say in that case the insurance is invalid. That's when your problems really start.
The only advice I can give is drive within your legal limits, then there's no problem. If you drive outside your limits because you haven't been stopped in over 20 years, then that's your choice.
Stay legal and safe.
Best regards
Laurence

 

[cyberyacht]

If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.

I'm doomed. We have four travel seats but only one double bed. We never travel with more than the two of us and run pretty close to 3500Kg in fighting trim(full tanks etc). You are suggesting that I should never be above 3350Kg.

 

[K9Motorhomers]

I'm doomed. We have four travel seats but only one double bed. We never travel with more than the two of us and run pretty close to 3500Kg in fighting trim(full tanks etc). You are suggesting that I should never be above 3350Kg.

The point really is don't give them a reason to look closer at you. If you're under they'll wish you a happy holiday and be on your way in a few minutes. If you're over that gives them an excuse to look closer. I wouldn't expect anyone to start ripping seats out etc it was a heads up as to what can happen and the powers they have.
ATB
Laurence

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[Carpmart]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.
With regards to Insurance: If, let's say, you are 250kgs over weight, I ring the Motor Insurance Bureau who will tell me who your insurers are and put me through to them. I explain the circumstances, I guarantee they will say in that case the insurance is invalid. That's when your problems really start.
The only advice I can give is drive within your legal limits, then there's no problem. If you drive outside your limits because you haven't been stopped in over 20 years, then that's your choice.
Stay legal and safe.
Best regards
Laurence

Hello Laurence

Overweight is a binary or ‘absolute’ offence; as in, you either are or are not overweight. The fact you could be overweight if you picked up two passengers or filled with diesel is simply not relevant. All that is relevant is your vehicles weight (inc axle weights) at the point the measurement is taken. It cannot be anything else!

 

[gus-lopez]

For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.

& it is illegal.It is the 'weight at the time' you cannot make up nonsense as you are doing . We all know that the tank could be filled ,people could be collected but legally you do not have a leg to stand on as it is the offence at the time when it is weighed. Nothing to do with "what it is possible to carry & weigh".
This is similar to the nonsense about towing a 3500kg trailer empty when the towing vehicle had the capacity for only 2 tonnes. That was the same " we can assume that it will be loaded & so will be overweight" No you can't. It is the actual weight at the time & nothing else.no buts, it could be, it maybe, they could do,The weight at the time
even the dvsa stated it in writing. You got stopped from scamming people then.
.& no the dvsa won't as they had to stop you lot from doing it years back & if they have changed & started nonsense like that the second word will be off & see you in court.

you cannot be "overweight" based on figments of someones imagination. If he is going to pick up 2 more people & fill the tank full of diesel then you have to stop him when he has done it.

 

[David and Sally]

A bit like doing you for speeding at 70 on a motorway because the car can do 140 and you might speed up.

Anyway, just added 500kg to my payload so happier now and not avoiding known checkpoints

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[Stoosal]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.
With regards to Insurance: If, let's say, you are 250kgs over weight, I ring the Motor Insurance Bureau who will tell me who your insurers are and put me through to them. I explain the circumstances, I guarantee they will say in that case the insurance is invalid. That's when your problems really start.
The only advice I can give is drive within your legal limits, then there's no problem. If you drive outside your limits because you haven't been stopped in over 20 years, then that's your choice.
Stay legal and safe.
Best regards
Laurence

Sorry but I’ve never heard of the law being applied like that. Never.
It’s the weight at the time. You can’t prosecute a person for (not) being overweight by adding on a non existent half tank of fuel and two passengers! You could argue those weights for reaching a calculation for the unladen weight in terms of fuel and driver perhaps but……

There are a number of weigh bridges throughout the country where routine weight checks are carried out on all manner of vehicles. There are no road sensors at these locations. Two I know of are just outside Stranraer and on M74 at Beattock summit. Mostly commercial vehicles but I have seen many motorhomes in them as well.

 

[Barti Ddu]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.
With regards to Insurance: If, let's say, you are 250kgs over weight, I ring the Motor Insurance Bureau who will tell me who your insurers are and put me through to them. I explain the circumstances, I guarantee they will say in that case the insurance is invalid. That's when your problems really start.
The only advice I can give is drive within your legal limits, then there's no problem. If you drive outside your limits because you haven't been stopped in over 20 years, then that's your choice.
Stay legal and safe.
Best regards
Laurence

Wow - it's a long time since I read a thread with so much misinformation and nonsense in it.

There's plenty of incorrect info in this thread, but the above assertion is pretty spectacular!

You cannot be prosecuted, fined or have your vehicle prohibited on the basis that it is capable of being overloaded, but isn't at the time of being weighed!

 

[Carpmart]

Wow - it's a long time since I read a thread with so much misinformation and nonsense in it.

There's plenty more incorrect info in this thread, but the above assertion is pretty spectacular!

You cannot be prosecuted, fined or have your vehicle prohibited on the basis that it is capable of being overloaded, but isn't at the time of being weighed!

Agreed and it’s been pointed out to Laurence several times in the posts above!

I was quite restrained , gus-lopez less so!

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[TheBig1]

Not pulled in personally but seen a fair few pulled at Ringwood and at Rownhams services on the M27. The local one has no in road sensors that I know of, but there is a campaign most years on busy weekends that targets HGVs, horse boxes, boat trailers and motorhomes. My wife's niece got stopped and had to have a horselorry come and collect one of the horses from her trailer. That gave her a good reason to pass her test for the lorry. She also went out and rescued a friend who was overloaded. In her case she got a fine. Her friend went to court as driving not in accordance to her licence (over 3500kg)

Prohibition means that unless you can retest within limit, you cannot continue your journey. Quickest way to lose some weight is dump water tanks and if needs be a taxi for your passengers

 

[Barti Ddu]

Agreed and it’s been pointed out to Laurence several times in the posts above!

I was quite restrained , gus-lopez less so!

Yes - so I see Harvey! Gus never seems to do anything by halves so to be fair that's pretty restrained for him too!

Just noticed that Lawrence is a retired Police Traffic Officer so my "flabber" has been even more "ghasted"!

 

[nicholsong]

Yes - so I see Harvey! Gus never seems to do anything by halves so to be fair that's pretty restrained for him too!

Just noticed that Lawrence is a retired Police Traffic Officer so my "flabber" has been even more "ghasted"!

I wonder whether he ever took an 'offender' to court and was successful, or whether the desk Sargeant invited him to go for a cup of tea while he advised the driver to scarper.

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[dawsey]

Are you suggesting that the 5% allowance also applies in France?

I don't know exactly what the allowable margins are in that country. Likely, as with all else in life, it depends. Depends on what side of bed Monsieur Gendarme got out of, how your van presents, is it riding low, and does the driver come across as a cock to him…

As mentioned, what matters far more than some errant kgs and the possibility of a fine or insurance company wriggling out of a claim is the overall safety of the vehicle especially in respect of other road users. Hence the awareness thing, and why extra careful and ever more careful and safer driving habits is critical if you suspect you are getting close to or may even sometimes be a little over the weight limits. I could take a fine for being a few kgs over, but I couldn’t live with myself if an accident happened injuring someone and I hadn’t done all I could to minimise risk. It isnt black and white, a few kg over can be more than compensated for by risk averse slow driving, large stopping distances and new tyres and brakes. It’s all about how you understand risk and your approach to risk and how to manage it.

Before all the holier than all brigade chime in with screams to always obey the law as proscribed, maybe citing braking distance and kids running unexpectedly into the road - if such circumstances haunt us so, then we should not be driving any sort of hideously slow to stop camper van - even completely unloaded. They all handle terribly and even being driven by a master they present a much elevated risk to others in comparison to pretty much any modern car.

As I tried to point out in the earlier post - if you aren’t sure and are very risk averse, the only solution is to make sure you are safely within the law at all times.

Nobody wants to break the law, but the 3500kg limit and ever more tiny payloads and evaporating granddad rights has for a while made absolute compliance ever more tricky. I dont condone or recommend anyone knowingly breaks the law, I just offer common sense advice on how to mitigate some of the risks associated with ‘flying close to the wind’.

 

[bigtwin]

Hello Laurence

Overweight is a binary or ‘absolute’ offence; as in, you either are or are not overweight. The fact you could be overweight if you picked up two passengers or filled with diesel is simply not relevant. All that is relevant is your vehicles weight (inc axle weights) at the point the measurement is taken. It cannot be anything else!

Agreed.

If the situation as K9Motorhomers describes was applied to 6 berth MHs plated at 3500Kg then they’d all be in the dock!

Sometimes the law, and the interpretation of the same by its enforcers, diverges unjustifiably.

Ian

 

[Bobbejaan]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank.

Laurence

The last time I heard such ridiculous vehicle-related assertions from a Police Officer was back in the 1970's when I was the "Designated Decoy" (= Tailmost Rider) on my motorbike amongst a group of my friends coming back from a weekend at Santa Pod.

A police car followed our group through the Blackwall Tunnel and pulled me over at t'other end and threatened (= gave me a Verbal NIP) to prosecute me for "Obstruction of a Police Officer in the execution of his Duty" because I had stayed at JUST BELOW the speed limit and thereby prevented the Police from catching up with the rest of the riders in front of me.

I couldn't help but to laugh out loud at that and told him I would very much look forward to seeing him in Court .... He ranted at me without success for a few minutes and then he belatedly decided to try to catch the others (he failed ).
Funnily enough, I never did get summonsed.

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[nicholsong]

I don't know exactly what the allowable margins are in that country. Likely, as with all else in life, it depends. Depends on what side of bed Monsieur Gendarme got out of, how your van presents, is it riding low, and does the driver come across as a cock to him…

As mentioned, what matters far more than some errant kgs and the possibility of a fine or insurance company wriggling out of a claim is the overall safety of the vehicle especially in respect of other road users. Hence the awareness thing, and why extra careful and ever more careful and safer driving habits is critical if you suspect you are getting close to or may even sometimes be a little over the weight limits. I could take a fine for being a few kgs over, but I couldn’t live with myself if an accident happened injuring someone and I hadn’t done all I could to minimise risk. It isnt black and white, a few kg over can be more than compensated for by risk averse slow driving, large stopping distances and new tyres and brakes. It’s all about how you understand risk and your approach to risk and how to manage it.

Before all the holier than all brigade chime in with screams to always obey the law as proscribed, maybe citing braking distance and kids running unexpectedly into the road - if such circumstances haunt us so, then we should not be driving any sort of hideously slow to stop camper van - even completely unloaded. They all handle terribly and even being driven by a master they present a much elevated risk to others in comparison to pretty much any modern car.

As I tried to point out in the earlier post - if you aren’t sure and are very risk averse, the only solution is to make sure you are safely within the law at all times.

Nobody wants to break the law, but the 3500kg limit and ever more tiny payloads and evaporating granddad rights has for a while made absolute compliance ever more tricky. I dont condone or recommend anyone knowingly breaks the law, I just offer common sense advice on how to mitigate some of the risks associated with ‘flying close to the wind’.

dawsey. you are shown in your Avatar as being resident in France.

In UK the DVSA do publish their criteria of 5% overload, so it is not a question of which side of the bed M. Flic got out of.

I was enquiring whether the French authorities had a similar policy to that of DVSA

 

[Guigsy]

In UK the DVSA do publish their criteria of 5% overload, so it is not a question of which side of the bed M. Flic got out of.

But it's also kind of irrelevant. Unless you're sure that both the weigh station you checked your weight at, and the station you get taken to by DVSA are both better than 5% accurate combined.

If the one you used at the scrap yard is under reading by 4% and the DVSA one is over reading by a couple of percent, you could be screwed.

 

[bigtwin]

But it's also kind of irrelevant. Unless you're sure that both the weigh station you checked your weight at, and the station you get taken to by DVSA are both better than 5% accurate combined.

If the one you used at the scrap yard is under reading by 4% and the DVSA one is over reading by a couple of percent, you could be screwed.

Indeed, I’ve often thought that when folks express alleged ‘allowances’ that they’re only relevant if you are able to know your weight to 100% accuracy, which, of course, you don’t.

The whole point of the error bands is to reflect that fact so as soon as you start to treat them as part of your allowance then you’re in trouble.

Ian