Motorhome Payload Stop Checks (2 Viewers)

[Crazy Grandad]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

 

[David and Sally]

A bit like doing you for speeding at 70 on a motorway because the car can do 140 and you might speed up.

Anyway, just added 500kg to my payload so happier now and not avoiding known checkpoints

 

[Stoosal]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.
With regards to Insurance: If, let's say, you are 250kgs over weight, I ring the Motor Insurance Bureau who will tell me who your insurers are and put me through to them. I explain the circumstances, I guarantee they will say in that case the insurance is invalid. That's when your problems really start.
The only advice I can give is drive within your legal limits, then there's no problem. If you drive outside your limits because you haven't been stopped in over 20 years, then that's your choice.
Stay legal and safe.
Best regards
Laurence

Sorry but I’ve never heard of the law being applied like that. Never.
It’s the weight at the time. You can’t prosecute a person for (not) being overweight by adding on a non existent half tank of fuel and two passengers! You could argue those weights for reaching a calculation for the unladen weight in terms of fuel and driver perhaps but……

There are a number of weigh bridges throughout the country where routine weight checks are carried out on all manner of vehicles. There are no road sensors at these locations. Two I know of are just outside Stranraer and on M74 at Beattock summit. Mostly commercial vehicles but I have seen many motorhomes in them as well.

 

[Carpmart]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.
With regards to Insurance: If, let's say, you are 250kgs over weight, I ring the Motor Insurance Bureau who will tell me who your insurers are and put me through to them. I explain the circumstances, I guarantee they will say in that case the insurance is invalid. That's when your problems really start.
The only advice I can give is drive within your legal limits, then there's no problem. If you drive outside your limits because you haven't been stopped in over 20 years, then that's your choice.
Stay legal and safe.
Best regards
Laurence

Hello Laurence

Overweight is a binary or ‘absolute’ offence; as in, you either are or are not overweight. The fact you could be overweight if you picked up two passengers or filled with diesel is simply not relevant. All that is relevant is your vehicles weight (inc axle weights) at the point the measurement is taken. It cannot be anything else!

 

[gus-lopez]

For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.

& it is illegal.It is the 'weight at the time' you cannot make up nonsense as you are doing . We all know that the tank could be filled ,people could be collected but legally you do not have a leg to stand on as it is the offence at the time when it is weighed. Nothing to do with "what it is possible to carry & weigh".
This is similar to the nonsense about towing a 3500kg trailer empty when the towing vehicle had the capacity for only 2 tonnes. That was the same " we can assume that it will be loaded & so will be overweight" No you can't. It is the actual weight at the time & nothing else.no buts, it could be, it maybe, they could do,The weight at the time
even the dvsa stated it in writing. You got stopped from scamming people then.
.& no the dvsa won't as they had to stop you lot from doing it years back & if they have changed & started nonsense like that the second word will be off & see you in court.

you cannot be "overweight" based on figments of someones imagination. If he is going to pick up 2 more people & fill the tank full of diesel then you have to stop him when he has done it.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Barti Ddu]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.
With regards to Insurance: If, let's say, you are 250kgs over weight, I ring the Motor Insurance Bureau who will tell me who your insurers are and put me through to them. I explain the circumstances, I guarantee they will say in that case the insurance is invalid. That's when your problems really start.
The only advice I can give is drive within your legal limits, then there's no problem. If you drive outside your limits because you haven't been stopped in over 20 years, then that's your choice.
Stay legal and safe.
Best regards
Laurence

Wow - it's a long time since I read a thread with so much misinformation and nonsense in it.

There's plenty of incorrect info in this thread, but the above assertion is pretty spectacular!

You cannot be prosecuted, fined or have your vehicle prohibited on the basis that it is capable of being overloaded, but isn't at the time of being weighed!

 

[Carpmart]

Wow - it's a long time since I read a thread with so much misinformation and nonsense in it.

There's plenty more incorrect info in this thread, but the above assertion is pretty spectacular!

You cannot be prosecuted, fined or have your vehicle prohibited on the basis that it is capable of being overloaded, but isn't at the time of being weighed!

Agreed and it’s been pointed out to Laurence several times in the posts above!

I was quite restrained , gus-lopez less so!

 

[TheBig1]

Not pulled in personally but seen a fair few pulled at Ringwood and at Rownhams services on the M27. The local one has no in road sensors that I know of, but there is a campaign most years on busy weekends that targets HGVs, horse boxes, boat trailers and motorhomes. My wife's niece got stopped and had to have a horselorry come and collect one of the horses from her trailer. That gave her a good reason to pass her test for the lorry. She also went out and rescued a friend who was overloaded. In her case she got a fine. Her friend went to court as driving not in accordance to her licence (over 3500kg)

Prohibition means that unless you can retest within limit, you cannot continue your journey. Quickest way to lose some weight is dump water tanks and if needs be a taxi for your passengers

 

[Barti Ddu]

Agreed and it’s been pointed out to Laurence several times in the posts above!

I was quite restrained , gus-lopez less so!

Yes - so I see Harvey! Gus never seems to do anything by halves so to be fair that's pretty restrained for him too!

Just noticed that Lawrence is a retired Police Traffic Officer so my "flabber" has been even more "ghasted"!

 

[dawsey]

Are you suggesting that the 5% allowance also applies in France?

I don't know exactly what the allowable margins are in that country. Likely, as with all else in life, it depends. Depends on what side of bed Monsieur Gendarme got out of, how your van presents, is it riding low, and does the driver come across as a cock to him…

As mentioned, what matters far more than some errant kgs and the possibility of a fine or insurance company wriggling out of a claim is the overall safety of the vehicle especially in respect of other road users. Hence the awareness thing, and why extra careful and ever more careful and safer driving habits is critical if you suspect you are getting close to or may even sometimes be a little over the weight limits. I could take a fine for being a few kgs over, but I couldn’t live with myself if an accident happened injuring someone and I hadn’t done all I could to minimise risk. It isnt black and white, a few kg over can be more than compensated for by risk averse slow driving, large stopping distances and new tyres and brakes. It’s all about how you understand risk and your approach to risk and how to manage it.

Before all the holier than all brigade chime in with screams to always obey the law as proscribed, maybe citing braking distance and kids running unexpectedly into the road - if such circumstances haunt us so, then we should not be driving any sort of hideously slow to stop camper van - even completely unloaded. They all handle terribly and even being driven by a master they present a much elevated risk to others in comparison to pretty much any modern car.

As I tried to point out in the earlier post - if you aren’t sure and are very risk averse, the only solution is to make sure you are safely within the law at all times.

Nobody wants to break the law, but the 3500kg limit and ever more tiny payloads and evaporating granddad rights has for a while made absolute compliance ever more tricky. I dont condone or recommend anyone knowingly breaks the law, I just offer common sense advice on how to mitigate some of the risks associated with ‘flying close to the wind’.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Bobbejaan]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank.

Laurence

The last time I heard such ridiculous vehicle-related assertions from a Police Officer was back in the 1970's when I was the "Designated Decoy" (= Tailmost Rider) on my motorbike amongst a group of my friends coming back from a weekend at Santa Pod.

A police car followed our group through the Blackwall Tunnel and pulled me over at t'other end and threatened (= gave me a Verbal NIP) to prosecute me for "Obstruction of a Police Officer in the execution of his Duty" because I had stayed at JUST BELOW the speed limit and thereby prevented the Police from catching up with the rest of the riders in front of me.

I couldn't help but to laugh out loud at that and told him I would very much look forward to seeing him in Court .... He ranted at me without success for a few minutes and then he belatedly decided to try to catch the others (he failed ).
Funnily enough, I never did get summonsed.

 

[Ray-Vic]

But how would you know that you were loaded to 3,950Kg?

Without access to a sub-standard (highly accurate) weighing machine you wouldn’t know.

The weighbridge that you used could be under-reading by 5% and you wouldn’t know with the net result that you’re already overweight.

Ian

You probably wouldn't, it was a hypothetical statement with that chosen as a random number.

I think most of us have weighed enough and carry pretty much the same stuff much of the time so know how close we are to our own limit.

 

[Pausim]

Don't forget you could also infringe your driving licence.

I think your driving licence relates to the class of vehicle not its actual weight. If you go over 3500kg you would be guilty of overloading and possibly driving a dangerous vehicle but not of being unlicensed.

 

[Barti Ddu]

As far as weighbridges, I walked through a farm recently which had a weighbridge, and just out of curiosity walked across it as the weight display was on. It measured my weight accurately to within a couple of kg.

Probably coincidence. A full size 50 tonne vehicle weighbridge will almost certainly have 20kg increments. So if your actual weight is about 80 or 100kg then yes it will appear to be accurate. If you happen to weigh 90kg then it's going to make it seem that the weighbridge has 10kg of error as it will display either 80 or 100 kg. They are designed for weighing HGVs not humans!

Farms occasionally have a 2 or 3 tonne capacity platform weighing machine (weigh plate about the size of a pallet). These typically have 1kg increments and are therefore much more suitable for weighing yourself on.

 

[Barti Ddu]

I weigh 72kg. It was on a 50 tonne vehicle weighbridge.

So what did the weighbridge readout say then - 60kg or 80kg?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Dave and Jan]

Wow. A lot of information on here that is not right. If you get weighed by the authorities, that weight is applicable and can be used to prosecute you if you are overweight. No one can assume you may add more weight after (ie pick more passengers up etc). . If you are overweight you would still be insured at least for 3rd party liability (minimum cover) Insurers may argue about your comprehensive cover if you were involved in an accident and somehow they were made aware you were overweight? That said best thing is to make sure you are running within your limits.

 

[Northernraider]

A couple of other points, if I may, regarding weights.
We are permitted to add on certain weights.
For example: If whilst at a weigh bridge you have half a tank of fuel on board the weight of the extra fuel required to fill it can be added. If you have 2 extra travelling seats which are not being used then 75kgs can be added per seat. The reasoning behind this is that you could leave the weigh bridge and call at the next services and collect 2 people you have arranged to take on holiday with you and then fill your diesel tank. Now we may choose not to do that, however, the DVSA guys will.
With regards to Insurance: If, let's say, you are 250kgs over weight, I ring the Motor Insurance Bureau who will tell me who your insurers are and put me through to them. I explain the circumstances, I guarantee they will say in that case the insurance is invalid. That's when your problems really start.
The only advice I can give is drive within your legal limits, then there's no problem. If you drive outside your limits because you haven't been stopped in over 20 years, then that's your choice.
Stay legal and safe.
Best regards
Laurence

Good explanation of why people dislike the police

 

[Northernraider]

Agreed and it’s been pointed out to Laurence several times in the posts above!

I was quite restrained , gus-lopez less so!

Yes but there's also a misconception that you're innocent till proven guilty.

But in the eyes of most police these days you're guilty till you prove yourself innocent. That's why they have attitude turned up full blast from the onset.

 

[Nirvanauk]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

Not sure if it matters if you are carrying food or fuel. If you are over weight then you are overweight.

 

[Stoosal]

I feel you are missing the point made. A plate affixed to the vehicle that is correct for over 3500kg throws doubt onto the data recorded by DVLA. We all know that they regularly get data entry wrong. Just that potential for it to be official error and some evidence that the van complies with requirements to be driven at a higher revenue weight are enough to complicate any potential prosecution. "They" the police at a roadside check may well look the vehicle up on the database, but it is likely they will just advise you to get the matter of the paperwork sorted. It costs money and a lot of man hours to prosecute and the situation these days is that both are in short supply. Better that resources get used for more serious and clearcut cases

Again, I am not suggesting anyone deliberately test this. If it went to court, I am sure that any good solicitor would use the evidence that the vehicle could be legal in your defence

No chance….if it’s on DVLA database that is what is used at weigh time. Unless documents could be produced at the time to show correct weight then DVLA record used. If there are different plates what is in DVLA records will be what is used……offload excess weight. If it goes to prosecution the driver/operator would need to produce the evidence to correct DVLA record. The plated weight also affects who can drive it, tax etc so it’s not just a get it fixed if you can be bothered, at some time, maybe, please, type of thing. There is also a growing trend for commercial companies to deliberately downplate vehicles for licence and operator purposes.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Pausim]

Those that weigh their vans and know they have spare payload seem happy, the other 99% (of which I am one), have a vague idea of available payload, however, have never weighed their van and are unlikely to ever do so, however, they load their vans in a perfectly sensible manner, don't try and transport steel girders for the local scrap man and they drive off are equally as happy because they have a bit of common sense and would know if the van felt different, unstable or dangerous.

Payload figures are often a work of fiction. How do you even have a vague idea if you have never weighed it.

 

[funflair]

If the vehicle is overweight by up to 5% you might get away with a warning but officially no leeway for anything as far as I know, why would there be as overweight is overweight.

 

[Terry242]

I'm a youngster on here and have only been doing this for 12 years - and never been stopped.
In a previous life I was aware of 10% leeway by my local forces but that was a few years ago.

Terry

 

[Aspenshaw]

The Enforcement Sanction Policy - December 2022 says

NON-COMMERCIAL DRIVERS
In genuine cases of ignorance e.g. moving house, and where the offence is unlikely to be repeated, a prohibition should be issued, and an overloading guidance leaflet handed to the driver. To take into account the Public Interest Test no Fixed Penalty Notice should be issued in these circumstances.

DVLA do pull in motorhomes. If the Officers think you are not genuine, you stand a good chance of being done.

 

[David and Sally]

The Enforcement Sanction Policy - December 2022 says

NON-COMMERCIAL DRIVERS
In genuine cases of ignorance e.g. moving house, and where the offence is unlikely to be repeated, a prohibition should be issued, and an overloading guidance leaflet handed to the driver. To take into account the Public Interest Test no Fixed Penalty Notice should be issued in these circumstances.

DVLA do pull in motorhomes. If the Officers think you are not genuine, you stand a good chance of being done.

By prohibition do they mean drive no further until unloaded to correct weight?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[f6c]

Yes.

 

[gus-lopez]

By prohibition do they mean drive no further until unloaded to correct weight?

yes .you ring a cab unload it in to there,drive up the road a while & reload

 

[K9Motorhomers]

Each Force can vary but as a general rule of thumb it is 5%. So in my Force up to 5% a warning. Over that then a Prohibition Order and a fine. The fine is variable depending on the percentage over. So if I put you over a weigh bridge and you are in excess of 5% then you have to remove sufficient to take it back down to your plated weight. You will then need to go over the weigh bridge again. So if I put you over at 3.55pm and you're over and the weighbidge closes at 4pm then there's a good chance you will be parked up for the night until it opens again the following morning which may necessitate the use of a security chain through the front wheels. However if there's children on board or elderly with medical needs etc then discretion can be used so that if I consider you have removed sufficient then you will be allowed to continue your journey. If I were to allow you to continue without removing weight it could be held that I have condoned the offence.
With regard the Enforcement Sanction Policy I would argue that a motorhome is used regularly and as such is not a one off as the driver should know what he/she is carrying and the weights involved.
If memory serves the fines are - Up to 10% = £100. 10 to 14% = £200. 15% and over £300. Over 30% a court summons.
Hope that helps.

Laurence

 

[dawsey]

best is to educate yourself on what you need to know to stay legal, and, if you are not risk averse, how to get away with and bounce off the 5pc ‘allowance’.

Load up, go in weighbridges and educate yourself on what to take off to get within the law if you have to. It’s two things - overall weight and rear axle load.

I bounce on the limits. Plated at 3700 and run max 3850. But at any point of a pull I can drop water and waste and shopping and get to 3700 on the nail. I can move 100kg from behind rear axle to in front of it, to get axle loads to where they have to be .

Be aware. know where you are. Know what to do if measured as over.

Being over compromises braking and handling. Drive slow, but above all leave big braking distance and be ultra ultra careful with long downhills. Learn to really use engine braking and come off the brakes often. If you fry your brakes you will regret it. Don’t go near cooking your brakes unexpectedly in a camper. Respect the long downhills.

 

[nicholsong]

best is to educate yourself on what you need to know to stay legal, and, if you are not risk averse, how to get away with and bounce off the 5pc ‘allowance’.

Load up, go in weighbridges and educate yourself on what to take off to get within the law if you have to. It’s two things - overall weight and rear axle load.

I bounce on the limits. Plated at 3700 and run max 3850. But at any point of a pull I can drop water and waste and shopping and get to 3700 on the nail. I can move 100kg from behind rear axle to in front of it, to get axle loads to where they have to be .

Be aware. know where you are. Know what to do if measured as over.

Being over compromises braking and handling. Drive slow, but above all leave big braking distance and be ultra ultra careful with long downhills. Learn to really use engine braking and come off the brakes often. If you fry your brakes you will regret it. Don’t go near cooking your brakes unexpectedly in a camper. Respect the long downhills.

Are you suggesting that the 5% allowance also applies in France?