Motorhome Payload Stop Checks (1 Viewer)

[Crazy Grandad]

Have any of you funsters ever been stopped in the UK and had your weight checked. Just been on weighbridge and wondered if there is any leeway with regard to carrying extra food and fuel on a 3500 van weight

 

[Charente16]

There is a National allowance for being over the speed limit in France, but I don't think there is any allowance for weight as the Law has to applied equally ie Private and Commercial which could be upto 40 tons.

 

[Pausim]

Perhaps some of the confusion concerning travel seats arises from the new EU Regulation concerning minimum payloads. This regulation does include 75kg per travel seat in the calculation. However it has no bearing whatsoever on how we load and drive our motorhomes, it is simply a regulation to stop manufacturers making new motorhomes with no payload. It is not a driving regulation but a manufacturing one.

 

[Soycd]

Perhaps some of the confusion concerning travel seats arises from the new EU Regulation concerning minimum payloads. This regulation does include 75kg per travel seat in the calculation. However it has no bearing whatsoever on how we load and drive our motorhomes, it is simply a regulation to stop manufacturers making new motorhomes with no payload. It is not a driving regulation but a manufacturing one.

I was about to say the same thing. I think too many motorhomes/PVCs are being made with insufficient payload. By the time this and that has been added then a lot of folk are close to the limit. We have a new Adria 640 SLB, and compared to our last PVC the payload is not as good. Having said that, I knew this would be the case before we ordered. We are both lucky in that we have C1 enabling us to up plate to 3900kg which I am in the process of doing. We've been motorhoming for nearly 30 years and have never been stopped/weighed. There is always a first time though! It's not worth the risk to go overweight. Most insurance companies would take a pretty dim view if you were overweight and were involved in a serious accident.

 

[Guigsy]

Perhaps some of the confusion concerning travel seats arises from the new EU Regulation concerning minimum payloads. This regulation does include 75kg per travel seat in the calculation. However it has no bearing whatsoever on how we load and drive our motorhomes, it is simply a regulation to stop manufacturers making new motorhomes with no payload. It is not a driving regulation but a manufacturing one.

Wasn't that with regards to calculating minimum payload? To prevent convertors from selling vans with a dozen seats and 10kg of payload. That's not the same as whether your van is overloaded when it sits on the scales right now.

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[stevewagner]

The belief that a motorhome being overloaded suddenly makes it dangerous doesn’t stack up. You can have them uprated without any works to the brakes or steering required. The base vehicles are designed for many different loading combination’s

 

[Guigsy]

The belief that a motorhome being overloaded suddenly makes it dangerous doesn’t stack up. You can have them uprated without any works to the brakes or steering required. The base vehicles are designed for many different loading combination’s

I think there's 3 layers of consideration.
1. Is the vehicle physically safe to carry the load?
2. Is the driver allowed to drive it?
3. Is it correctly registered?

So yeah, you could be "safe" with the first two, and it's purely a tax issue that means you shouldn't be driving it.

 

[Pausim]

Wasn't that with regards to calculating minimum payload? To prevent convertors from selling vans with a dozen seats and 10kg of payload. That's not the same as whether your van is overloaded when it sits on the scales right now.

Yes that is what I was trying to say “it is simply a regulation to stop manufacturers making new motorhomes with no payload”.

 

[Old Gibber]

There is a National allowance for being over the speed limit in France, but I don't think there is any allowance for weight as the Law has to applied equally ie Private and Commercial which could be upto 40 tons.

I bet there will be an allowance. The reason we have such an allowance in the UK is to account for any errors in weighbridges -same with speeding it is to allow for errors in the equipment. Those same reasons will still apply in France. However, whether speeding or weight, either here or abroad, stay under the limit.

 

[Old Gibber]

I think there's 3 layers of consideration.
1. Is the vehicle physically safe to carry the load?
2. Is the driver allowed to drive it?
3. Is it correctly registered?

So yeah, you could be "safe" with the first two, and it's purely a tax issue that means you shouldn't be driving it.

Don't forget you could also infringe your driving licence.

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[Carpmart]

TBH, this whole thread has concerned and indeed somewhat annoyed me. New and or inexperienced members could read what was posted and have a very incorrect view of the police and DVSA policy and practices WRT to vehicle weight.

On one side and on a purely personal level, I’m perfectly fine with weight on my vehicle. I can be close to my 7.3T (upgraded from 6.5T) when I’m carrying nearly 500kg of water, but I’m still just under. If I were ever over weight, through poorly calibrated weighing equipment, fresh water dump resolves my issue if the enforcement equipment is inaccurate.

The second point is what I see as very misleading information from a member who quite frankly, has either not explained their point correctly, or has been in their previous career, poorly trained and applying an interpretation of regulation and law as opposed to actual law.

The law WRT to overweight can only and should only be applied to what is presented (the vehicle) at the time of any potential offence being committed. It’s binary and the vehicle is either over or under. K9Motorhomers have you any further clarification you want to offer up to your post yesterday?

The noise around 5% tolerances etc etc is just that, noise! If the enforcement agencies/Police are not applying the regulation/law correctly at the point of being weighed, the being 5% over is irrelevant, what figure would you use to determine if you were over or not? There is only one number that matters, that’s the LED screen showing the kilograms. If that is not the case, then no one has a chance of complying.

 

[Old Gibber]

The noise around 5% tolerances etc etc is just that, noise! If the enforcement agencies/Police are not applying the regulation/law correctly at the point of being weighed, the being 5% over is irrelevant, what figure would you use to determine if you were over or not? There is only one number that matters, that’s the LED screen showing the kilograms. If that is not the case, then no one has a chance of complying.

Perhaps you ought to read government guidance:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-roadside-checks-fines-and-financial-deposits

 

[Guigsy]

Perhaps you ought to read government guidance: View attachment 882775

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-roadside-checks-fines-and-financial-deposits

Yes. But that's too allow for inaccuracies in weigh stations. Not so everyone can be 5% over without issues.

 

[Soycd]

I think there's 3 layers of consideration.
1. Is the vehicle physically safe to carry the load?
2. Is the driver allowed to drive it?
3. Is it correctly registered?

So yeah, you could be "safe" with the first two, and it's purely a tax issue that means you shouldn't be driving it.

I'd add to that insurance. If you up rate and don't tell your insurance company you could have a problem. The van is no longer the same specification that you insured it as.

 

[Carpmart]

Perhaps you ought to read government guidance: View attachment 882775

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...-roadside-checks-fines-and-financial-deposits

Sorry you missed the salient point. If as asserted by the former Traffic Police Officer yesterday, they (police and DVSA) are not using the weight as weighed, but the possible weight if your seats were all filled and the fuel tank full then indeed what does one measure the 5% tolerance from? The weight shown on the scales or some hypothetical weight being invented? Hence my comment!

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[Ray-Vic]

The problem with 'using' the permitted 5% leeway is that you could be using up that leeway when needed. I am rated at 3,850 kg, so "technically" could run at 4,042 kg before attracting a fine and/or prohibition. Let's say I take advantage of that and load my vehicle to 3,950 kg as I have taken my 2 electric bikes and large awning, knowing that I am within the 5% leeway safety net. If I am then pulled up and weighed on a bridge which, coincidentally, happens to be measuring 5% over, which is after all what this leeway is there to allow for, then I will be coming in at 4,175 kg, significantly over my 4,042 kg safety net figure.

It's not so much of an issue if you carry loads of water etc. which can be readily dumped, but if you're on your way to a land far far away, I could see this being a royal pain in the backside with respects to the prohibition, not to mention the fine and other potential knock-on penalties.

I've never been stopped, but have weighed a few times and once was a fair bit over (within the 5%), so am very careful now to make sure that we stay within our limits, just in case.

 

[bigtwin]

Let's say I take advantage of that and load my vehicle to 3,950 kg

But how would you know that you were loaded to 3,950Kg?

Without access to a sub-standard (highly accurate) weighing machine you wouldn’t know.

The weighbridge that you used could be under-reading by 5% and you wouldn’t know with the net result that you’re already overweight.

Ian

 

[Ray-Vic]

But how would you know that you were loaded to 3,950Kg?

Without access to a sub-standard (highly accurate) weighing machine you wouldn’t know.

The weighbridge that you used could be under-reading by 5% and you wouldn’t know with the net result that you’re already overweight.

Ian

You probably wouldn't, it was a hypothetical statement with that chosen as a random number.

I think most of us have weighed enough and carry pretty much the same stuff much of the time so know how close we are to our own limit.

 

[Old Gibber]

As far as weighbridges, I walked through a farm recently which had a weighbridge, and just out of curiosity walked across it as the weight display was on. It measured my weight accurately to within a couple of kg.

 

[Pausim]

Don't forget you could also infringe your driving licence.

I think your driving licence relates to the class of vehicle not its actual weight. If you go over 3500kg you would be guilty of overloading and possibly driving a dangerous vehicle but not of being unlicensed.

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[Soycd]

As far as weighbridges, I walked through a farm recently which had a weighbridge, and just out of curiosity walked across it as the weight display was on. It measured my weight accurately to within a couple of kg.

I had similar. Went to the office and the guy told me the weight without me in it. Did the ‘official’weigh in and it was spot on to the exact kg. Even checked my weight when I got home!

 

[Mzracer]

If you're in an accident and found to be over weight, do you think insurance would pay out?

Most likely.

 

[Barti Ddu]

As far as weighbridges, I walked through a farm recently which had a weighbridge, and just out of curiosity walked across it as the weight display was on. It measured my weight accurately to within a couple of kg.

Probably coincidence. A full size 50 tonne vehicle weighbridge will almost certainly have 20kg increments. So if your actual weight is about 80 or 100kg then yes it will appear to be accurate. If you happen to weigh 90kg then it's going to make it seem that the weighbridge has 10kg of error as it will display either 80 or 100 kg. They are designed for weighing HGVs not humans!

Farms occasionally have a 2 or 3 tonne capacity platform weighing machine (weigh plate about the size of a pallet). These typically have 1kg increments and are therefore much more suitable for weighing yourself on.

 

[Barti Ddu]

TBH, this whole thread has concerned and indeed somewhat annoyed me. New and or inexperienced members could read what was posted and have a very incorrect view of the police and DVSA policy and practices WRT to vehicle weight.

On one side and on a purely personal level, I’m perfectly fine with weight on my vehicle. I can be close to my 7.3T (upgraded from 6.5T) when I’m carrying nearly 500kg of water, but I’m still just under. If I were ever over weight, through poorly calibrated weighing equipment, fresh water dump resolves my issue if the enforcement equipment is inaccurate.

The second point is what I see as very misleading information from a member who quite frankly, has either not explained their point correctly, or has been in their previous career, poorly trained and applying an interpretation of regulation and law as opposed to actual law.

The law WRT to overweight can only and should only be applied to what is presented (the vehicle) at the time of any potential offence being committed. It’s binary and the vehicle is either over or under. K9Motorhomers have you any further clarification you want to offer up to your post yesterday?

The noise around 5% tolerances etc etc is just that, noise! If the enforcement agencies/Police are not applying the regulation/law correctly at the point of being weighed, the being 5% over is irrelevant, what figure would you use to determine if you were over or not? There is only one number that matters, that’s the LED screen showing the kilograms. If that is not the case, then no one has a chance of complying.

You're not the only one Harvey. It's also concerned and annoyed me in equal measure. It's a subject that I know quite a bit about from my life before recent retirement!

If I have time over the next few days I'll try and make a series of posts about vehicle weights, weighbridges, best practice, etc., to try and dispel some of the myths and disinformation that have cropped up from time to time on the forum, but particularly in this thread.

 

[bigtwin]

If I have time over the next few days I'll try and make a series of posts about vehicle weights, weighbridges, best practice, etc., to try and dispel some of the myths and disinformation that have cropped up from time to time on the forum, but particularly in this thread.

That would be appreciated.

Ian

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[gus-lopez]

I was quite restrained , @gus-lopez less so!

I struggle with people who are being paid to do a job & not knowing what the rules are. It completely unhinges me.

 

[Old Gibber]

Probably coincidence. A full size 50 tonne vehicle weighbridge will almost certainly have 20kg increments. So if your actual weight is about 80 or 100kg then yes it will appear to be accurate. If you happen to weigh 90kg then it's going to make it seem that the weighbridge has 10kg of error as it will display either 80 or 100 kg. They are designed for weighing HGVs not humans!

Farms occasionally have a 2 or 3 tonne capacity platform weighing machine (weigh plate about the size of a pallet). These typically have 1kg increments and are therefore much more suitable for weighing yourself on.

I weigh 72kg. It was on a 50 tonne vehicle weighbridge.

 

[Barti Ddu]

I weigh 72kg. It was on a 50 tonne vehicle weighbridge.

So what did the weighbridge readout say then - 60kg or 80kg?

 

[Guigsy]

And just because the increments are 20kg, it doesn't mean it's accurate to 20kg. At 3.5t, it might be off by 180kg.

 

[Barti Ddu]

And just because the increments are 20kg, it doesn't mean it's accurate to 20kg. At 3.5t, it might be off by 180kg.

No - not really. I'm a bit busy at the moment, but give me a day or two, and I'll knock together an "Idiots Guide to Weighbridges".

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[bigtwin]

And just because the increments are 20kg, it doesn't mean it's accurate to 20kg. At 3.5t, it might be off by 180kg.

The difference between resolution and accuracy.

Ian