Yet another ridiculous speed limit.

[joe and sue]

If we reduce speed limits to 20mph for vehicles do we need to introduce a 10mph limit for cyclists....? Maybe 3mph for runners. Make it safer for them?

NO NO NO, you do not seem to understand, All accidents / crashes / RTA's etc are all caused by motorists, so they / we are the only ones who need to be educated and penalised at every opportunity,
How do i know this? because the media keep telling us

 

[GJH]

So there is no point in having a highways agency or local authorities input then?

Certainly no point in the Highways Agency (subsequently Highways England and now National Highways) as we are discussing Wales which it does not cover (Wales having its own Trunk Road Agencies).
There is commonality with local roads so local traffic authorities (departments of local authorities) are relevant but (as with the agencies) they have to operate within the laws set by the national legislatures.
Both local authorities and national legislatures are run by politicians and they, of course, are the ones who make the laws.

 

[maison]

If we reduce speed limits to 20mph for vehicles do we need to introduce a 10mph limit for cyclists....? Maybe 3mph for runners. Make it safer for them?

Last week we were overtaken by a group of cyclists within a 20mph limit. As they generally don’t have speedometers they obviously didn’t realise that they were breaking the law.

 

[63720]

Many road adjustments schemes are being applied where the demands are greatest. Public transport to remote areas and generally needs to be improved... This needs to be happening faster and not at the expense of improving private transport which will only expand to fill the increased capacity.

Ironically as well, speeding and accident rates plus deaths in the countryside are far higher than many people consider.

Heard on the TV yesterday that grants to local authorities transport schemes could be cut from September putting more rural and subsided public transport at risk. Also, I believe, funding has been cut by as much as 50% since 2010....unless of course you live in La La land where funding is thrown at you, even late and £ms over budget but hey ho!

 

[GJH]

Last week we were overtaken by a group of cyclists within a 20mph limit. As they generally don’t have speedometers they obviously didn’t realise that they were breaking the law.

You'll probably be as surprised as I was to find out that the limits don't apply to cyclists unless there is a local limit. Cyclists could, though, be charged with careless or dangerous cycling.

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[Nedge68]

once got 3 points for diving at 40 mph on the M50 on a summers morning at 07:30, because somebody decided that 30 mph was appropriate on a contraflow, must have made an absolute fortune.
20 mph is not appropriate everywhere, In some places it is probably to fast, we need road safety departments to make reasoned judgements if the want people to obey rules. in Germany if you are caught speeding to often you are medically assessed to see if you are of sound enough mind to keep your license.

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

I'm dreading when I can no longer drive. When's the next bus to town? A week on Monday at 9.25, coming back at 4pm!
or £30 in a taxi

 

[Yorick]

once got 3 points for diving at 40 mph on the M50 on a summers morning at 07:30,

How deep was the water?

 

[RobertJary]

The variable speed limit on the M5 around Bristol works very well, because they can alter the speed limits to keep traffic moving.

Not convinced as it's often set to 50 or 60 mph when there's hardly any traffic around.

 

[Barti Ddu]

Discuss fellow road warriors (and please move over if you are a slow driver to allow normal traffic to make progress). Thank you.

"POOP, POOP", said Mr. Toad!

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[MattR]

No they

Last week we were overtaken by a group of cyclists within a 20mph limit. As they generally don’t have speedometers they obviously didn’t realise that they were breaking the law.

No they weren't. The speed limit for bikes is 30mph.

Do Cyclists Have to Obey Speed Limits?

Discover whether cyclists have to obey road speed limits, if cyclists can be fined for speeding and whether cyclists have actually been fined.

discerningcyclist.com

 

[Stoosal]

Generally speaking 20mph limits, or any other for that matter, are not applicable to cyclists. A 20mph limit will allow cyclists to overtake motor vehicles without breaking the law.

 

[tonyidle]

I don't consider where I live to be particularly remote. We're on the West Coast main line and within 5 miles of the M6. Yet when working I couldn't get to Manchester by 0900 for a meeting and would have had to wait until evening for a return train. More locally a bus to Barrow (40miles) takes over 2 hours because the route it takes meanders through numerous villages. A quick visit to Windermere (10 miles) is a days job. Without massive subsidies none of the villages nearby can expect more than 1 bus per day.

 

[Beltie]

"POOP, POOP", said Mr. Toad!

Yes the OP felt a bit like 'Life on Mars' meets 'Top Gear' !

 

[PP Bear]

I will beg to differ on that paragraph of you post I have had dyslexia all my life struggle to read write in my early years.
I know lots of drivers HGV as well who have the problem's you state I have had one speeding infringement in over 36 years of driving my brother a HGV driver has never had a speeding infringement.
My son is one of the most compliant drivers I have ever know I and member of the institute of advanced drivers he certainly knows the difrance between 20 and 30 mph.
Bill

No Bill, I agree to all of that and well done on keeping it all safe for so many years and congratulations to your son too, nice one.

It wasn’t meant to be about those with specific learning difficulties, as it’s a topic close to my heart, having written the army policy for all specific learning difficulties, plus attended many training courses to understand all the details involved, of which dyslexia is just one of them.

Its a generic issue Bill. REME are meant to recruit the top 10% of the population as new entries and only the top 4% make it to technician and then the top 2% make it to be avionics technicians, however once they pass out phase 1 and arrive at phase 2, we spend literally months teaching basic maths, science and English, with most arriving with an academic ability of around a 13 year old, so need education to bring them up to speed or they’d never get through the very rigorous trading. Indeed lots don’t and get retraded or re-badged to different cap badges, where the courses are easier. They really excel by then as we’ve invested so much time and effort in their education. Once trained in the Corps they go on to be great lads and lasers, excellent soldiers and very proficient tradesmen, but picture the same kids who have left school and not taken any extra education and then put behind the wheel and there will be hazards waiting in the wings.

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[PP Bear]

"POOP, POOP", said Mr. Toad!

I thought it was TOOT TOOT said Mr Toad

We need to get out more

 

[Northernraider]

Its been 20mph around here on most streets for years ...most also have speedbumps .. i tend to drive at between 30 and 40 ... sometimes 50 if the roads quiet . From what i see most do the same .

I last saw a police car in may i think... Stopped outside a takeaway.

I deliver fast food ...it would be miss information if i drove at 20

 

[63720]

Interesting read ..

Reported road casualties in Great Britain, provisional estimates: year ending June 2021

www.gov.uk

 

[Soycd]

Agree with all this except the premise that "there are way too many vehicles on roads these days".
It could equally be argued that there is not enough road space for the vehicles that want to use them. And still more is taken away to give more space to empty buses and the occasional summer cyclist.

But, yeah, 20mph in resi areas and outside schools, I'd vote for.

I think part of the problem is there are too many cars, but not through desire but through need. Shopping is now virtually impossible at a reasonable price unless you can get to a large supermarket. Public transport, unless you live in a very large city is poor, unreliable and expensive. It's not uncommon to see houses with 3+ cars on a drive, where 40 years ago there might have been one, or indeed none. Poor planning has lead to roads being built without cycle paths or in some cases footpaths, leading to too many cyclists/pedestrians on roads. The list goes on, and on. It's a real Catch 22. I try to use my bike as often as possible, but avoiding main roads is practically impossible, this then pi...es off motorists. I never had that problem in Germany with its fantastic cycling network. I'd like to be able to do the shopping without having to use the car, but that's virtually impossible as well. I agree with you, all residential areas and school areas need at least a 20mph limit. It saves lives, however, others don't agree.

 

[DDJC]

I don't consider where I live to be particularly remote. We're on the West Coast main line and within 5 miles of the M6. Yet when working I couldn't get to Manchester by 0900 for a meeting and would have had to wait until evening for a return train. More locally a bus to Barrow (40miles) takes over 2 hours because the route it takes meanders through numerous villages. A quick visit to Windermere (10 miles) is a days job. Without massive subsidies none of the villages nearby can expect more than 1 bus per day.

Kent County Council has today published a huge list of withdrawn bus services that have been notified to them by the bus companies. I looked at how it applied to my immediate area and we no longer have buses! There is a train station within walking distance, but as I said, I find all public transport singularly revolting and don't use any of it. However, I am sure that there are many elderly people and school children who completely depend on it.

I don't do social media or anything like that, but I understand from colleagues that thousands of people, especially parents, are incensed and depending a reversal.

For avoidance of doubt, the reason is that the Government has withdrawn the Local Transport Fund (LTF) from every council in the country, although I understand that London TFL is still hugely supported by the tax payer.

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[Barti Ddu]

I thought it was TOOT TOOT said Mr Toad

We need to get out more

I think you're right.

Toady "Toots", and it's his car that "Poops"!

Poop poop! Mr Toad’s car in action at Beaulieu

Fans of The Wind in the Willows will be delighted to see Mr Toad’s car, from the film adaption of Kenneth Grahame’s story, in action at Beaulieu this summer

www.beaulieu.co.uk

 

[Paul and Val]

"POOP, POOP", said Mr. Toad!

Absolutely love it!

 

[Paul and Val]

This just in from Connexions newspaper. Even I as a French resident have no idea if it is a 80 or 90kmph limit! It changes from Department to Department.

Puy-de-Dôme returns to 90km/h speed limit ​

Puy-de-Dôme (Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes) has become the latest department whose local authorities have chosen to go back to a 90km/h speed limit on local routes départementales.

The decision will come into effect on August 1, when the current 80km/h limit will come to an end.

There will remain 330 ‘high-risk’ sections of road where a 70km/h limit will remain in place.

Driver association 40 millions d’automobilistes has welcomed the “political bravery of [departmental] councillors who are taking responsibility and proving the inefficacy of the 80km/h [speed limit].”

The group is calling for a universal return to 90km/h on all departmental roads, claiming that “between 2013 and 2019 [the 80km/h limit was introduced in 2018], the number of accidents has stayed exactly the same. It is therefore completely false to say that the 80km/h measure has saved lives.”

Puy-de-Dôme is not the only department to have gone back to a 90km/h limit on sections of road; others include: Creuse, Cher, Charente, Dordogne, Aveyron, Hérault and Calvados.

Speed camera fines surge in 2021​

The amount of money received by the French state in the form of speeding fines rose sharply in 2021 to €859million, around €100million more than in 2020.

Some €655million came from speeding penalty notices, and the remaining €204million from fines increased due to non-payment.

The rise in the number of speeding fines being paid can partly be attributed to the end of Covid lockdown restrictions, but also to the installation of 204 new fixed cameras in France.

The figures for 2021 are not thought to have been affected significantly by the proliferation of France’s new private speed camera cars, which are expected to have a greater impact on the numbers for this year.


France now has 4,422 speed and red light cameras in place across the country, and there should be 4,500 by the end of this year.

The record for the total sum paid in speeding fines was €1.013billion in 2017.

 

[tribalbrit]

Apparently if it is the law we all have to follow it without question.
Hope they never introduce a law to jump off a cliff or the lemmings amongst us surely will.

 

[mitzimad]

Less people die when hit by cars that are travelling at 20 mph than at 30 mph. Isn't that enough reason to reduce the speed limit?

https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/11-01-T30.pdf

stop cars altogether and no one dies whats the acceptable death toll its been dropping since the sixties due to better design and road layout that seperatecars and others

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[busby]

I posted this on a similar thread that’s running. My 20mph experience.

”Our Village has a 20mph limit, completely ignored by 90% and 90% do not live in the Village but use it has a Rat Run even the DD buses pile through despite Speed Bumps and more importantly a School.”

Narrowing the road and chicanes are more effective than speed humps basically because most drivers have poor judgment when it comes to narrow gaps..BUSBY.

 

[busby]

stop cars altogether and no one dies whats the acceptable death toll its been dropping since the sixties due to better design and road layout that seperatecars and others

Zero would be an acceptable number..BUSBY.

 

[Littlewheels]

Narrowing the road and chicanes are more effective than speed humps basically because most drivers have poor judgment when it comes to narrow gaps..BUSBY.

Absolutely, works very well in France es since the Kerbs are set quite high almost enforcing traffic to slow. The Traffic Light system works so well also break the limit and 100metre further and lights go to stop with any traffic behind classing you as an absolute tosser for delaying them even further than if following the correct limit.

 

[Nigel P]

So if as you say every road has a default position of the National Speed limit why bother with the sign posts, I'm just saying there was no need for them or the cost of erecting, the fact that you could hardly see them because of the overhanging hedgerow just added to the scenario.

There is a legal requirement to place gateway signs at locations of speed limit changes. I cannot pretend they are all expertly placed and maintained. Many of the 'oddities' arise where one section of road has had its speed limit changed due to the statistical history but adjoining roads remain 'as is' because they don't share the same statistical history. The attached form is one of the tools used to assess causation factors for collisions. If a succession of incidents appear to have a similar root causation factor it provides the evidence for infrastructure changes or speed limit changes. Unfortunately a huge percentage of these forms could be easily summarised as 'driver driving like a 'T**T', which clearly will not invoke any changes. The biggest risk factor is driver behaviour rather than infrastructure.

 

[Paul and Val]

Caldicot: Two new 20mph speed limits face axe after three months

Two stretches of road in Monmouthshire could revert to 30mph after complaints from residents.

www.bbc.com

At least there are some people with common sense. See above.

Of course, there will always be people (hereafter referred to as 'the fools') who misguidedly believe that ridiculously slow speeds are always better.
In fact, stupid speed limits mean that motorists cannot use cruise control, (the number one safety device in a car as the driver can vary or stop the car in an instant without having to spend the time looking at the speedo meter), gives out far more emissions and causes frustration and aggression without even mentioning the extra time wasted.

Above you will see the debate that while it is absolutely correct that some (a few) speed limits are too high, for instance outside schools, many are far, far too low.
If only councils and especially the traffic Police would concentrate on bad driving rather than fast driving. The two are far removed from each other.
I hope that the flat cap brigade will take part in the discussion as well.
Let me finish on this single thought. Speed, even high speed, does not necessarily equate to dangerous driving. There are as many terrible drivers who drive too slowly as those that drive too fast.
Discuss! And have a nice evening.
Paul

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