Which Inverter?

[AdrianChen]

What model of multiplus is that? I was not aware you can reduce the power control to 1A. I think minimum is about 3.5A on some models even 5.5A the lowest.

Yes the min on the radio button is 3, but if you type in 0 or 1 amp in the box above and click the arrowhead it sets it to 1 - not on the van at the moment so cant send a screenshot.. Its a Multiplus II 3000/120 240V.

 

[Raul]

Think you find it does on the smaller mppts you can select AES feature in victron connect and use it for S+ signal for fridge

View attachment 777093

Thats entirely something else we have referred to all allong. We was talking about the inverter AES or search mode, activated by VE config or dip swich.
What you posted has no bearing on the inverter, its a function to save you the battery if load active on the mppt controller.

 

[Ditcha]

Thats entirely something else we have referred to all allong. We was talking about the inverter AES or search mode, activated by VE config or dip swich.
What you posted has no bearing on the inverter, its a function to save you the battery if load active on the mppt controller.

It's exactly what I quoted in my post which you quoted and said you can't when its clear you can.

 

[Raul]

Yes the min on the radio button is 3, but if you type in 0 or 1 amp in the box above and click the arrowhead it sets it to 1 - not on the van at the moment so cant send a screenshot.. Its a Multiplus II 3000/120 240V.

Next time try it with a load, mine takes the seting on GX, but reverts to 4.5A
Thats 12/2000va multiplus.

 

[Raul]

It's exactly what I quoted in my post which you quoted and said you can't when its clear you can.

You can what?

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[Ditcha]

I didn't realise the Smart MPPT with a load output had AES function much easier programming via victron connect rather than VEConfig with the MultiPlus.

It doesn't, AES is a VE bus feature. The mppt load is intended for street lighting, hence you find it only on the small controllers.

 

[Raul]

Yes, and I'm telling you they are two different things AES on ve bus, its not the same thing as on the mppt.
Have a look on Hoovie's earlier post with a screen shot of ve config for AES.

 

[AdrianChen]

Next time try it with a load, mine takes the seting on GX, but reverts to 5.5A
Thats 12/2000va multiplus.

Set it that way last night to run the fridge overnight and warm up some water at 6am on the Alde set to 2kw (16amp EHU) worked just fine - Next time I'm on the van with EHU I'll take some screenshots - Got the method from a post on the Victron Forum about passthrough on the Multiplus II and used it a few times.

 

[autorouter]

Would Pass thru not do what you want without the switch, or does it still use the inverter side but not the charging side I am not sure, it would mean logging into the MultiPlus to switch to Pass thru.

There are two AC outputs from the MultiPlus2, called AC1 and AC2. Apparently AC2 is called 'pass-thru', but it's not what you are referring to. It comes through the inverter, but if the grid fails it switches off, while the other output AC1 continues to work. So it's more like AC1 is essential loads AC2 is non-essential loads that go off if the grid goes down. However if the inverter is switched off, both of them go off. The Pass Thru that you refer to is exactly what I want, but I don't know of a way to get it without that external transfer switch.

 

[Ditcha]

Thats entirely something else we have referred to all allong. We was talking about the inverter AES or search mode, activated by VE config or dip swich.
What you posted has no bearing on the inverter, its a function to save you the battery if load active on the mppt controller.

You have lost me I was taking to Hoovie about AES on the fridge using S+ then you piped in saying you can't use AES on the load output on the MPPT.

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[AnthonyA]

Your experience with the Multiplus II is the same as ours which is also wired to power everything from the inverter - our beds also use the same bulkhead that the multi is mounted on - what I sometimes do at night if I remember is set the multi to charger only and reduce the EHU supply amps to 1 amp - the multi goes into passthrough mode and neither charger or inverter seem to buzz then.

Is it possible to turn the charger off. Do you find the Multiplus intrusive at night. I'm planning on installing on back wall of garage.

 

[Raul]

I just tried as a check on my EasyPlus 12/1600 (aka Multiplus 12/1600) ... set it to 1A and it said "Value not accepted, it was adjusted the next acceptable value" which was 2.4A.

just a bit of info

Mine reverts to 4.5A despite entering a lower value. And i think its a hardware minimum limitation. I have a list somewhere will all models and they power control minimum limit.

I have a feeling AdrianChen refers to charging amps not EHU amps, limiting the charger to 1A (charging amps) to force passtrough without much charging.

 

[Hoovie]

You have lost me I was taking to Hoovie about AES on the fridge using S+ then you piped in saying you can't use AES on the load output on the MPPT.

It is unfortunate that there is an "Automatic Energy Selection" feature on some Fridges and an "Automatic Economy Switch" on the Victron Multiplus and they both have the same acronym

 

[autorouter]

You have lost me I was taking to Hoovie about AES on the fridge using S+ then you piped in saying you can't use AES on the load output on the MPPT.

I think there is some confusion between the Multiplus Automatic Economy Switch (AES) and the Dometic Fridge Automatic Energy Selection (AES). Usually the fridge AES S+ is selected by an MPPT solar controller to run the fridge on solar power. I think you are switching the S+ on using the Multiplus relay output, nothing to do with the Multiplus going into economy mode.

 

[Hoovie]

There are two AC outputs from the MultiPlus2, called AC1 and AC2. Apparently AC2 is called 'pass-thru', but it's not what you are referring to. It comes through the inverter, but if the grid fails it switches off, while the other output AC1 continues to work. So it's more like AC1 is essential loads AC2 is non-essential loads that go off if the grid goes down. However if the inverter is switched off, both of them go off. The Pass Thru that you refer to is exactly what I want, but I don't know of a way to get it without that external transfer switch.

Just as an FYI, it is only the Multiplus 3000 and 5000 that have the AC2. The smaller units just have the single AC Out.

This is one reason why I chose the EasyPlus 12/1600 rather than the Multiplus 12/1600 as I only wanted the power of the 1600 but I wanted an EHU-only out for the Truma Ultraheat. The EasyPlus has a built-in Consumer Unit, and one of those outputs is an EHU only output, which is active only when there is EHU.

EasyPlus CU by David, on Flickr
But ALL these outputs are all from the single Multiplus output (and the EHU only output (labelled "Boiler") is controlled by the CU section, not the MP part).

One of the problems with bypassing the Multiplus with a Transfer Switch is that you lose the Current Limiting feature, so if you are on a site with low power hookup, it could be very easy to trip the supply breaker, which is something you can easily avoid with the Multiplus and having all the AC running through it.

I was looking into setting up a Passthrough only mode a few months ago actually and I think it was on this forum someone said it was possible to do it by setting the charger current to zero in the Cerbo GX within the DVCC settings.
I just changed mine to show this ....

DVCC Setting by David, on Flickr
Unfortunately that is system-wide so it also disables any other connected Chargers, such as MPPT Controllers, so doesn't do what I wanted, but is an possibility to consider.

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[Raul]

Try on gx screen under multiplus switch invert only, rather than ‘on’. This will disable the charger so pass trough, theoretically will be instant.

 

[Raul]

You have lost me I was taking to Hoovie about AES on the fridge using S+ then you piped in saying you can't use AES on the load output on the MPPT.

Please accept my apologies, after reading Autorouter post, I think the penny dropped. You mentioned ve config AES, then AES on mppt, and that’s where all the confusion kicked in. What I think you meant is trigger the fridge by the mppt load setting, rather the ve config relay. Sorry again for my part of confusing things.

 

[AnthonyA]

Try on gx screen under multiplus switch invert only, rather than ‘on’. This will disable the charger so pass trough, theoretically will be instant.

Will this make the Multiplus completely silent when on EHU.

 

[AdrianChen]

I have a feeling AdrianChen refers to charging amps not EHU amps, limiting the charger to 1A (charging amps) to force passtrough without much charging.

It's this setting, I'll take some proper screen shots when I'm back at the van, and the Multi is switched on with ehu.....

 

[Raul]

Will this make the Multiplus completely silent when on EHU.

Not completely, it will be a very faint buzzing hum from the transformer without load. Similar to turned on, but no load.

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[autorouter]

Not completely, it will be a very faint buzzing hum from the transformer without load. Similar to turned on, but no load.

Yes, it's faint, but that's what was annoying autoroutress, because it was just under the bed on a thin plywood wall. That's why I installed the transfer switch.

 

[Raul]

It's this setting, I'll take some proper screen shots when I'm back at the van, and the Multi is switched on with ehu.....

View attachment 777150

I have found your model number 2605, and fairly new hardware. It can limit down to 3.8A AC in. See attached table from victron professional.

 

[Raul]

Yes, it's faint, but that's what was annoying autoroutress, because it was just under the bed on a thin plywood wall. That's why I installed the transfer switch.

What I did is, I wired a socket from ehu AC in, in parallel with the AC in before the inverter. As soon as I plug in the ehu, that socket is life, without turning the inverter on. When I unplug the ehu, that socket is off. Hope that makes sense.

 

[Hoovie]

Try on gx screen under multiplus switch invert only, rather than ‘on’. This will disable the charger so pass trough, theoretically will be instant.

Inverter only will disable the AC Supply completely. It is the same as if you were to unplug the lead.

 

[Raul]

So the only way to force passtrough is to stop or reduce charging to minimum, but not in dvcc. Or, wait for float.

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[Hoovie]

So the only way to force passtrough is to stop or reduce charging to minimum, but not in dvcc. Or, wait for float.

Far as I know.

PS. I said Inverter only is same as unplugging the input lead ... there is one difference. When the MP is in "Inverter Only" mode and the EHU lead has an active power on the end, there is an annoying quirk - Victrons AES mode will not work.

I found this out as at home I tend to leave the Motorhome plugged in for convenience, but have the Multiplus set to "Inverter Only" so it is not drawing power from the mains. That was so I can use the Solar for 'Free' Power. But without AES, there is an instant 12Ah a day wasted.

 

[AnthonyA]

I'm thinking that the best solution is to go with Phoenix Inverter Smart and separate Blue Smart IP22 charger connected to a transfer switch such as NDS Priority switch. This way it gives complete control of both devices which can be turned off when not required. Only advantage I can see of Multiplus II over this configuration is the Power Assist function. Or am I missing something.

 

[Raul]

Far as I know.

PS. I said Inverter only is same as unplugging the input lead ... there is one difference. When the MP is in "Inverter Only" mode and the EHU lead has an active power on the end, there is an annoying quirk - Victrons AES mode will not work.

I found this out as at home I tend to leave the Motorhome plugged in for convenience, but have the Multiplus set to "Inverter Only" so it is not drawing power from the mains. That was so I can use the Solar for 'Free' Power. But without AES, there is an instant 12Ah a day wasted.

I agree and it makes sense, inverter only will open the relay on AC in. The AES function is probably disabled when “inverter only” is selected. I haven’t tested as I never use AES, and you need a minimum load power to trigger it.

 

[nigelivy]

I'd echo everyone's recommendations on the Victron equipment, especially the Multiplus. We've installed a bunch of them other the last few years and they are very impressive pieces of kit! I've yet to meet someone that regrets dropping the coin on one.
They're especially useful if you stay on campsites that limit your power (say to 5A) where you need to regulate how much power you pull from the EHU as the Multiplus will use its Power Assist technology to pull 5A from the EHU (for example) and whatever else it needs from your batteries.

If you're looking for a budget option, we've had good success with Giandel Inverters. They aren't as good as Victron and other premium products, but they are reliable, and when we've had issues with them, their warranty and support is pretty good.

 

[Hoovie]

I agree and it makes sense, inverter only will open the relay on AC in. The AES function is probably disabled when “inverter only” is selected. I haven’t tested as I never use AES, and you need a minimum load power to trigger it.

AES does work in "Inverter Only". It is the presence of an EHU Input that is live but not used that disables AES for no apparent reason.
AES is an important feature that really should work always when the Inverter is in "Inverter Only" regardless of the presence of an EHU lead but does not. I think that is a design issue, but sadly Victron thinks it is unimportant.

This is the kind of way AES Mode is meant to work .....

Screenshot 2023-07-03 at 00-10-55 Monty - VRM Portal by David, on Flickr
Inverter wakes up when demand hits X Watts, and then goes into Low Power when demand drops below Y Watts

I set my thresholds at >69 Watts to stop AES and <46W to restart AES. I chose these numbers so the fridge wakes it up (in-rush is well above 69W, and then runs at a steady ~50W, then when the fridge has dropped to the required temp, demand is cut and the AES starts again.

Screenshot 2023-07-03 at 00-11-07 Monty - VRM Portal by David, on Flickr

Very straightforward, but there are quirks (such as remembering to unplug some devices that beep when power is applied such as my Induction Hob otherwise it will beep every few seconds when the inverter comes on to check for a load )

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