Which Inverter?

[Orion]

Looking for recommendations for a 3000w pure sine wave inverter with auto switchover when on EHU. It’s going to be built-in and connected to the existing 240v ring and A/C, so no need for 240v sockets if such a beast exists?

Also, regarding wiring, I presume it is connected to the 240v side after the existing EHU RCD?

 

[VXman]

I think most inverters will have 240v sockets.

Reputable makes are Renology, NDS and Victron.

 

[autorouter]

I have a Victron Multiplus 2 3000, which is an inverter/charger. It has no sockets on it, there is a wired 240V input and two wired 230V outputs. It is a bit more expensive than a stand-alone inverter, but has many advantages. First is the built-in transfer switch.

But it's much better than just that. The Multiplus 2 synchronises with the incoming mains (voltage, frequency and phase) so that the inverter and mains can work together. So for example if the hookup post is restricted to 6A, you can set the incoming current limit to 5A. The multiplus adjusts the charger so it doesn't take more than 5A from the post.

If you switch on a 2A load, the charger dials back so that the load is supplies but the 5A limit is not exceeded. If you switch on a 10A load, it will take 5A from the hookup and 5A from the batteries via the inverter. When the load is switched off, it will automatically go back to charging the batteries. All this happens automatically, no user intervention needed.

 

[Lenny HB]

I would go for the Victron Multiplus, but you do need a decent amount of Lithium batteries to run a 3000 watt inverter.
Bare in mind Victron spec their inverters in Va, the Victron 3000 va inverters are rated at 2400 watts. They will only deliver 3000 watts into a resistive load.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Renology, £279.95 currently iff their website and has the functions you require and it’s Pure Sine wave, so it will power microwave and hairdryers etc.

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[AnthonyA]

I have a Victron Multiplus 2 3000, which is an inverter/charger. It has no sockets on it, there is a wired 240V input and two wired 230V outputs. It is a bit more expensive than a stand-alone inverter, but has many advantages. First is the built-in transfer switch.

But it's much better than just that. The Multiplus 2 synchronises with the incoming mains (voltage, frequency and phase) so that the inverter and mains can work together. So for example if the hookup post is restricted to 6A, you can set the incoming current limit to 5A. The multiplus adjusts the charger so it doesn't take more than 5A from the post.

If you switch on a 2A load, the charger dials back so that the load is supplies but the 5A limit is not exceeded. If you switch on a 10A load, it will take 5A from the hookup and 5A from the batteries via the inverter. When the load is switched off, it will automatically go back to charging the batteries. All this happens automatically, no user intervention needed.

I'm thinking of installing the Multiplus II 3000. How do you find it. When you are running 12v lights/TV etc. how quiet is the charger side. In general can you hear it when in operation. I accept that when inverting there will be a hum but shouldn't be an issue as most 240 appliances (microwave, air fryer, kettle, hair dryer etc) will be noisy anyway.

 

[Raul]

On full chat charging, if it goes on for over 30mins, fans will come on as it would be under load. The multi is by directional, so charging OR inverting is similar work load.
If you turn charging amps down to 70-80% of its full capability, fans will idle only and noise is reduced.

 

[autorouter]

In general it is excellent, definitely a good idea to fit it. I am often on aires with limited hookup supply, and the Multiplus takes all the problems out of that.

My MH has a rear garage with double bed over it. The Multiplus is fixed to the garage wall which is fairly thin plywood. The hum is noticeable but not intrusive, however I often switch it off at night, especially in very quiet locations. In fact I have arranged an auto-switching relay that powers everything from the mains when the inverter is off, but combines the mains and inverter, Multiplus-style, when the inverter is on. I think that's the opposite of the normal auto-switching arrangement. It means I can have the hookup mains on, even if it's low power, during the night without the inverter hum.

 

[Lenny HB]

In general it is excellent, definitely a good idea to fit it. I am often on aires with limited hookup supply, and the Multiplus takes all the problems out of that.

My MH has a rear garage with double bed over it. The Multiplus is fixed to the garage wall which is fairly thin plywood. The hum is noticeable but not intrusive, however I often switch it off at night, especially in very quiet locations. In fact I have arranged an auto-switching relay that powers everything from the mains when the inverter is off, but combines the mains and inverter, Multiplus-style, when the inverter is on. I think that's the opposite of the normal auto-switching arrangement. It means I can have the hookup mains on, even if it's low power, during the night without the inverter hum.

You said you had a Multiplus so why do you need the really switching I thought that's what the Multiplus does.

 

[autorouter]

You said you had a Multiplus so why do you need the really switching I thought that's what the Multiplus does.

It's not needed, it's a nice to have. I have all the mains stuff, even the heater elements, running from the inverter. If I turn the inverter off, no mains stuff works.

Usually for most stand-alone inverters the transfer relay switches off the inverter and connects the hookup when the EHU is plugged in. The Multiplus doesn't do that. When the EHU is plugged in, the Multiplus synchronises with the incoming mains and remains powered up. When the inverter is switched off, anything powered by the inverter is also switched off, even if the EHU is still connected.

Normally you wouldn't turn off the Multiplus, so it's not a problem. But if you want to turn it off, for example to stop the hum at night, then a switchover is required to connect everything to the hookup mains.

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[AnthonyA]

It's not needed, it's a nice to have. I have all the mains stuff, even the heater elements, running from the inverter. If I turn the inverter off, no mains stuff works.

Usually for most stand-alone inverters the transfer relay switches off the inverter and connects the hookup when the EHU is plugged in. The Multiplus doesn't do that. When the EHU is plugged in, the Multiplus synchronises with the incoming mains and remains powered up. When the inverter is switched off, anything powered by the inverter is also switched off, even if the EHU is still connected.

Normally you wouldn't turn off the Multiplus, so it's not a problem. But if you want to turn it off, for example to stop the hum at night, then a switchover is required to connect everything to the hookup mains.

What transfer switch have you used. How is this wired to the EHU and Mulitplus.

 

[autorouter]

What transfer switch have you used. How is this wired to the EHU and Mulitplus.

I used a standard power relay, 240V 20A, with 240V coil. 2-pole changeover contacts, also called Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT). It has two changeover switches, which have three contacts: Common (COM), Normally Closed (NC) and Normally Open (NO). The relay connects the Inverter, Hookup and Loads. For the Live, Loads = COM, Inverter = NO, Hookup - NC. The Neutral is connected the same way to the other switch.

I can't find the details of the relay I used, but I would get something like this one. You have to wade through a lot of them to find one that is 240V DPDT, 20A, with 240V coil.

https://ie.farnell.com/potter-brumfield-te-connectivity/kuhp-11a51-240/relay-dpdt-240vac-28vdc-20a/dp/1532038

If you have space in your consumer unit you could look for a relay that clips onto the DIN rail, a neat solution. Make sure it's DPDT, most of them are DP On/Off only.
This is how I wired it up: brown = live, blue = neutral.

 

[Calamaster]

Just be careful of the specification of the inverter. 3000W is that Max or continuous? I recently upgraded mine to 5000W Max / 3500W continuous.
I can now run the Tassimo Coffee Maker. I also wired mine in with a big 3-way switch. 1. OFF 2. Hookup 3. Inverter.

 

[Stewen]

Just be careful of the specification of the inverter. 3000W is that Max or continuous? I recently upgraded mine to 5000W Max / 3500W continuous.
I can now run the Tassimo Coffee Maker. I also wired mine in with a big 3-way switch. 1. OFF 2. Hookup 3. Inverter.

Which type/ make of 3 way switch did you use?

 

[Otter Spotter]

With the Renology 3000w it has auto hook up circuits if you van is wired correctly it will switch over on its own

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[AnthonyA]

I used a standard power relay, 240V 20A, with 240V coil. 2-pole changeover contacts, also called Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT). It has two changeover switches, which have three contacts: Common (COM), Normally Closed (NC) and Normally Open (NO). The relay connects the Inverter, Hookup and Loads. For the Live, Loads = COM, Inverter = NO, Hookup - NC. The Neutral is connected the same way to the other switch.

I can't find the details of the relay I used, but I would get something like this one. You have to wade through a lot of them to find one that is 240V DPDT, 20A, with 240V coil.

https://ie.farnell.com/potter-brumfield-te-connectivity/kuhp-11a51-240/relay-dpdt-240vac-28vdc-20a/dp/1532038

If you have space in your consumer unit you could look for a relay that clips onto the DIN rail, a neat solution. Make sure it's DPDT, most of them are DP On/Off only.
This is how I wired it up: brown = live, blue = neutral.
View attachment 776830

Any chance of a photo of your relay. The one in the link has spade connectors.

 

[Calamaster]

Which type/ make of 3 way switch did you use?

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[Hoovie]

Adding a Transfer Switch to a Victron Multiplus install like that is a rather unusual thing to do. Not saying there is never a reason to do it at all, as Autorouter would not have done it without a purpose, but very few people will have a need to do so I would think. (Autorouters setup is the first time I have seen anyone do this in fact).

If possible, I would situate the Multiplus outside of the living area or at the minimum somewhere which is both ventilated AND well insulated (could be tricky ). On my current MH, I initially installed my EasyPlus (a Multiplus with built-in Consumer Unit) under one of the side benches but later relocated it to an external locker. I can still hear it operate, especially when it is charging the battery (as imagined, when providing high power, the device it is feeding will drown out the Multiplus anyway), but it doesn't bother me really (and I can't be dealing with a ticking clock for example, so noise can certainly be irritating).

 

[Ditcha]

It's not needed, it's a nice to have. I have all the mains stuff, even the heater elements, running from the inverter. If I turn the inverter off, no mains stuff works.

Usually for most stand-alone inverters the transfer relay switches off the inverter and connects the hookup when the EHU is plugged in. The Multiplus doesn't do that. When the EHU is plugged in, the Multiplus synchronises with the incoming mains and remains powered up. When the inverter is switched off, anything powered by the inverter is also switched off, even if the EHU is still connected.

Normally you wouldn't turn off the Multiplus, so it's not a problem. But if you want to turn it off, for example to stop the hum at night, then a switchover is required to connect everything to the hookup mains.

Would Pass thru not do what you want without the switch, or does it still use the inverter side but not the charging side I am not sure, it would mean logging into the MultiPlus to switch to Pass thru.

 

[Hoovie]

Would Pass thru not do what you want without the switch, or does it still use the inverter side but not the charging side I am not sure, it would mean logging into the MultiPlus to switch to Pass thru.

I may get corrected on the following but my understanding is ....
Passthru operation will be no charger BUT will allow Power Assist (if that is enabled on the configuration), so you could get the inverter working (and fan noise, etc). Passthru is tricky to enable.
What would be maybe the quietest mode of operation (apart from having switched off, of course) when on EHU is Charger Only, which is very easy to do. Once batteries are charged, the Multiplus noise would be negliable.

If fan noise really is a "thing", you can also add a "no fan" assistant so it will never come on. Doing that will compromise the operation whist that "no fan" is enabled, but could be something to set for overnight? (I did a setup for a customer with a Garage MP and added the "no fan" assistant and a manual switch in the living area so they could set that mode whenever they wanted).

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[Ditcha]

I may get corrected on the following but my understanding is ....
Passthru operation will be no charger BUT will allow Power Assist (if that is enabled on the configuration), so you could get the inverter working (and fan noise, etc). Passthru is tricky to enable.
What would be maybe the quietest mode of operation (apart from having switched off, of course) when on EHU is Charger Only, which is very easy to do. Once batteries are charged, the Multiplus noise would be negliable.

If fan noise really is a "thing", you can also add a "no fan" assistant so it will never come on. Doing that will compromise the operation whist that "no fan" is enabled, but could be something to set for overnight? (I did a setup for a customer with a Garage MP and added the "no fan" assistant and a manual switch in the living area so they could set that mode whenever they wanted).

That's another good attribute of the MultiPlus the use of the assistant just used the function to switch my S+ on my fridge using the inbuilt programmable relay using the state of charge.

 

[Hoovie]

That's another good attribute of the MultiPlus the use of the assistant just used the function to switch my S+ on my fridge using the inbuilt programmable relay using the state of charge.

Yup. What I will say is I wish Victron had more control inputs on the Multiplus for this kind of thing. Some MPs have 2, but my EasyPlus has just one control/aux input, which is actually the Temp sensor but can be repurposed.
I use that not for Temp, but to control if AES is enabled or not. As I use it for that, I cannot set the "Fan Off" assistant OR to control an S+ signal. Not a deal breaker by any means, but for just a few pennies more, the operation could be much more flexible. (I can't monitor the Temp either of course! I do that via a Cerbo, but if no Cerbo, that becomes another limitation that does not really need to be there )

 

[Charlie57]

Phew this thread is making my brain hurt!
I want to charge mobility scooter batteries, charger is rated at 100-240v 60/50Hz 2.5A (650W?) I was looking at a Streetwise 1000w (2000w peak) modified sine wavem its 100 quid from Argos would this be OK?
Comes with leads and as I have two batteries positive lead to one battery and negative lead to other battery?

TIA

 

[Raul]

Pass trough hapens when battery charging has finished, (default) or, depending on power control setting, you can set how much to charge, and what reminder you have for the loads in pass trough. When is on float, all ehu power goes to the loads in a quiet pass trough.
All this is in the manual.

 

[Ditcha]

Yup. What I will say is I wish Victron had more control inputs on the Multiplus for this kind of thing. Some MPs have 2, but my EasyPlus has just one control/aux input, which is actually the Temp sensor but can be repurposed.
I use that not for Temp, but to control if AES is enabled or not. As I use it for that, I cannot set the "Fan Off" assistant OR to control an S+ signal. Not a deal breaker by any means, but for just a few pennies more, the operation could be much more flexible. (I can't monitor the Temp either of course! I do that via a Cerbo, but if no Cerbo, that becomes another limitation that does not really need to be there )

I didn't realise the Smart MPPT with a load output had AES function much easier programming via victron connect rather than VEConfig with the MultiPlus.

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[Raul]

I didn't realise the Smart MPPT with a load output had AES function much easier programming via victron connect rather than VEConfig with the MultiPlus.

It doesn't, AES is a VE bus feature. The mppt load is intended for street lighting, hence you find it only on the small controllers.

 

[AdrianChen]

It's not needed, it's a nice to have. I have all the mains stuff, even the heater elements, running from the inverter. If I turn the inverter off, no mains stuff works.

Usually for most stand-alone inverters the transfer relay switches off the inverter and connects the hookup when the EHU is plugged in. The Multiplus doesn't do that. When the EHU is plugged in, the Multiplus synchronises with the incoming mains and remains powered up. When the inverter is switched off, anything powered by the inverter is also switched off, even if the EHU is still connected.

Normally you wouldn't turn off the Multiplus, so it's not a problem. But if you want to turn it off, for example to stop the hum at night, then a switchover is required to connect everything to the hookup mains.

Your experience with the Multiplus II is the same as ours which is also wired to power everything from the inverter - our beds also use the same bulkhead that the multi is mounted on - what I sometimes do at night if I remember is set the multi to charger only and reduce the EHU supply amps to 1 amp - the multi goes into passthrough mode and neither charger or inverter seem to buzz then.

 

[Raul]

Your experience with the Multiplus II is the same as ours which is also wired to power everything from the inverter - our beds also use the same bulkhead that the multi is mounted on - what I sometimes do at night if I remember is set the multi to charger only and reduce the EHU supply amps to 1 amp - the multi goes into passthrough mode and neither charger or inverter seem to buzz then.

What model of multiplus is that? I was not aware you can reduce the power control to 1A. I think minimum is about 3.5A on some models even 5.5A the lowest.

 

[Ditcha]

It doesn't, AES is a VE bus feature. The mppt load is intended for street lighting, hence you find it only on the small controllers.

Think you find it does on the smaller mppts you can select AES feature in victron connect and use it for S+ signal for fridge

 

[Hoovie]

What model of multiplus is that? I was not aware you can reduce the power control to 1A. I think minimum is about 3.5A on some models even 5.5A the lowest.

I just tried as a check on my EasyPlus 12/1600 (aka Multiplus 12/1600) ... set it to 1A and it said "Value not accepted, it was adjusted the next acceptable value" which was 2.4A.

just a bit of info

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