Which Brands have Poor Payload

[bigtwin]

I know that there are a few brands that generally don’t fare well when it comes to payload, particularly if plated at 3500Kg.

Any views on how Rapido fare on this front (I have a relative considering one)?

Ian

 

[PatapscoPaul]

Another (recent) real-world example. Just purchased a 6.98m Hymer 4x4 with Alde heating & quite a few "extras" incl 2x lithiums, plated at 4,100Kg. Note the MIRO only includes the "standard" van, with no options. Hymer include 75Kg driver, 90% in fuel tank, 20L water & 16Kg aluminium gas tank (filled) in the MIRO (I think this is a legal EU requirement but not sure). MIRO on the van on the CoC is 2,942Kg. Section 13.2 on the CoC gives the "actual" weight of the van at the end of manufacturing, so MIRO plus options & fluids. Mine states 3,519Kg which is within 20Kg of the calculated weight on their on-line Configurator (so great news and it seems Hymer calculated weights are spot-on, at least in this instance). Got the UK disty to weigh the van and taking into account the different driver weights and different fuel & water loads, it came within 15Kgs of the CoC 13.2 figures . By the time I add in The Boss, 2 dogs, alarm, 2 full Gaslows, spare wheel & tyre, jack (not supplied by Hymer ), Adblue 20kg, 40Kg of waste water, it leaves me a payload for food, tools, chains, clothes, etc of around 370Kg. Not entirely happy to be driving around all the time close to max weight, but don't see many alternative options. I'm happy with what we spec'd as we will be using the van through winters, but those extra options mean we can carry less "stuff" so will need to be careful. It's easy to look at the MIRO and forget all the other stuff you need or will likely be carrying, quite apart from the obvious people/dogs clothes & food.

 

[V and B]

It really depends on how much you need/want to take. For ourselves 3,500kg (we have a chausson 640 ford automatic chassis) is fine, we always take far too much stuff, but to compensate we only fill the water tank with a small amount of water, otherwise we would be over. We wouldn't be able to add anything, say bikes for example, without sacrificing other things, which would then affect our Moho experiences. For those buying I would suggest checking that the vehicle can easily be uprated to a higher weight, you would then have more choice.

 

[Pausim]

Jim, have you heard about the Cathago payload problem???

A pal of mine bort his 3,500t C-tourer back in 2018 from NEC from Go-European in Cannock, and has just been told he has potentially been told his particular model is plated wrong
He's had to strip it back to standard without anything on board, Including fuel, water etc and then dropped it off to be weighed outcome 3,250t. Only 6 were sold of same model from Cannock, all being told need to up plate now to be legal !
He's still in negotiations with Carthago on what his option's are, he's so annoyed as you can imagine.
Potentially it will require new wheel's and tyre's, air bag's on rear at least to be re-plated to 3,650t which I'm assuming they will cover the cost !
Although let's say he doesn't want to up-plate but may not have a choice It will cost him £40k to swap to a current like for like model, and that's him getting the full price he paid for it 5 year's ago - What do you think of this situation Jim???

There is now a minimum payload regulation that applies across the EU and Carthago/Malibu seem to be applying it to UK sales as well. As a result they now do not allow purchasers to specify options that would reduce the payload below the regulation minimum. More importantly they are also weighing the vehicles at the end of the production process to check that any manufacturing tolerances (allowed 5%) have not broken the minimum payload rules. If there is a problem they say they will check with the purchaser and the dealer whether to increase the vehicle weight or reduce the permissible number of seats or take out some of the additional equipment.

 

[FrankNicklin]

Do all manufacturers weight their vehicles after production. All need a proper weigh bridge installing at the end of the production line so every vehicle is weighed with all the options the customer has specified. The vehicle should then be plated with that exact total weight and axle weights then we would all know were we stand and whether it will suit our needs at the point of purchase. Obviously additions after the event are more difficult, if say the buyer adds self levelling etc, but included in the vehicle log during purchase should be what the production weight of a vehicle included then later additions can be accounted for. Dealer added options should required the vehicle to be replaced accordingly. There is too much at stake here.

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[Jim]

and Carthago/Malibu seem to be applying it to UK sales as well.

I wonder why that is?

Broken Link Removed

 

[Pausim]

I wonder why that is?

Broken Link Removed

I guess they got found out or maybe they spotted the problem for themselves. I doubt they are the only ones who got it wrong, perhaps they are just unusual for admitting they have had problems.

 

[Telrose]

We’ve got a Chausson 718 on a transit 2017 with the wife me and the dog and not an over excessive amount of kit we run at 3460 near enough is good enough

 

[Teedubyaa]

We were looking at increasing our new Rapido V68 from 3,500 to 3,650 - we have a few extras that added weight like awning, auto, 180bhp, alloys, TV/WiFi - took it to weighbridge loaded for weekend with both aboard, hiking gear, full fuel, gas, and 20% water came to 3,420kg at weighbridge so decided to keep at 3,500 - We did leave the dog (18kg and about 10kg max for her stuff) and third bed mattress at home, so with the dog onboard the 50kg or so allowance should be enough for us as we tend to go hiking so enough for an extra few days lightweight hiking gear and food.

 

[DerryW]

There is now a minimum payload regulation that applies across the EU and Carthago/Malibu seem to be applying it to UK sales as well. As a result they now do not allow purchasers to specify options that would reduce the payload below the regulation minimum. More importantly they are also weighing the vehicles at the end of the production process to check that any manufacturing tolerances (allowed 5%) have not broken the minimum payload rules. If there is a problem they say they will check with the purchaser and the dealer whether to increase the vehicle weight or reduce the permissible number of seats or take out some of the additional equipment.

That’s a sensible approach by Carthago. Don’t know the minimum payload they are working too.

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[Pausim]

That’s a sensible approach by Carthago. Don’t know the minimum payload they are working too.

The minimum payload is not over generous, I think the EU regulations are:

75kg per passenger travel seat i.e. 3x75kg=225kg (driver is allowed for in MIRO)
10kg additional equipment for each metre of length say 7x10kg=70kg
10kg luggage for each passenger seat plus driver 4x10=40kg
Minimum payload for 7m van with 4 travel seats 225+70+40=335kg

The manufacturer specifies the number of travel seats, so by removing the seat belts from 2 travel seats the manufacturer can reduce the minimum payload by 170kg.

 

[Jim]

That’s a sensible approach by Carthago

A hard earned lesson that hopefully other makers will take heed Of. Selling vans that are overweight before you get in them is not good for business.

 

[Captain Lloyd]

When I bought my first A class Rapido I was given the option of 3500k or 3700k I went for the 3700k. Our first long trip away I loaded up already had leveling,awning,and double bottle gaslow as extras then wife 2 kids bikes plus luggage went to a weigh bridge to check, it was 3850 I thought take the risk.
After going through the first toll in France got pulled over by the gendarmes for a spot check, they weighted us and asked for the V5 then asked “3700k, empty or full”? My wife replied empty he replied ok carry on.
The next year I bought a heavy chassis Rapido now have 4400k.

 

[cyberyacht]

The metalwork for the third and fourth passenger seatbelts in my Compactline must weigh quite a bit. I've pondered whether that could safely be removed or whether it provides structural integrity to interior bulkheads.

 

[Pausim]

The metalwork for the third and fourth passenger seatbelts in my Compactline must weigh quite a bit. I've pondered whether that could safely be removed or whether it provides structural integrity to interior bulkheads.

I have thought about removing that structure too, unfortunately I think the interior might have been built around it. Another heavy item is the jacking up kit under the passenger seat, if you don’t have a spare wheel it could be left at home. I think the only item you might need is the towing eye.

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[pxh38257]

I know that there are a few brands that generally don’t fare well when it comes to payload, particularly if plated at 3500Kg.

Any views on how Rapido fare on this front (I have a relative considering one)?

Ian

Hi Ian I have a Rapido 8094DF A Class that was plated at 3500kgs but updated to 3650kgs by the previous owner. When I weighed it with all our gear in, half a tank of fuel I was over its max load. I contacted Van Weight Engineering who were able to up rate it to 3850kgs with NO modifications. It was purely a paper exercise and cost approx £250.

 

[Lenny HB]

Another (recent) real-world example. Just purchased a 6.98m Hymer 4x4 with Alde heating & quite a few "extras" incl 2x lithiums, plated at 4,100Kg. Note the MIRO only includes the "standard" van, with no options. Hymer include 75Kg driver, 90% in fuel tank, 20L water & 16Kg aluminium gas tank (filled) in the MIRO (I think this is a legal EU requirement but not sure). MIRO on the van on the CoC is 2,942Kg. Section 13.2 on the CoC gives the "actual" weight of the van at the end of manufacturing, so MIRO plus options & fluids. Mine states 3,519Kg which is within 20Kg of the calculated weight on their on-line Configurator (so great news and it seems Hymer calculated weights are spot-on, at least in this instance). Got the UK disty to weigh the van and taking into account the different driver weights and different fuel & water loads, it came within 15Kgs of the CoC 13.2 figures . By the time I add in The Boss, 2 dogs, alarm, 2 full Gaslows, spare wheel & tyre, jack (not supplied by Hymer ), Adblue 20kg, 40Kg of waste water, it leaves me a payload for food, tools, chains, clothes, etc of around 370Kg. Not entirely happy to be driving around all the time close to max weight, but don't see many alternative options. I'm happy with what we spec'd as we will be using the van through winters, but those extra options mean we can carry less "stuff" so will need to be careful. It's easy to look at the MIRO and forget all the other stuff you need or will likely be carrying, quite apart from the obvious people/dogs clothes & food.

Had 3 Hymers all of them have been within a few kilos of the stated weight.

 

[Lenny HB]

A pal of mine bort his 3,500t C-tourer back in 2018 from NEC from Go-European in Cannock, and has just been told he has potentially been told his particular model is plated wrong
He's had to strip it back to standard without anything on board, Including fuel, water etc and then dropped it off to be weighed outcome 3,250t. Only 6 were sold of same model from Cannock, all being told need to up plate now to be legal !

Even if it had been at the correct weight a C-Tourer is almost impossible to run at 3500kg.

 

[DerryW]

The minimum payload is not over generous, I think the EU regulations are:

75kg per passenger travel seat i.e. 3x75kg=225kg (driver is allowed for in MIRO)
10kg additional equipment for each metre of length say 7x10kg=70kg
10kg luggage for each passenger seat plus driver 4x10=40kg
Minimum payload for 7m van with 4 travel seats 225+70+40=335kg

The manufacturer specifies the number of travel seats, so by removing the seat belts from 2 travel seats the manufacturer can reduce the minimum payload by 170kg.

I’m surprised there’s no allowances for leisure battery and charger, gas bottle, a minimum amount of fuel and water i.e 50ltrs fuel and 40ltrs fresh water = c150kgs.

But it’s a good start. In reality any make/model of coachbuilt with a GVW of 3500kgs needs to be no more than 3000kgs to allow for any essential accessories you would expect in a usable motorhome , such as solar and awning.

That’s before you add extra leisure battery, solar, bikes, bike racks, towbars, chairs, tables ground sheets, BBQ etc.

a tough brief for the manufacturers and converters, me thinks

 

[Pausim]

I’m surprised there’s no allowances for leisure battery and charger, gas bottle, a minimum amount of fuel and water i.e 50ltrs fuel and 40ltrs fresh water = c150kgs.

But it’s a good start. In reality any make/model of coachbuilt with a GVW of 3500kgs needs to be no more than 3000kgs to allow for any essential accessories you would expect in a usable motorhome , such as solar and awning.

That’s before you add extra leisure battery, solar, bikes, bike racks, towbars, chairs, tables ground sheets, BBQ etc.

a tough brief for the manufacturers and converters, me thinks

Leisure battery, charger, gas bottle, 90% fuel and water are all allowed for in the MIRO. Solar and awning are not essential accessories, I don’t have or need either.

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[DerryW]

Didn’t realise that. No solar or awning. Couldn’t live without either.

 

[bobnick]

Always a hot topic this payload business. I don't get it.
Carry less if you think you are near it's limit.
People carry so much stuff they NEVER ever use.

 

[nicholsong]

When I bought our S/H N&B Arto it was plated at 3500kg but V5c read 3850kg.

N&B sent me a new 3850 plate FOC

 

[Pausim]

Didn’t realise that. No solar or awning. Couldn’t live without either.

Many would agree with you but they are heavy and if payload is tight they might not be everyone’s first priority. This is what I like about a long list of options instead of standard fittings, I get what I want not what the manufacturer thinks will attract most purchasers. Of course you have to be careful and add up the weights.

 

[bigtwin]

Always a hot topic this payload business. I don't get it.
Carry less if you think you are near it's limit.
People carry so much stuff they NEVER ever use.

I posted the OP so that a relative could be informed and potentially avoid an expensive mistake as they navigate themselves through the buying process.

Hopefully they won’t find themselves in need of adopting your strategy (and compromising their lifestyle as a consequence).

Ian

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[bobnick]

Still don't get it

 

[bigtwin]

Still don't get it

 

[Pausim]

Always a hot topic this payload business. I don't get it.
Carry less if you think you are near it's limit.
People carry so much stuff they NEVER ever use.

Hopefully they won’t find themselves in need of adopting your strategy (and compromising their lifestyle as a consequence).

Choice. If I didn’t want to compromise my lifestyle I could stay at home. However, I want to keep motorhoming and faced with downsizing I will have to make some changes. Ditching the stuff I never or rarely use is an easy place to start. I will not be compromising on heating, hot water and comfortable beds so I am not talking about going back to basics. Lifestyle adjustments come with age and I find it better to face the inevitable than run away from them. Change happens so I adapt.

 

[Lenny HB]

Didn’t realise that. No solar or awning. Couldn’t live without either.

Approx 8kg for every 100 watt of solar, awning 35 - 50kg depending on size.

 

[Lenny HB]

Always a hot topic this payload business. I don't get it.
Carry less if you think you are near it's limit.
People carry so much stuff they NEVER ever use.

I bet you don't even carry a twin tub washing machine like most of us.

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[bobnick]

I bet you don't even carry a twin tub washing machine like most of us.

My theory is when loading if the front wheels of the van are lifting off the ground don't put anymore in.
Washing machine, got to be kidding.