Which Brands have Poor Payload

[bigtwin]

I know that there are a few brands that generally don’t fare well when it comes to payload, particularly if plated at 3500Kg.

Any views on how Rapido fare on this front (I have a relative considering one)?

Ian

 

[Guigsy]

Do you know what your actual, as opposed to claimed, payload is?

Ian

No. All the council weigh stations around here are a pain in the butt. They are supposed to be open to the public, but they seem to use the weigh tables as extra staff parking spaces, so they're never available when we've tried.

But it's just two of us and we have to pack light as there's no garage. With a spreadsheet and a lot of safety margin, I still think I've got 150kg spare.

 

[roadwarrior]

my autotrail 634 was awful for payload i think it had a 150 kg capacity so had to IMMEDEATLY put airbags on - i had 2 autotrails ( both 634) and both needed to be upgraded to be legal

 

[roadwarrior]

No. All the council weigh stations around here are a pain in the butt. They are supposed to be open to the public, but they seem to use the weigh tables as extra staff parking spaces, so they're never available when we've tried.

But it's just two of us and we have to pack light as there's no garage. With a spreadsheet and a lot of safety margin, I still think I've got 150kg spare.

Public Protection Trading Standards list of public weighbridges​

This information is provided for guidance only. Details should always be confirmed with the weighbridge operator.


Cannock area

• Poplars Landfill Site Lichfield Road Cannock WS11 8NQ Tel: (01543) 577890 -2 x 50 Tonnes -15m x 3m -£11 Inc. VAT -A460 -(Mon-Fri) 7.30am – 4:30pm.

South Staffordshire area

• J.B. Sands Horsebrook Lane Brewood Nr Staffordshire ST19 9LT Tel: (01902) 850350 -44 Tonnes -15m x 3m -£9 inc VAT. A5 - (Mon – Fri) 7:30am – 5pm.

Stafford Area

• Carrs Billington Agriculture Ltd Cold Meece Stone Staffs ST15 0RQ Tel: (01785) 760535 -50 Tonnes --£5 Inc VAT -A519 -(Mon -Fri) 6am -8pm.
• Leese Brothers (Eccleshall) Ltd Platt Bridge Eccleshall. Tel: (01785) 850376-29 Tonnes/ 990 Kilos -10m x 3m -£5 Inc. VAT -A519 -(Mon – Fri) 8.30am – 5:30pm (Sat) 9am-12pm.
• Ed Weetmans, Pasturefield Enterpise Park, Pasturefields, Great Haywood ST18 0RB. Tel: (01889) 270710 - 50 Tonnes - 15m x 3m- £7 + VAT- A51 - (Mon – Fri) 8am – 5.30pm (Sat) 8am –11am.

Stoke on Trent area

• Stoke-on-Trent City Council, Weighbridge Site, Cromer Road, Northwood, Stoke-on-Trent, ST1 6QN Email: transport.fleet@stoke.gov.uk-50,000 Tonnes -14 x 3 Metres-£10 including VAT-A52-Monday to Friday 7am-12pm and 1pm-6pm, Saturday and Sunday by appointment only.

Tamworth area

• WM Briers and Son Ltd, Unit 15 Felspar Road,Tamworth B77 4DP, Tel: (01827) 62668 -50 Tonnes -15m x 3m-£30 + VAT-A5 -(Mon – Fri) 8am-4:30pm.

 

[JoshnPen]

We went to a local skip company to weigh de van, fully loaded. They were very helpful and gave us a print out.

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[Guigsy]

Public Protection Trading Standards list of public weighbridges​

This information is provided for guidance only. Details should always be confirmed with the weighbridge operator.


Cannock area

• Poplars Landfill Site Lichfield Road Cannock WS11 8NQ Tel: (01543) 577890 -2 x 50 Tonnes -15m x 3m -£11 Inc. VAT -A460 -(Mon-Fri) 7.30am – 4:30pm.

South Staffordshire area

• J.B. Sands Horsebrook Lane Brewood Nr Staffordshire ST19 9LT Tel: (01902) 850350 -44 Tonnes -15m x 3m -£9 inc VAT. A5 - (Mon – Fri) 7:30am – 5pm.

Stafford Area

• Carrs Billington Agriculture Ltd Cold Meece Stone Staffs ST15 0RQ Tel: (01785) 760535 -50 Tonnes --£5 Inc VAT -A519 -(Mon -Fri) 6am -8pm.
• Leese Brothers (Eccleshall) Ltd Platt Bridge Eccleshall. Tel: (01785) 850376-29 Tonnes/ 990 Kilos -10m x 3m -£5 Inc. VAT -A519 -(Mon – Fri) 8.30am – 5:30pm (Sat) 9am-12pm.
• Ed Weetmans, Pasturefield Enterpise Park, Pasturefields, Great Haywood ST18 0RB. Tel: (01889) 270710 - 50 Tonnes - 15m x 3m- £7 + VAT- A51 - (Mon – Fri) 8am – 5.30pm (Sat) 8am –11am.

Stoke on Trent area

• Stoke-on-Trent City Council, Weighbridge Site, Cromer Road, Northwood, Stoke-on-Trent, ST1 6QN Email: transport.fleet@stoke.gov.uk-50,000 Tonnes -14 x 3 Metres-£10 including VAT-A52-Monday to Friday 7am-12pm and 1pm-6pm, Saturday and Sunday by appointment only.

Tamworth area

• WM Briers and Son Ltd, Unit 15 Felspar Road,Tamworth B77 4DP, Tel: (01827) 62668 -50 Tonnes -15m x 3m-£30 + VAT-A5 -(Mon – Fri) 8am-4:30pm.

Thanks. It's annoying that I live in Birmingham city centre and the closest of those appears to be at least an hour's round trip. There are several council ones far closer. But they are all run by Veolia, and they just aren't interested in public access.

 

[bigtwin]

Thanks. It's annoying that I live in Birmingham city centre and the closest of those appears to be at least an hour's round trip. There are several council ones far closer. But they are all run by Veolia, and they just aren't interested in public access.

If you have any scrap metal yards in the vicinity, they’ll also have weighbridges.

Ian

 

[68c]

Weighed my Pilote G270 A class at a gravel/ aggregates supplier. Weighed three times, individual axles and total. Empty, no driver, no water but full fuel it came out at 3050kg total but 2950Kg sum of the axles. Operator said tolerance was 25Kg and that weighing individual axles less accurate as some side load on the scales and van sloping. Van plated by Pilote at 3,400Kg, then upgraded to 3,700Kg by previous owner. Having lost my C licence I downgraded to 3,500Kg. The full fuel is around 50Kg so I believe I fit under the 3050Kg empty weight for speed limit purposes.
Oh, picked up a puncture there as they did not keep a tidy site so be careful at scrapyards.

 

[SpeedyDux]

No. All the council weigh stations around here are a pain in the butt. They are supposed to be open to the public, but they seem to use the weigh tables as extra staff parking spaces, so they're never available when we've tried.

But it's just two of us and we have to pack light as there's no garage. With a spreadsheet and a lot of safety margin, I still think I've got 150kg spare.

The nearest local authority weighbridge has a safety rule that all drivers must wear boots/shoes with steel toecaps. I don't own compliant footwear.

I am relying on the manufacturer's MIRO figure (2795 Kg +/- 5%) in the brochure (Rapido). That gives me a starting point of roughly 705Kg of user payload, on paper. Next, I deducted the weight of these optional extras:

Van Pack - not stated but (est) 10 Kg
ComfortMatic gearbox 15Kg
ESP + Traction control 1 Kg
Parking sensors (nil)
150 HP engine upgrade 20 Kg
Truma Combi D 2Kg
Side door flyscreen 4Kg
Carpets 8 Kg
Fiamma awning F65S 320 27.5Kg

TOTAL (est.) weight of optional extras = 87.5Kg. Which leaves me with 617.5Kg user payload. Should be enough for 2 occupants.

NB the van came with a fiddly kit, including an extra cushion and frame, for making up a 3rd bed using the dinette bench seat. That kit is now stored in my house, saving a little bit of weight. 5Kg? Haven't weighed it.

 

[SpeedyDux]

The other point raised in this thread concerns the different PVC lengths and their MIROs. A longer base van means more heavy steel bodywork, and more internal conversion furniture and fittings. That adds significant weight. Again relying on brochure numbers, the differences appear to be:

Between a 5.4m Ducato van and 5.99m Ducato van = 130Kg heavier

Between a 5.4m Ducato van and 6.36m Ducato van = 280Kg heavier

Between a 5.99m Ducato van and 6.36m Ducato van = 150Kg heavier

[These are Rapido's numbers and apply only to their Van range based on the X290 Ducato 2.6m high top. Other PVC converters could produce different weights for longer vans depending on base vehicle, layout, standard equipment, and materials used. ]

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[roadwarrior]

interesting that the current new version of my Winchcombe is now 4100K as standard, where as it was 3800k with a 600+k payload - lord only knows what they have put in to make them factory uprate it - i can only percieve they are being honest - unlike Autot***l

 

[cyberyacht]

As I have said on previous similar threads, I can just run my 6.4m Carthago Compactline at 3500Kg. That includes full fuel,2 full Safefill lightweight gas bottles, 100L water, 2 eBikes(40Kg),2x 120Ah lithiums, spare tyre, food, bedding, clothes, miscellaneous blocks, cables etc. and 2 lightish people. When we collected the van the empty weight + the two of us was 2960Kg. So basically any van travelling two up will need 500Kg of payload as a minimum.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Well here's a misnomer, we live in Weybridge and checked for our local Weigh bridges on line, here's Surrey statement.

Surrey​

There are currently no public weighbridges in Surrey.

The following weighbridges are located in nearby authorities:

• Solent Body Builders & Repairs, 4 Cockerell Close, Segensworth West, Fareham, Hampshire, PO15 5SR
• Longshot Lane Recycling Centre, Longshot Lane, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1RL
• Geo Richardson Ltd, Hurst Works, Cuckfield Road, Goddards Green, Burgess Hill, West Sussex, BN6 9LQ

So it needs to be renamed as NO Weybridges!!
Mike.

 

[starquake]

Worth mentioning although the Ford Chassis Baileys have poor payload, the generation prior did not on the Peugeot chassis. Ours comes with a Factory 8-900Kg payload and when we (Public) weightbridged it with us in it after purchase, dog, full food and water load it came to about 300Kg below the max 3500Kg the chassis allowed, and thats after our post-purchase mods. I would think any van based on a Ford automatic chassis would struggle to give a meaningful payload, and thus same is true of many manufacturers using a Ford base chassis. We decided as we both have a manual license to just swap back from our years of driving automatics and drive a manual motorhome for in part, the additional payload it gains.

And I agree with the comment above that Rapido are seriously nice vans, our friends have one and although their model is not suited for us (I couldn't fit in the bed as it's too short!) it is however a seriously well built PVC design on theirs.

 

[Clive Mott]

If you want good payload with a 3500kg plated vehicle then chose a hob and grille, and not an oven, chose air heating and not the premium Alde, choose a front wheel drive with a 4 cylinder engine and manual gearbox and not a beautiful
rear wheel drive Merc auto with the 3 litre V6. Dont have any levelling jacks fitted. Dont carry a spare wheel. Dont carry water, Then there is the wife!!!

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[ligrainger]

I'd suggest your relative should take their C1 licence and then buy a proper motorhome.

Anything plated at 3500kg is unlikely to have the 400kg payload needed for two people.

We own a Hymer Exsis T 414 and is plated at 3500 with a payload in excess of 600kg. That includes a full oven, awning spare wheel etc

 

[Miggs]

In a moment of madness I bought a Benimar a while back. It was a 4 berth 4 seat belt 463. My wife and I took it to a weighbridge with negligible contents loaded. Half a tank of diesel and water, couple of chairs and a table and we were bang on 3500kg!
Absolutely useless. That and horrendous build quality meant it soon went to some other poor sod!

 

[Coolcats]

Do you know what your actual, as opposed to claimed, payload is?

Ian

Yes get your van and place it on a weigh bridge, we did this fully loaded with 110!litres of fuel 100 litres of water food for two weeks, clothes and equipment and were pleased to see we had more than enough capacity. But then again we travel fairly light no suitcases of clothes and no more than you could place in motorbike panniers. Our Hymer is 5.4 mtrs long and there is only two of us.

 

[L' Hobo]

Well here's a misnomer, we live in Weybridge and checked for our local Weigh bridges on line, here's Surrey statement.

Surrey​

There are currently no public weighbridges in Surrey.

The following weighbridges are located in nearby authorities:

• Solent Body Builders & Repairs, 4 Cockerell Close, Segensworth West, Fareham, Hampshire, PO15 5SR
• Longshot Lane Recycling Centre, Longshot Lane, Bracknell, Berkshire RG12 1RL
• Geo Richardson Ltd, Hurst Works, Cuckfield Road, Goddards Green, Burgess Hill, West Sussex, BN6 9LQ

So it needs to be renamed as NO Weybridges!!
Mike.

When I lived there until 10yrs ago, there was weight bridges at the Council yards behind Sandown Park, at Esher.
Ripley, on the OLD A3 and the recycling depot near Hersham Station. Hope this helps?

 

[ligrainger]

In a moment of madness I bought a Benimar a while back. It was a 4 berth 4 seat belt 463. My wife and I took it to a weighbridge with negligible contents loaded. Half a tank of diesel and water, couple of chairs and a table and we were bang on 3500kg!
Absolutely useless. That and horrendous build quality meant it soon went to some other poor sod!

We used to have a Benimar 382 having packed it for travel with 2 people and 1 small dog all the usual extras the weight when weighed came in at 3400 so we changed to our current model much better payload.

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[L' Hobo]

It must be remembered, that some (if not most) MOT stations that are big enough to weigh commercial vehicles like M/H's, have weight scales in their rolling roads.
They will, usually, not issue certificates but could, possibly, tell you your weight if you were prepared to pay for a MOT?
Asking costs nothing?

 

[Katies-travels]

I know that there are a few brands that generally don’t fare well when it comes to payload, particularly if plated at 3500Kg.

Any views on how Rapido fare on this front (I have a relative considering one)?

Ian

Payload is very low we changed to Chausson

 

[Clive Mott]

And alugas bottles of course.

 

[Lenny HB]

As I have said on previous similar threads, I can just run my 6.4m Carthago Compactline at 3500Kg. That includes full fuel,2 full Safefill lightweight gas bottles, 100L water, 2 eBikes(40Kg),2x 120Ah lithiums, spare tyre, food, bedding, clothes, miscellaneous blocks, cables etc. and 2 lightish people. When we collected the van the empty weight + the two of us was 2960Kg. So basically any van travelling two up will need 500Kg of payload as a minimum.

Problem is they keep going up in weight, when they first bought out the new model I think it was 2021 they bosted about weight saving and it was 25 kg lighter.
2024 models have gained 60kg over 2023 models and since 2023 models you can only have the 180 engine with auto gearbox that's another 55kg so that's 115kg heavier in 2 years.

The reason the 180 with auto is so much heavier is they have upgraded the Fiat running gear it now has the larger brakes, wheels and other bits from the maxi chassis.

 

[RV72 SAM 🏴]

I wouldn't say any maker is worse than any other. In reality any modern van plated at 3.5t has the potential to have a tiny payload. And only the forecourt weight will tell you for sure.

Jim, have you heard about the Cathago payload problem???

A pal of mine bort his 3,500t C-tourer back in 2018 from NEC from Go-European in Cannock, and has just been told he has potentially been told his particular model is plated wrong
He's had to strip it back to standard without anything on board, Including fuel, water etc and then dropped it off to be weighed outcome 3,250t. Only 6 were sold of same model from Cannock, all being told need to up plate now to be legal !
He's still in negotiations with Carthago on what his option's are, he's so annoyed as you can imagine.
Potentially it will require new wheel's and tyre's, air bag's on rear at least to be re-plated to 3,650t which I'm assuming they will cover the cost !
Although let's say he doesn't want to up-plate but may not have a choice It will cost him £40k to swap to a current like for like model, and that's him getting the full price he paid for it 5 year's ago - What do you think of this situation Jim???

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[TrudeandDall]

I know that there are a few brands that generally don’t fare well when it comes to payload, particularly if plated at 3500Kg.

Any views on how Rapido fare on this front (I have a relative considering one)?

Ian

Pretty much everybody has responded in terms of gross weight. But another factor to get right are axle weights. If you are close to or just overloaded at 3.5t then you may also be overweight on the individual axles. I see many a MOHO with a significant overhang at the rear and a large garage way behind the rear axle. Which looks like there will be a lot of weight on the rear axle. Compare that with a PVC which has little rear overhang - essentially a wheel almost on each corner of the van.
As a pro driver for 30+ years keeping axle weights correct was just as important as gross weights. The one time I was done for overloading, was was pulling a "trunk" trailer that I had not loaded and which was under the 38t gross, but (just) overweight on the drive axle of the tractor unit.
If your van is over on the gross weight and has an axel overloaded as well, I doubt if the enforcement people would let you go Scott free..

 

[stv2000]

After going to a talk on UpPlating at VanLife Festival (Elvington) it was a no-brainer for me! I had spent a tonne of time researching and hesitating previously. But when the guy said that 90% of Motorhomes and vans pulled over for a weight check were OVERWEIGHT it opened my eyes. I stopped at an industrial estate on the way home and found a company with a weighbridge. I was 80 kgs over my 3500 kgs and nowhere near fully loaded (water n diesel + bikes etc).
So contacted VanWeightEngineering to UpPlate. Easy process and brilliant service and it pays for itself in 2/3 years as your road tax goes down to £165 per year........ now have 1950 kg payload without modifications. Just a paperwork exercise. Like I say a NO-BRAINER.

 

[Brains]

We own a Hymer Exsis T 414 and is plated at 3500 with a payload in excess of 600kg. That includes a full oven, awning spare wheel etc

Have you taken it onto a weighbridge when full loaded in holiday mode ?

We have a Hymer MLT 570 and have less than 100kg spare in full holiday mode (only 25 litres of water)
We are plated at 3,900kg.
A full water tank, and a case of duty free would put us over the limit

 

[chris McKenny]

I know that there are a few brands that generally don’t fare well when it comes to payload, particularly if plated at 3500Kg.

Any views on how Rapido fare on this front (I have a relative considering one)?

Ian

Hello , from my experience when buying our last A class new , the higher the spec the less your payload , do you really need all those nice looking lights , outside shower , oven ( we did nor need oven use air fryer ) Rapido brochures if buying new show what all the extras weigh ,surprising how they add up , our experience was that with a 7 m+ van you will struggle to keep to 3500 kgs ,have to constantly watch water and fuel , spare tyre 24 kgs , ? That is why they give you a kit and no spare ! We have downsized to a 3500 Rapido V68 van , surprising how much gear we ditched as not required / but nice to have when clearing out old van .Have fun.

I know that there are a few brands that generally don’t fare well when it comes to payload, particularly if plated at 3500Kg.

Any views on how Rapido fare on this front (I have a relative considering one)?

Ian

 

[bigtwin]

Yes get your van and place it on a weigh bridge, we did this fully loaded with 110!litres of fuel 100 litres of water food for two weeks, clothes and equipment and were pleased to see we had more than enough capacity. But then again we travel fairly light no suitcases of clothes and no more than you could place in motorbike panniers. Our Hymer is 5.4 mtrs long and there is only two of us.

Yes, I’ve done it many times; I was asking if Guigsy had verified his actual payload (versus the stated claimed payload) and he confirmed that, as yet, he hadnt.

Ian

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[bigtwin]

We own a Hymer Exsis T 414 and is plated at 3500 with a payload in excess of 600kg. That includes a full oven, awning spare wheel etc

Is that an ACTUAL, or a claimed payload of 600Kg?

Jim, have you heard about the Cathago payload problem???

A pal of mine bort his 3,500t C-tourer back in 2018 from NEC from Go-European in Cannock, and has just been told he has potentially been told his particular model is plated wrong
He's had to strip it back to standard without anything on board, Including fuel, water etc and then dropped it off to be weighed outcome 3,250t. Only 6 were sold of same model from Cannock, all being told need to up plate now to be legal !
He's still in negotiations with Carthago on what his option's are, he's so annoyed as you can imagine.
Potentially it will require new wheel's and tyre's, air bag's on rear at least to be re-plated to 3,650t which I'm assuming they will cover the cost !
Although let's say he doesn't want to up-plate but may not have a choice It will cost him £40k to swap to a current like for like model, and that's him getting the full price he paid for it 5 year's ago - What do you think of this situation Jim???

Jim is aware of the situation and started a thread on the issue some weeks ago. He even wrote to Carthago about the issue.

Ian