What is it with merging traffic?

[glenn2926]

Lorries manage lane changing without difficulty. It is not down to the individual, good slip road etiquette involves all drivers in all lanes. All 1-2-3-4 lanes should be aware of the vehicles joining the motorway. All lanes should adjust speed and lane changes to allow for vehicles joining and changing lanes. This common sense is of course destroyed by uninformed inexperienced selfish drivers of BMWs and Audi's doing 80+mph in the outside lane who are probably not even aware of the slip road or anything else that is going on in the other three lanes...
Many drivers are absolute thick selfish josser's.

Vehicles already on the main carriageway should not have to alter their speed or direction for vehicles joining. I was taught this is the case for all junctions.
Maybe the Highway Code has changed since then but I doubt it.
I really struggle to understand what is difficult for some so called experienced drivers to understand. The rule is simple, give way to vehicles already on the main carriageway.

 

[Jake Royd]

Thank you for all your replies.
Having said all we have I still find with the motorhome I am 'on alert' when approaching a slip road in lane 1.

Apart from this frustration the rest of motorway driving is easy. You just amble along driving steadily but warily.
Having said that ambling for me means 60-65mph.

 

[gus-lopez]

I regularly see trucks on the motorway travelling ten feet or less apart.

slipstream ,fuel consumption.

What is the correct protocol? Drive up behind them flashing headlights and beeping the horn or undertake?

Just continue in the lane you are in.

Always a danger sign for me, as is a baseball cap or hoodie (particularly if cap is on backwards). I make an exception for open top vehicles. Hoodie on backwards is a red alert.

yes, worrying isn't it.

I wouldn't want to explain to my insurance company after being involved in an accident that I was only passing on the left and that the RAC said it was OK.

YMMV

Graydo

I'd have already had to explain to court why I'd beaten the other driver to death so having got a not guilty there I wouldn't expect any problems from the insurance scum.

Make sure your camera is pointing in the right direction and working, if you haven't got one god help you.

I didn't realise that you were so awash with money that you don't mind losing your NCD, others may not see things the same way.

Proper insurance companies like they used to be in the Uk but are no longer, but are still found in other countries like my spanish one, insure a vehicle & pay out in the event of a claim. & it is always the other drivers fault so no loss. premium rarely goes up either.

Mr knob head would no doubt trundle off up the carriageway totally obilivious, having ruined innocent people's lives already on the carriageway.

Yes as I explained to my girls when they were learning if it comes down to it always hit the one that is moving/causing the incident. You can argue with them.

 

[buttons]

Vehicles already on the main carriageway should not have to alter their speed or direction for vehicles joining. I was taught this is the case for all junctions.
Maybe the Highway Code has changed since then but I doubt it.
I really struggle to understand what is difficult for some so called experienced drivers to understand. The rule is simple, give way to vehicles already on the main carriageway.

You must end up stationary at the end of the slip road waiting for a space or someone to give way, making joining the motorway a hazard to all.

 

[glenn2926]

You must end up stationary at the end of the slip road waiting for a space or someone to give way, making joining the motorway a hazard to all.

No, I just start looking where to slot into lane 1 as soon as possible and adjust my speed to ensure I can join without causing any traffic already on the motorway to change speed or direction.
Sort of, you know, like you’re supposed to.

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[Silver-Fox]

I’m thinking that any other occupants in that car are entirely innocent of the driver’s actions,

Absolutely all the more reason, if adults, to choose carefully who they travel with.

 

[buttons]

No, I just start looking where to slot into lane 1 as soon as possible and adjust my speed to ensure I can join without causing any traffic already on the motorway to change speed or direction.
Sort of, you know, like you’re supposed to.

M1 junc 5 south 7am you have no chance. You would still be there at lunch time...

 

[glenn2926]

M1 junc 5 south 7am you have no chance. You would still be there at lunch time...

Luckily I live a lot further North. Our motorways are not THAT crowded. Still, it doesn’t matter how many times you say it, it is and always should be the driver wishing to join the main road that has to wait for space to do so.

 

[kevenh]

tl;dr
Traffic joining a dual carriage way or motorway should match & merge with traffic already on that road.
But traffic on the m-way or DC would be best to adjust for those drivers that can't do the above - just to avoid being in the right but in an accident

 

[tonyidle]

Luckily I live a lot further North. Our motorways are not THAT crowded. Still, it doesn’t matter how many times you say it, it is and always should be the driver wishing to join the main road that has to wait for space to do so.

Strange how common courtesy and a bit of give & take is an alien concept to many drivers.

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[tony_g]

Yeah not good merging But not very good driving from the lorry either. Speed never alters till he hits the car. If it had been me I would have been off the throttle as I saw it trundling to the end of the slip road and certainly been on the brakes before I rammed in to the side of it . He never even lifts till hes in the side of the car

Quite so! Obvious the idiot in the car was coming out, whatever. Other driver obliged to avoid collision. Right of way totally irrelevant.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Quite so! Obvious the idiot in the car was coming out, whatever. Other driver obliged to avoid collision. Right of way totally irrelevant.

Yeah the lorry driver should have hit the “ jump over the car” button ?

Or maybe squeezed the over taking car into the Armco ?

The speed the car was going it appeared he was going to wait at the end of the lay-by.

 

[Kingham]

If I saw that the hard shoulder was already occupied do you think I would leave it till the last minute to see if the numpty was going to brake before having to use the hard shoulder?....No. mind you, if that scenario where to ever occur would'nt you think that the driver would already have looked in his mirror to see if his path onto the carriageway was clear assuming he had spotted the hard shoulder was occupied? I would hope that passengers may also alert the driver to his stupidity. I think my post may have come across as a little bit pre meditated.

The reality is that if you are loaded with freight or even empty, and traffic is up your arse, the chances of causing an accident by braking to let some knob out off the slip is far greater than the said knob head running up the slip road and crashing.

And as my post already stated, if a vehicle on the carriageway did brake to let knob head out, and an accident ensued behind, Mr knob head would no doubt trundle off up the carriageway totally obilivious, having ruined innocent people's lives already on the carriageway.

A truck, loaded or empty, just won't stop like a car but car drivers in general don't think that way and will cut in leaving you no braking distance whatsoever.

I'm afraid your scenario still points to the car driver on the slip road still being an idiot but that's jut my opinion based on my experiences.

It did come over as premeditated, but part of my scenario also involved your attention being focused on you keeping the car blocked, when you could have eased off slightly and let them out, when at the same time a stricken vehicle on the main carriageway may also be heading for the sanctuary of the hard shoulder, where you’re forcing the car ‘in a cloud of dust’ I think were your words.
Highly unlikely to happen, but could, so I’m offering a different perspective from a road safety slant.
Drive as you wish... I know I do.

 

[glenn2926]

Strange how common courtesy and a bit of give & take is an alien concept to many drivers.

Isn’t it just. Like vehicles trying to force their way out of junctions when common courtesy would be to wait for a gap. Just expecting those already travelling on the road to basically drive for them.

 

[Vipar]

Absolutely. Which is why I stressed anticipation earlier & talked about easing off, not braking. If I have to use brakes on a motorway then either I or someone else has made a serious error of judgement. Leaving aside a lorry having to control speed on a downhill run.

Question for the wagon drivers - does using the exhaust brake (which if I understand it is a form of enhanced engine braking) put the brake lights on?

No it just closes part of the exhaust outlets But very efficient

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[Vipar]

#95 Oh yes I have

 

[Vipar]

#95 30 years on hgv's down to Greece Bulgaria Germany France Belgium Holland Poland and Yugoslavia as it was. Never had an accident. 56 years driving in total so far??

 

[tonyidle]

Isn’t it just. Like vehicles trying to force their way out of junctions when common courtesy would be to wait for a gap. Just expecting those already travelling on the road to basically drive for them.

This discussion just seems to be an argument for the sake of arguing. Obviously traffic entering from a slip road should not cause danger or inconvenience to traffic already on the motorway. I don't believe anyone has suggested otherwise. Common courtesy or considerate driving by motorists already on the motorway would mean that they should offer help, where they can, to allow easy entry from the slip road. A car travelling down the slip road should be travelling at, say, 60 mph so that it doesn't cause motorway traffic to slow when entering a gap. I've been on both sides of the operation, as we all have, and have regularly been prevented from joining the motorway from a slip road by a line of vehicles travelling too close to each other or by a vehicle or vehicles not moving into lane 2 when they could do so at no inconvenience to anyone. I've also had vehicles push in front (and alongside) of me from a slip road. I don't see any difficulty in maintaining a sensible gap from the vehicle in front or moving into lane 2 (where it is safe to do so) on the approach to a slip road with traffic already moving down it.

 

[gus-lopez]

M1 junc 5 south 7am you have no chance. You would still be there at lunch time...

& on the M25 if you followed the " leave 2 chevrons apart" info no one would ever enter the motorway before it was time for them to go back home.

Isn’t it just. Like vehicles trying to force their way out of junctions when common courtesy would be to wait for a gap. Just expecting those already travelling on the road to basically drive for them.

trouble is on many Mways these days a gap will never appear.
I try my best to allow people in by slowing/moving over but when in the mhome the problem I have is that it only does 50 mph. Most people who you move over for or who force there way out are oblivious/too stupid to realise that it is an older vehicle without the ability to accelerate like a modern. There is nothing worse for me than to actually have to come to rest, even at a roundabout. I'm going to change gear 3 times before we've got to 25mph pulling away. I can't " merge into the mway traffic" if my top speed is slower that even the lorries? you need to remember that.

 

[2657]

This discussion just seems to be an argument for the sake of arguing. Obviously traffic entering from a slip road should not cause danger or inconvenience to traffic already on the motorway. I don't believe anyone has suggested otherwise. Common courtesy or considerate driving by motorists already on the motorway would mean that they should offer help, where they can, to allow easy entry from the slip road. A car travelling down the slip road should be travelling at, say, 60 mph so that it doesn't cause motorway traffic to slow when entering a gap. I've been on both sides of the operation, as we all have, and have regularly been prevented from joining the motorway from a slip road by a line of vehicles travelling too close to each other or by a vehicle or vehicles not moving into lane 2 when they could do so at no inconvenience to anyone. I've also had vehicles push in front (and alongside) of me from a slip road. I don't see any difficulty in maintaining a sensible gap from the vehicle in front or moving into lane 2 (where it is safe to do so) on the approach to a slip road with traffic already moving down it.

Another problem regarding sensible gaps is when a line of vehicles entering the motorway from a slip road attempt to do so 'nose to tail' and then seem surprised when there is not space for them all to merge without causing disruption.

Regarding the 'right of way' issue, on the motorways in France and Spain there are definite 'give way' signs on the slip road and it is common to see vehicles having to wait on the slip road, it also seems normal practice to move over and allow traffic to enter, when conditions are suitable obviously.

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[Dazzler1969]

Not always possible especially in heavy traffic. In essence, it's up to the vehicle joining the motorway safely. It is not up to the vehicles already on the motorway to give way, slow down, move over etc.

I totally get this, however last week I had to slow to almost a standstill whilst trying to join the M1 at junction 21. It’s a short slip road, the one from the M69 joins also but becomes the 4th lane, so in effect you are forced to join because you have traffic both sides of you and no where to go. There were 4 lorries all very very close to each other, now common sense from the drivers point would be to slow slightly and widen the space to allow joiners in, however they just trundled on with no regard. Anybody using that stretch knows the junction and how tricky it can be. They obviously have the right of way but you can see that slip joining from a fair distance, plenty of time to regulate speed or move over, I don’t think I’ve ever approached that junction without somebody coming on to the M1.
Darren

 

[tonyidle]

Another problem regarding sensible gaps is when a line of vehicles entering the motorway from a slip road attempt to do so 'nose to tail' and then seem surprised when there is not space for them all to merge without causing disruption.

In a way this is my point. Both streams of traffic, the one on the slip road and the one on the motorway, have a responsibility to ensure a safe merge. The main reasons why that doesn't happen is the inadequate gaps between vehicles on the motorway and a lack of judgement by those on the slip road, Someone earlier in the discussion mentioned it working like a zip which is an excellent analogy that can only work if there is the recommended distance between vehicles - unfortunately there rarely is - and if those attempting to enter do so one gap at a time.

 

[Paulypaul]

Trucks are limited to 56mph. Some speed limiters are set to 54, 55 or 56mph. It's not a choice that truck drivers want to be up each others arses, it's just how it is. You can back off a bit to widen the gap but you will end up right up behind another truck doing the same speed. That's why trucks infuriate car drivers with slow overtaking. It's not a driver being pig headed, it's a driver trying to get past a slower vehicle to be able to continue his journey safely without being up someone else's arsee.

"Consideration" and "give and take".... two concepts quite alien to a majority of car drivers when it comes to trucks. I don't know how many times this week alone that I have moved out into lane 2 to allow a car to join the carriageway only for them to speed up before I've even got past them leaving me in lane 2 holding up traffic behind for no other reason than the slip road car wasn't paying attention....then the cars you've held up come past wondering why you randomly moved out to lane 2 when there's nothing in lane 1.....not anymore anyway.

Car drivers perception of lorries will never change but as someone already mentioned, some lorry drivers are just as ignorant to fellow lorry drivers.

The days of courtesy and good manners on the road are long gone I'm afraid so it's just a case of self preservation.

 

[The Dotties]

#95 30 years on hgv's down to Greece Bulgaria Germany France Belgium Holland Poland and Yugoslavia as it was. Never had an accident. 56 years driving in total so far??

very much my background. Although went through Bulgaria into Turkey quite often. This included the period of the Balkan war which changed the route somewhat.
I would still take issue with your statement of brake checking a fully laden (or anything else for that matter) truck.
The accident shown in the video seems to indicate the car in L2 that hit the joining car was preventing the truck from moving out should he have wished to. I personally gave room to slow moving joiners where possible but very rarely a car.
There was a spate, not long ago, of trucks being brake checked on uphill climbs by various yoofs for a laugh on Crickley Hill in Gloucester which resulted in dangerous situations when it caused a chain reaction.

 

[EX51SSS]

I totally get this, however last week I had to slow to almost a standstill whilst trying to join the M1 at junction 21. It’s a short slip road, the one from the M69 joins also but becomes the 4th lane, so in effect you are forced to join because you have traffic both sides of you and no where to go. There were 4 lorries all very very close to each other, now common sense from the drivers point would be to slow slightly and widen the space to allow joiners in, however they just trundled on with no regard. Anybody using that stretch knows the junction and how tricky it can be. They obviously have the right of way but you can see that slip joining from a fair distance, plenty of time to regulate speed or move over, I don’t think I’ve ever approached that junction without somebody coming on to the M1.
Darren

I understand that too but you're expecting the wagons to brake, slow down so you can merge which I appreciate but that isn't always possible to do that safely. You're aware of the junction and therefore adapt your driving to the situation and not expect the wagons to give way . In the highway code (can't remember the exact quote) but join without causing traffic to brake, swerve or change direction. I know what you mean but obey the rules and don't expect others to for your benefit. As seen previously on this thread, it is dangerous driving and if they brake (up to 44 tonnes) it could put them in the position of breaking the law. I'm not having a go at you but trying to put it into perspective

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[Dazzler1969]

I understand that too but you're expecting the wagons to brake, slow down so you can merge which I appreciate but that isn't always possible to do that safely. You're aware of the junction and therefore adapt your driving to the situation and not expect the wagons to give way . In the highway code (can't remember the exact quote) but join without causing traffic to brake, swerve or change direction. I know what you mean but obey the rules and don't expect others to for your benefit. As seen previously on this thread, it is dangerous driving and if they brake (up to 44 tonnes) it could put them in the position of breaking the law. I'm not having a go at you but trying to put it into perspective

I’m not taking any offence, in my 30 years of using that junction I’ve never had an issue, it jumped out at me cause of the closeness of the lorries, in reality the junction needs to change because of the dangers, it’s not like a traditional merging one.
My old man was a truck driver and I spent many years with him up and down the country I understand what happens when braking heavily. I certainly wouldn’t want to drag 40+ tonnes behind me in this day! Too many fools on the road, it’s bad enough with 4.2t ?

 

[buttons]

& on the M25 if you followed the " leave 2 chevrons apart" info no one would ever enter the motorway before it was time for them to go back home.

trouble is on many Mways these days a gap will never appear.
I try my best to allow people in by slowing/moving over but when in the mhome the problem I have is that it only does 50 mph. Most people who you move over for or who force there way out are oblivious/too stupid to realise that it is an older vehicle without the ability to accelerate like a modern. There is nothing worse for me than to actually have to come to rest, even at a roundabout. I'm going to change gear 3 times before we've got to 25mph pulling away. I can't " merge into the mway traffic" if my top speed is slower that even the lorries? you need to remember that.

Following the written rules is a wonderful concept, probably devised by non drivers or pen pushers who have little or no common sence. Bit like all these lines that have appeared on roundabouts that make little sense when new let alone when they start to fade.
Going back to joining motorways, it just requires a little leveraged when joining just to get the gap wide enough for you to fit in...

 

[EX51SSS]

I’m not taking any offence, in my 30 years of using that junction I’ve never had an issue, it jumped out at me cause of the closeness of the lorries, in reality the junction needs to change because of the dangers, it’s not like a traditional merging one.
My old man was a truck driver and I spent many years with him up and down the country I understand what happens when braking heavily. I certainly wouldn’t want to drag 40+ tonnes behind me in this day! Too many fools on the road, it’s bad enough with 4.2t ?

I've done many years doing it in my truck and believe me, junctions and merging can be nightmares.

 

[EX51SSS]

Following the written rules is a wonderful concept, probably devised by non drivers or pen pushers who have little or no common sence. Bit like all these lines that have appeared on roundabouts that make little sense when new let alone when they start to fade.
Going back to joining motorways, it just requires a little leveraged when joining just to get the gap wide enough for you to fit in...

Yeah nicely between 2 hgvs. Lots have dash cams now so good luck with that

 

[The Flute]

Yeah the lorry driver should have hit the “ jump over the car” button ?

Or maybe squeezed the over taking car into the Armco ?

The speed the car was going it appeared he was going to wait at the end of the lay-by.

Well no but he should have been at least off the throttle and braking BEFORE he slams into the back of it. He never evens slows down.

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